The Bitcoin Thread

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It will happen eventually, it's inevitable, but not in the very near future, I don't think, creating legislation is a slow process. Currently, only if you convert your bitcoin to Rands (or dollars or whatever) do you need to pay tax.

It can only happen up to a point. After you've, say, transferred to an offshore exchange and traded into and back out of various other cryptos, transferred to other exchanges, in and out of differing private wallets for different coins, etc, I can't see how it could possibly be tracked.
 
It can only happen up to a point. After you've, say, transferred to an offshore exchange and traded into and back out of various other cryptos, transferred to other exchanges, in and out of differing private wallets for different coins, etc, I can't see how it could possibly be tracked.

Well, when that money comes into your bank account, you still need to declare where it came from ;)
 
I'll definitely pay tax if I convert to the Rand. I guess we shall wait and see.



Not to deviate from this thread, but does using Monero really hide once's activities and bank balances? Even from SARS in future?
Yes
 
Sure, but many long term hodlers have no intention of ever moving it back to currency.

Sure, but by then it will be part of a new revenue collection system based on the blockchain.
 
Sure, but many long term hodlers have no intention of ever moving it back to currency.

Wondering if TenX card would be able substitute local debit/credit card. Would be nice.
 
re: bitmain and transactions...how long did you guys wait for confirmation of payment? in my bitmain account settings-sales order status now reads "paying/unshipped/valid" swift transfer was done on monday/uploaded proof of payment tuesday
 
It will happen eventually, it's inevitable, but not in the very near future, I don't think, creating legislation is a slow process. Currently, only if you convert your bitcoin to Rands (or dollars or whatever) do you need to pay tax.
use a new address for every transaction. Or use the same address for the same individual/company all the time.
 
Sure, but by then it will be part of a new revenue collection system based on the blockchain.

They will have to radically change their approach to revenue collection, because the only real control they would have is over the acquisition of physical, visible, assets (vehicles, property, any goods crossing a border) and granting of licenses/registrations (to trade, operate a business, deeds, etc).

My take is that there will ultimately be an "official" national government blockchain for the type of transactions that necessitate government involvement (like buying property and registering deeds, or getting a business license), which people will only transfer into when they need to make an "official" transaction, but most day to day income, commerce and wealth will be obscured in decentralised blockchains that government has no control of or insight into.

It spells the end of any kind of wealth tax and probably income tax. Governments will go back to the days of relying on tariffs and fees and duties for their revenues. Which is, funnily enough, exactly how it all used to work before income tax and central banks became a thing in the 20th century. It is also the long term death knell of the banking and monetary system as we know it.

And I have a sneaky feeling that there are secretly a lot of individuals/politicians in governments who have realised that the current debt based monetary system is unsustainable and welcome it as a way out of the ever snowballing mess, which is why governments have so far not been as rabidly anti-blockchain as one might have expected.
 
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They will have to radically change their approach to revenue collection, because the only real control they would have is over the acquisition of physical, visible, assets (vehicles, property, any goods crossing a border) and granting of licenses/registrations (to trade, operate a business, deeds, etc).

My take is that there will ultimately be an "official" national government blockchain for the type of transactions that necessitate government involvement (like buying property and registering deeds, or getting a business license), which people will only transfer into when they need to make an "official" transaction, but most day to day income, commerce and wealth will be obscured in decentralised blockchains that government has no control of or insight into.

It spells the end of any kind of wealth tax and probably income tax. Governments will go back to the days of relying on tariffs and fees and duties for their revenues. Which is, funnily enough, exactly how it all used to work before income tax and central banks became a thing in the 20th century. It is also the long term death knell of the banking and monetary system as we know it.

And I have a sneaky feeling that there are secretly a lot of individuals/politicians in governments who have realised that the current debt based monetary system is unsustainable and welcome it as a way out of the ever snowballing mess, which is why governments have so far not been as rabidly anti-blockchain as one might have expected.

I got all gooey inside reading this post. Thank you Garp . Sad thing is it will hit 3 world countries the hardest. Usually the last people to wake up and smell the coffee.
 
They will have to radically change their approach to revenue collection, because the only real control they would have is over the acquisition of physical, visible, assets (vehicles, property, any goods crossing a border) and granting of licenses/registrations (to trade, operate a business, deeds, etc).

My take is that there will ultimately be an "official" national government blockchain for the type of transactions that necessitate government involvement (like buying property and registering deeds, or getting a business license), which people will only transfer into when they need to make an "official" transaction, but most day to day income, commerce and wealth will be obscured in decentralised blockchains that government has no control of or insight into.

It spells the end of any kind of wealth tax and probably income tax. Governments will go back to the days of relying on tariffs and fees and duties for their revenues. Which is, funnily enough, exactly how it all used to work before income tax and central banks became a thing in the 20th century. It is also the long term death knell of the banking and monetary system as we know it.

And I have a sneaky feeling that there are secretly a lot of individuals/politicians in governments who have realised that the current debt based monetary system is unsustainable and welcome it as a way out of the ever snowballing mess, which is why governments have so far not been as rabidly anti-blockchain as one might have expected.

Hopefully you're right. I'm a bit worried though about Bitcoin developer's plan to settle transactions off chain? So that there's more space in a block and therefore more transaction can be done? I think this is all talk, all they want is control.

I don't know anything about bitcoin and coding and those type of things, I'm hoping to be corrected if I'm totally mistaken.

I think they want to control signatures off chain because they can, they will have the power and control to do it. Now, taking into account the current fractional reserve system, whereby banks create money out of nothing and then charge interest at the expense of the wider community, won't these Bitcoin developers who want transactions settled off chain also take advantage somehow and create more transactions or something along those lines, thereby benefiting themselves at the expense of the rest of us?
 
They will have to radically change their approach to revenue collection, because the only real control they would have is over the acquisition of physical, visible, assets (vehicles, property, any goods crossing a border) and granting of licenses/registrations (to trade, operate a business, deeds, etc).

My take is that there will ultimately be an "official" national government blockchain for the type of transactions that necessitate government involvement (like buying property and registering deeds, or getting a business license), which people will only transfer into when they need to make an "official" transaction, but most day to day income, commerce and wealth will be obscured in decentralised blockchains that government has no control of or insight into.

It spells the end of any kind of wealth tax and probably income tax. Governments will go back to the days of relying on tariffs and fees and duties for their revenues. Which is, funnily enough, exactly how it all used to work before income tax and central banks became a thing in the 20th century. It is also the long term death knell of the banking and monetary system as we know it.

And I have a sneaky feeling that there are secretly a lot of individuals/politicians in governments who have realised that the current debt based monetary system is unsustainable and welcome it as a way out of the ever snowballing mess, which is why governments have so far not been as rabidly anti-blockchain as one might have expected.

It's not that hard, do it like Dubai do it - everything is 30% more expensive... call it VAT or whatever you like. You offload revenue burden to consumers via organised business. No need for income tax as you said.
Of course it affects the poor the heaviest, but you know that's the price for progress and 'freedom'... *cough*
 
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Hopefully you're right. I'm a bit worried though about Bitcoin developer's plan to settle transactions off chain? So that there's more space in a block and therefore more transaction can be done? I think this is all talk, all they want is control.

I don't know anything about bitcoin and coding and those type of things, I'm hoping to be corrected if I'm totally mistaken.

I think they want to control signatures off chain because they can, they will have the power and control to do it. Now, taking into account the current fractional reserve system, whereby banks create money out of nothing and then charge interest at the expense of the wider community, won't these Bitcoin developers who want transactions settled off chain also take advantage somehow and create more transactions or something along those lines, thereby benefiting themselves at the expense of the rest of us?

This would have to be a third party service, if I understand it correctly, not effecting bitcoin directly and no, I don't see how it could be used to benefit someone specifically at the expense of anyone else. This reddit post might explain more:
There are two main types of off-chain transaction. Those that require trusting a third party and those that don't. An example of the former is Coinbase who holds a bunch of people's bitcoin. Transfers between their customers are instant because they can be recorded internally in their own database. The risk though is that they may disappear or freeze your balance for some reason outside your control.

The second type is a payment channel (used by streamium and in theory by the lightning network). There, an initial funding transaction happens on-chain followed by a series of payments that are held off-chain until there is a disagreement or the payment needs to be finalized. In this case there is less risk of the coins disappearing and effects can be instant but it requires a little more work and connectivity to handle the payment.

Both are ways of saving money on Bitcoin network fees and supporting smaller, more continuous transactions. For example, watching a video, paying for bandwidth or a piece of gum.

The first one is pretty well figured out while the second is in active development.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3dy6ie/what_is_an_off_blockchain_transaction/
 
What KYC level do you guys have unlocked with Luno?

I see they report to SARS but as I understand the previous myBB article on it, you only pay CGT when you cash out your BTC?

I'm toying with the idea of buying x ZAR of BTC, storing it offline (Trezor or ledger?) and forgetting about it. (couple of grand, that won't affect me if it all crashes.)
 
I'm toying with the idea of buying x ZAR of BTC, storing it offline (Trezor or ledger?) and forgetting about it. (couple of grand, that won't affect me if it all crashes.)

Its definitely a good idea, you get to move some money "offshore" which is particularly good if you have reservations of the political climate in South Africa. It also has the potential to act as a good storage like gold. A paper wallet is another cheaper option as well.
 
Anyone using FreeBitc.oin? I have signed up with a small amount for fun as has someone else I know. You earn 4.08% interest PA compounded daily for using the wallet but also get hourly rolls of the die with minimum free satoshi. Also ability to win lottery tickets and draws...
I guess they hope you'll gamble but no need to if you just need somewhere to store it. They've been around for ages it seems.
 
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Bit the bullet and finally bought my first BTC on luno.com. :o

Not a lot but even though I don't see it falling/collapsing, I do get very nervous transferring funds in from my bank account.

Seeing the value rise the whole time makes it very alluring to want to buy more, but obviously it's risk related.

I think what I'll do is assign X amount of ZAR that I'm willing to "play" with and just let it go with the flow and see what happens. I can always kick myself later if it collapsed or shot up in value.

I'm guessing quite a few of you have over 1 BTC already.

Do you guys keep your funds in your luno wallet or how do you save your BTC? I don't see any links to my private key in luno, only my public key/address.
 
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