The Bitcoin Thread

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KingBel

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Yes, of course.

The coins are never really "on your computer" they are in the blockchain.
You may have the keys to them, though.

If you mine new coins though, the blockchain size would be very small and quick to download.
Thanks. Sorry if the questions sound daft.. Very much a noob at this. :)
 

KingBel

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I think besides mining alt-coins for the 'fun' of it.. i'm gonna start buying R500 - R1000 worth of bitcoin every month... nothing that will break the bank..
 

Keeper

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I think besides mining alt-coins for the 'fun' of it.. i'm gonna start buying R500 - R1000 worth of bitcoin every month... nothing that will break the bank..
I think that's a good strategy, tbo.
It also evens out the price spikes/etc if you buy on a consistent basis (month to month)

If you see a good buying opportunity though, buy more, or if it's at an ATH, wait a little.
 

Keeper

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Looking very good so far.
I hope some of you guys managed to snap up some coins at the $500 lowpoint! :p

 

kimbo

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Hi

I am trying the crypto coin as well. I have a 7950 coming but i am just getting all sorted before that, so i mined 2 digitalcoins with my 5770 (not much i know ), sold them on cryptsy for BTC. now what do i do. Please help me
 

garp

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Avoid this like the plague.

I had .33 BTC (worth $300 at the time) - mysteriously and untraceably transferred out of my wallet (which I store encrypted) on 13 December.

I have no idea how this was possible but can only conclude I was targeted, and somehow hacked while my wallet was open on my desktop.

There is no recourse and AFAIK no way to see where it went. Kiss R3000 goodbye.
 
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Keeper

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lol, sorry for your loss... but uploading your wallet to dropbox isn't very smart. :erm:

Also, Just because your dropbox containing your private keys got hacked, doesn't mean everyone else is at risk.
Uploading your Private key to the cloud is like putting your bank PIN number online.

If you uploaded your bank PIN to your dropbox and it got hacked, and someone stole all your money, are you going to blame FNB, too?



The person who stole your 0.3 bitcoins has stolen a total of 50 bitcoins.
While that may sound a lot to you, it really isn't much in the larger scheme of things - that amount of bitcoin is generated roughly every 20 minutes.

Go look up the figure for credit card, paypal & bank account fraud.


Finally, you didn't lose "R3000" you only lost +- R500
(0.3 bitcoin * $150 which is the price of bitcoin at the time of your purchase)
 

garp

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Uploading your Private key to the cloud is like putting your bank PIN number online.
Not exactly. There's a bit of a difference between sticking your pin "online" on a publicly accessible volume vs. AES-256 encrypting a wallet and storing it in a secure online password protected space.

I have since established that my Dropbox account was not compromised, by the way. Dropbox has a log of all authorised devices and logins and there is nothing unaccounted for.

The person who stole your 0.3 bitcoins has stolen a total of 50 bitcoins.
While that may sound a lot to you, it really isn't much in the larger scheme of things - that amount of bitcoin is generated roughly every 20 minutes.
Correction - the *address* that stole my BTC only stole 50 BTC - probably whoever is doing this has multiple addresses.

But the truly scary thing about this is that nobody has a clue how this person did this. All his victims have scanned their systems and found no obvious malware. Supposedly all their wallets were protected.

It remains a mystery, and for that reason Bitcoins are as valuable to me as toilet paper, sorry. I have absolutely no way of knowing that if I buy a Bitcoin today, it won't have mysteriously been transferred to some anonymous address tomorrow.

Finally, you didn't lose "R3000" you only lost +- R500
(0.3 bitcoin * $150 which is the price of bitcoin at the time of your purchase)
I lost something worth R3000. What I paid for it is not the point. By that logic the Kruger Rands you could buy for R2000 15yrs ago are still only worth R2000? I don't think so.
 

eg2505

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couple of small questions I have:

do you need to use a temporary bitcoin address when you transfer funds into it? for security reasons?
or if you constantly use the same address could it possibly be stolen as you shown above
could it be able to set up debit orders with it? perhaps secretly?


and how safe is that as you dont need any real authorization to transfer funds into it or out of it?
or am I just being paranoid about this bitcoin and that its perfectly safe?
 

Keeper

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do you need to use a temporary bitcoin address when you transfer funds into it? for security reasons?
No... a bitcoin address is a bitcoin address.

or if you constantly use the same address could it possibly be stolen as you shown above
Different address don't mean anything if they are under the same wallet.
One wallet can contain 100 address for example, and they are all encrypted by the same password. You can have 100 different wallets with different passwords though if you choose.

Different wallets would help you though - I mean, you wouldn't keep all your money, say R50,000, ALL in your wallet. Same with bitcoin - you don't keep all your money in your cellphone bitcoin wallet - you can print out a paper wallet that has R45,000 and put it in a safe, and carry the R5000 in your cellphone/tablet/desktop wallet.

Paper wallets cannot be hacked.

could it be able to set up debit orders with it? perhaps secretly?
No. Nobody has control over your money except you, the owner of the private key. (the wallet)
Nobody can take your funds like a company or bank could.

and how safe is that as you dont need any real authorization to transfer funds into it or out of it?
This is the double edged sword of bitcoin. it's super liquid.
This is what makes bitcoin revolutionary - You can send R10,000,000 across the world in seconds to any address you wish. Nobody will or even can stop you.
This is also what makes bitcoin dangerous - if someone else owns the private key & password they can send R10,000,000 across the world in seconds to any address they wish.

Print a paper wallet and keep it safe - then your money will be safe. This is called a "cold wallet"/cold storage.
If you have all your money on a PC/phone/tablet it is what's know as a "hot wallet" - but it's pretty safe as long as you encrypt it (and don't have any keylogging malware on your PC obviously.)

or am I just being paranoid about this bitcoin and that its perfectly safe?
Let me tell you like this. Bitcoin is as safe as you want it to be. honestly.

I'd say here is a scale from 1 being unsafe to 10 being super safe (just my own opinion)

1. Brain wallet with weak password
2. Unknown Web wallet service or coinbase without 2 factor authentication.
3. Windows based wallet, no encryption
4. Brain wallet with medium-strong password
5. coinbase/blockchain/reputable web wallet service with 2 factor authentication.
6. Windows based wallet + encryption password
7. Paper wallet generated from a cleaned, Windows PC
8. Paper wallet generated from a licenced, fresh installed Windows PC, with no internet connection.
9. Paper wallet generated from a Linux Live DVD, with no internet connection.
10. Armory Wallet.

You don't need a B52 bomber to blow up a tank, but you also won't succeed if using a single infantry.

So if you have 0.002 bitcoins you don't need paper wallets or armory... if you have 7 or 8 you might want to start looking into it :D
 

garp

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If you have all your money on a PC/phone/tablet it is what's know as a "hot wallet" - but it's pretty safe as long as you encrypt it (and don't have any keylogging malware on your PC obviously.)
or am I just being paranoid about this bitcoin and that its perfectly safe?
Myself, and numerous others who were victims of the same bitcoin thief had encrypted wallets and cannot find any malware/keyloggers on our systems. Until we know how this happened I wouldn't recommend you buy 1c worth of BTC. You've been warned.
 

ghoti

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FAQ

Q: Bitcoin is too volatile to be used as a currency!
A: It won't always be like this, it's only because bitcoin is new and therefore has a small market cap (+- $10 Billion). Business can also choose to use BitPay, who will immediately convert and send you the cash value if you prefer, hence there is virtually no risk due to market fluctuations.
The main argument here is its not a good investment choice to put all your money into, I have not seen the argument that it cant be used as a currency.


Q: Bitcoin is a scam/Pyramid Scheme/Ponzi, only early adopters benefit from newcomers.
A: Well then Google stock, Apple stock or Microsoft stock is also a pyramid scheme. Early investors carry the risk, and therefore get the rewards. laggards do not carry any risk and therefore don't get such reward. That's just how it works unfortunately.
False and misleading. Companies like Apple, Google and Microsoft produce products that create revenue streams. So when you buy shares in their companies you get value for your shares. Bitcoins is like buying shares in a company that produces absolutely nothing.

Q: What happens when someone who owns bitcoin dies, without giving their family access to the bitcoin wallet/password?
A: Everyone else owning bitcoin becomes just a little bit richer.
How does this logic work? How does the market know if coins are been horded or how many someone owned before they died?

You should also include information that the value of bitcoins can drop to 0 tomorrow. If they find a flaw or someone finds a way to exploit the system your coins can become worthless as they have absolutely no security. And by security I mean they are not backed up by anything like fiat currencies or some type production/service ability.
 
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ghoti

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I think besides mining alt-coins for the 'fun' of it.. i'm gonna start buying R500 - R1000 worth of bitcoin every month... nothing that will break the bank..
Just remember, its more a gamble than an investment. So any money you put in, be happy to lose it if things go south.
 

[XC] Oj101

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Nobody will know if you died. Actually, nobody will even know you have the coins. Bitcoin could probably be used for money laundering pending a couple's divorce? Hmmm...
 

KingBel

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Just remember, its more a gamble than an investment. So any money you put in, be happy to lose it if things go south.
That's the plan. I do realise that it's quite volatile, so I will keep my 'investments' to a minimum monthly amount... Essentially because I don't want to be kicking myself in 2-3 years for not getting involved :)
 

Keeper

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How does this logic work? How does the market know if coins are been horded or how many someone owned before they died?
Less coins flowing in the market = smaller supply.

Lost or hoarded does the exact same thing - they're not available for purchase, and therefore drives up the price. (High Demand, Lower Supply)
A hoarder might still pop up one day and just sell out - every man has his price. lost coins though, will never resurface.

You should also include information that the value of bitcoins can drop to 0 tomorrow. If they find a flaw or someone finds a way to exploit the system your coins can become worthless as they have absolutely no security. And by security I mean they are not backed up by anything like fiat currencies or some type production/service ability.
There could be a flaw or an exploit in the protocol, sure - but after 5 years with millions/billions to be made wouldn't hackers have found one by now?
If SHA256 or any other encryption gets cracked you've got bigger problems since a lot of the web runs on it, including banks.

Here is a great video series about Encryption:

[video=youtube;lICOtR078Gw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lICOtR078Gw&list=PLB4D701646DAF0817[/video]

What are FIAT backup by, btw? The average age currencies have is only 37 years.

Excluding the early paper currencies of China up until the 15th century and the majority of paper currencies that existed in China until 1935, there are 609 currencies no longer in circulation. Of these, at least 153 were destroyed as a result of hyperinflation caused by over-issuance. The remainder were revalued, destroyed by military occupation/liberation, renamed for political reasons, or were converted to another currency. The median age for these currencies is only seventeen years.

http://www.rapidtrends.com/history-of-fiat-and-paper-money-failures/

At Least the amount of coins in bitcoin's circulation can't just be made up out of thin air and printed like monopoly money.
I think Bitcoin is more true money than paper money.
 
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eg2505

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Thanks for all his Keeper, sorry for my very noob questions, but some things are a bit unclear and the FAQ on the bitcoin site is a bit vague on some points, nothing in the finance world is quite like it, so people still need to understand a few things.

so in the poster above who lost all his money with bitcoin what did he do wrong that I should learn.
dropboxing/google drive his addresses? storing them on his pc? using an exchange site like bitx.co.za?

and what should most average people do to secure their bitcoins?
encrypt my address, or copy my address off my pc and store it as a paper form for maximum security,
(IE: write down my bitcoin address on paper and store it like a R100 note?( does such a thing even exist?).

it makes sense but I looked at my bitcoin.info and saw that everybody in the world can see how much I have in my wallet,
does that mean it can be taxed by SARS at some point in the future? and does it mean that if you know my address and know how much I have in it you can steal it?

what happens if somebody (however unlikely) types in by mistake your bitcoin address, does that person suddenly have all your money? is there any safeguards against that? or does using the barcode/QR reader make it easier.

one other thing, I noticed the multibit client only shows US$ is there a ZAR setting or can I only see that on the bitx site linked to the ZAR/US$ rate at the moment, I noticed other currencies but no ZAR?
 

milomak

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Less coins flowing in the market = smaller supply.

Lost or hoarded does the exact same thing - they're not available for purchase, and therefore drives up the price. (High Demand, Lower Supply)
A hoarder might still pop up one day and just sell out - every man has his price. lost coins though, will never resurface.
that person would have to be a significant holder of bitcoins though for their lack of activity to have a significant impact on the market. and even above that the person would have to be actively moving bitcoins because if they were previously hoarding, then the status quo just remains.
 
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