Telkom bashers meet their cybermole

[Kalvaer]

Well, I think that is what it has become.

Which part... The bashing telkom.. or no clue...

Bashing telkom I can understand after years of frustration, It is also the only thing one can do since we have no other option (I can understand your point of deregulation, but where did that get us with the Cell phone companies??)

Telkom was put into the position they are now by the goverment, I see ICASA there to try fix that mistake. I also do not think Telkom will drop ADSL, and I also do not think ICASA will force a full removal of line rental. As I have said before. It is all a game of poker, one bluff after another to see who folds first, if nobody folds its time to throw your cards on the table and show where you stand. That time has now come for Telkom!

As to not having a clue.. I dont understand how somebody could have a clue a few years ago, and suddenly not have a clue now, There may be a few more new people, and granted I am one of the "newer" people in terms of the time the forums have been going. That does not mean everyone who started this all suddenly have no clue?

 

[Karnaugh]

Go with the first option.

I dont think ICASA is trying to fix that mistake - the minister of coms holds that card.

 

[nOhIwAy]

Karnaugh,

I think you should answer one question (and another) :

Do you agree that ADSL should be split into TWO portions ??

Portion 1. Line Rental of which Telkom receives 100%

Portion 2. ISP service charges. (of which Telkom receives 70%)

Could you give some examples in other countries where ADSL
is charged to the customer in TWO portions.

Perhaps we could debate this step by step.

 

[RoosTa]

Karnaugh,

I think you should answer one question (and another) :

Do you agree that ADSL should be split into TWO portions ??

Portion 1. Line Rental of which Telkom receives 100%

Portion 2. ISP service charges. (of which Telkom receives 70%)

Could you give some examples in other countries where ADSL
is charged to the customer in TWO portions.

Perhaps we could debate this step by step.

I think you're missing the point, what Karnaugh is saying is that MyADSL has been directing their fire at Telkom, instead MyADSL should be focusing on the DoC to open the market. I agree with this.

BUT; This ICASA report is a short-term temporary solution and it is ICASA's JOB to defend the public. The MoC is obviously not interested in solving the problem and Telkom needs to be put back into place. Telkom was given the opportunity, but they screwed it up. Telkom has proven that it is not a responsible company and that they have not brought their end of the bargain.

Now my question is, how can MyADSL go through the official channels to challenge the DoC?

 

[Kalvaer]

Go with the first option.

I dont think ICASA is trying to fix that mistake - the minister of coms holds that card.

Well you have to agree that she has not done a single thing up to this point and it is a natural reaction to believe that she will continue to ignore this fact.

At least now the ICASA findings have opened up a bees nest that Telkom were hoping to keep hiden away. We as the public fought long and hard for what ICASA has done and we need to back them now. The Political parties joining in and standing by ICASA is something that I never expected but is just what is needed to force our wonderful MOC to get off her fat rear end and realise that the free ride is over and she needs to get some work done.

Just as Telkom must realise or else they would not of made such rash press releases with out thinking of what might happen. They have been getting away with murder for far too long,Doing what they want, when they want without anyone doing anything about it. Maybe they have become so relaxed in their gravy train that this sudden change has left them shaking in their boots (at least I hope so).

Which as others have said could be why Telkom took the hearings as one of those things that happen and could be ignored as they always get their way. This was not the case due to the efforts of so many people here!

Telkoms days of terrony <sp?> need to end and end now

 

[bwana]

. . . instead MyADSL should be focusing on the DoC to open the market. I agree with this.

Why limit our resources to a single pronged attack?

 

[Celemasiko]

Challenging the DoC will be another task, then challenging Telkom. I have to admit is nice to give bashings to Telkom..., but what if Telkom is acting on higher order? Telkom might be viewed as a private company, but to me they are still a parastatal...

 

[Karnaugh]

You're alive!

 

[Karnaugh]

BUT; This ICASA report is a short-term temporary solution and it is ICASA's JOB to defend the public.

Hmmm, a sort-term temporary solution with long term negative effects in my oppinion.

 

[ettubrute]

but to me they are still a parastatal...

Quite right! The government still owns most of the shares, isn't it? So they won't play hardball against Telkom: just the other day they received a bonus of R9+ per share to refill the gold chest...

 

[ebis]

I agree with challenging the DoC... after all, they are the ones who ultimately hold the power in really fixing the telecoms crisis we are in. The unbundling of the local loop, the SAT3 cable, etc... it is the DoC that can make decisions regading these issues.

The only way to bring power back to the consumers (thus, away from Telkom) is through increased competition in this industry. That way, even if Telkom offers their crappy services, we will be able to choose another service provider who offers a better offer. That is what can be done through rapid liberalisation, NOT the "managed liberalisation" as stated by Poison Ivy. As you can see, it ultimately comes back to Poision Ivy. She's the real problem here. Yes, Telkom is also to blame. However, it is as a result of Poison Ivy's incompetence that Telkom is being allowed to do what it is doing.

I find it unacceptable that Poison Ivy hasn't made even the slightest of remarks regarding the recent headlines relating the ICASA-TELKOM debacle. In other industries, the relevant minister would have definitely said something by now. Look at the SAA strike that was causing such a scene... the minister of labour intervened. Why is it that Poison Ivy is SO relaxed, unproactive and mute in THIS industry??? I believe it's because not much focus has been put on HER. All the attention is simply going to Telkom.

Come on, we ALL know she's incompetent. While BASHING Telkom, why don't we also go for her!!!!!!

 

[RoosTa]

I'm not saying that we shouldn't of complained to ICASA - this is a battle won, but the war is far from over. Now our stance should change from Telkom bashing to : "Lets work together and fix this problem". We now have proof that Telkom's situation is unhealthy. If the MoC won't listen, we go straight to the President. Publicity to Telkom is a speed hump, negative publicity towards the government might actually change things. We need to expose the bad apples and force the president to do something about it, similar to Jakob Zuma/Shabir Shaik. Now that we have the ammo, we should start bombaring the right targets.

 

[Kalvaer]

I think we all agree competition is needed put what is to going to stop the SNO from just charging the same prices as telkom, IE ADSL Line Rental, Phone Rental, ISP charges, etc.

You can not expect them to come into the scene and do that. For that we need regulation before they arrive, so that they have a bases on which to work from.

If I'm the only Apple sales man in my area and I buy apples for 50c, since I'm the only one I can sell them for R5 and get away with it.
Now a new Sales man arrives and also gets his apples for 50c but sells them for R4.00, I drop my price to R4.00 everyone jumps up and down and are all happy because they are all saving R1.00 and me and the other sales man are laughing all the way to the bank!

The ICASA findings need to lay the framework down and set up a reasonable working system in which BOTH telkom and the new SNO can base things. That way we will be paying R1.00 per apple and not be ripped off.

So while I agree that competition is the final result. Regulation will pave the way

 

[Soulcode]

If i am not mistaken the SNO will have to rent the lines from Telkom, right? So Telkom will just rip them off and then we are back to square one.

 

[ettubrute]

Nah. It's like antowan said on 702, they will just form a duopoly!

 

[Kalvaer]

If i am not mistaken the SNO will have to rent the lines from Telkom, right? So Telkom will just rip them off and then we are back to square one.

Thats my point. Which is why if ICASA force telkom to drop (in price or the whole stupid thing) then the New SNO will not be able to charge us line rental either or at least a line rental which is fair.

This is how I ASSUME it would more than likely work (please note this is from 2000):
http://www.telecomsportal.com/Assets_papers/LLU/Net_to_Net_DSLbizcase.pdf

 

[mccrack]

Soulcode.

I cant see the SNO laying down there own copper or renting, it's just too costly.
I'm expecting them to come in with Wireless Solutions.

ettubrute

I dont see the "duopoly" happening from the get go.

The SNO will need to attract customers off Telkom to themselves. They
will have to offer value for money products to sway consumers to change.
I think eventually they will reach a point where they stop undercutting each other but the consumer will win up until that point.

 

[Soulcode]

I dont think wireless is a real option either. Thats gonna cost quite a few zeros.
Will they even be allowed to set up any real kind of infrastructure of their own?

 

[Celemasiko]

You're alive!

still having a grace period until Monday...

 

[neio]

Sod it, I reckon we go wireless with nodes.
Put both Telkom and the Sno out of the picture, I pay my elec bill you pay yours ect and we have telecoms (data and voice )in between.