The Bitcoin Thread

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What I'm saying is there isn't a global value, each market is its own entity. The only reason prices tend to stay close to each other between markets is arbitrage.

In my last example the last trade price would be $150/BTC. That doesn't mean you'll be able to sell for that though.
 
so when BTC has a big jump, its due to somebody , somewhere buying a big chunk?

and when it drops somebody sold a big chunk of BTC then?

if Im following your analogy then?

so we actually need to check what site to see the moves?
as Bitx does have a "very confusing" marketplace thats difficult to understand completely.
 
eg2505 said:
so when BTC has a big jump, its due to somebody , somewhere buying a big chunk?

and when it drops somebody sold a big chunk of BTC then?

if Im following your analogy then?

so we actually need to check what site to see the moves?
as Bitx does have a "very confusing" marketplace thats difficult to understand completely.
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Yeah, that's called pump and dump. You have to remember everyone's out to make a profit, and for everyone that makes a profit someone makes a loss.
 
Pretty much. Shares are regulated though (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pump_and_dump has examples). Bitcoin is the real wild-west of trading (less volatile than altcoins though).

I'm not saying you can't make money, just remember you're playing a game with some pretty smart and cutthroat people.
 
It's possibly worth explaining that BitX is it's own exchange. It's quoted price is based on the last transaction between buyers and sellers on it's exchange - i.e. between its users mostly in South Africa and Asia - it is not the entire global trade of Bitcoin. The Bitcoin price you see quoted in the media is usually an average of all the many global Bitcoin exchanges. The price between the exchanges is kept more or less inline via arbitrage - i.e. traders exploit minor price differences between the exchanges for profit which naturally causes the price to adjust to the same level everywhere. But sometimes when local conditions make it harder to trade Bitcoin, there might be a price premium - e.g. the Chinese exchanges AFAIK always value it a bit higher as regulations make it harder to trade in them and demand is high. You can also simply trade Bitcoin directly by advertising using a service like localbitcoins.com - in which case, the price is whatever the two parties agree on. Finally, since the price an exchange reports is the last trade of any size, even a small fraction of a Bitcoin, this can be very skewed - e.g. if I really want to sell 0.0001BTC in a rush so I dump it at a price that would value 1BTC at $100 the latest price would reflect as $100. So there is no absolute ruling BTC price, just an agglomeration of buyers and sellers on literally dozens of exchanges and an average of what they recently traded for.
 
So bitx is not international then?

That's something i never knew before....

So is the strategy of buy low sell high worth anything here?

Or as its all automated you got no chance?
 
Ok - so I misunderstood too.

I thought if I see the price drop from $320.00 to $50.00, the local market would be effected?
So there's no value in checking the dollar value as it is meaningless?
 
eg2505 said:
So bitx is not international then?

That's something i never knew before....

So is the strategy of buy low sell high worth anything here?

Or as its all automated you got no chance?
Click to expand...

Never tried it but I did read somewhere about a few traders who made some good money on the differential with the Chinese market by selling directly on localbitcoins but I suspect there is considerable hassle as you need to be able to find a way to get paid in yuan or buyers that can send you $$ which is apparently quite tricky for them, hence the premium.
 
AthenianOwl said:
Whales eat and ****.
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True.

I lost 3.6 BTC on URO. I was lying in bed trading on the laptop and fell asleep. When I woke I took one look at the charts and panic sold. Of course another pump came a minute later, so that was it for me. I only bought .25 to start with so I took that as a sign to move on with my life. When I get in to things I tend to go pretty deep.

That's the thing about these markets, they never close.
 
In the order book when someone lists x amount at a certain price, do you have to buy that whole order at that price? It's not a part thereof type thing?

EDIT : Also notice that when I click on the order book, it adds all the below coins at the same price? For example, click on the 5,210 / 1.333 coins adds all the coins below it at 5,210. Guessing then, better to start from the bottom of the order book and work up?

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Dolby said:
In the order book when someone lists x amount at a certain price, do you have to buy that whole order at that price?
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No, the quantity available at that price will just be reduced.
 
Dolby said:
EDIT : Also notice that when I click on the order book, it adds all the below coins at the same price? For example, click on the 5,210 / 1.333 coins adds all the coins below it at 5,210. Guessing then, better to start from the bottom of the order book and work up?

View attachment 315209
Click to expand...

Okay, I see BitX changed their layout completely since the last time I logged in. I can see how it can be confusing.

The red entries in the order book are offers to sell. Think of those as people who bought BTC, added their markup, and put them up for sale.

The green entries are offers to purchase. This is the price buyers are hoping to pay. The spread in the middle is the difference between the lowest ask and the highest bid.

Buying directly from the red entries is an instant sale. Only do this if you think the price will increase by the percentage you hope to make (you're betting the price will go up by at least the spread + fees + profit).

Sellers who want to get rid of their coins (betting the market will go down) fill the green order book. The price you'll get depends on how much you sell obviously, look at the size of the bids to work out how deep down the green list you'll go.

And that's the game in general.
 
This is only in sa though?

No exposure to international market?
It can i create a wallet on blockchain.info

And it still work?

Can i then sent to bitx to change back to zars?
 
eg2505 said:
This is only in sa though?

No exposure to international market?
It can i create a wallet on blockchain.info

And it still work?

Can i then sent to bitx to change back to zars?
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Exactly.

I never traded on BitX at all, it was just the only place I could register to withdraw from. Once you have BTC you can send it wherever you want.

Edit: Just a reminder that BitX has your FICA information so SARS already knows about the income. Probably wise to declare it.
 
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dabean said:
Edit: Just a reminder that BitX has your FICA information so SARS already knows about the income. Probably wise to declare it.
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Haven't given them everything, so I'm capped to 5k a month in trades.

And btc is so hard to regulate, and evade sars
That's the whole point of it?

I'm actually suprised btc isn't illegal in sa?
Thought with the govt trying to ban skype
They'd ban this too, as its a easy way to get cash out of sa.
 
eg2505 said:
... and evade sars
That's the whole point of it?
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No, the point was to eliminate the need for banks (trusted 3rd parties) and eliminate the possibility of financial fraud. You can evade SARS by evading banks (they do know how much goes in and out) but that wasn't the goal. Anyway, whether you should pay taxes or not is a whole other thread.

That's not what it's become though. It's forum mafia crossed with cookie-clicker. Completely addictive to certain types of people.

That 3.6 BTC I lost represented 6 months of incremental gains. In order to make those gains you have to be one step ahead of more than half the other traders (you can do your own costing). For me this meant plugging into every information source I could find (forums, IRC channels, social media etc.) and trying to predict how the majority of people seeing it would react to the information. The quicker you are the higher up the profit percentile you go. It's basic game theory.

The problem is that strategy takes a lot of work, so you need to make larger bets as you go so that it's worth your time. More risk means more reward. I passed out more than fell asleep, I'd been up for 3 days. I still managed to scrape by with the bare minimum at work somehow, but my mind was never there. For it to stay worth it for me I'd need to double-down on my loss. No thanks.

As you move up the ranks of traders your actions have more influence on the market. Cryptocurrency trading tends towards whaledom ;)

Don't think that whales feed off each other any less than off the lottery players.


Edit: Read Taleb distribution and Gambler's ruin if I didn't make it clear why I quit.
 
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eg2505 said:
Haven't given them everything, so I'm capped to 5k a month in trades.

And btc is so hard to regulate, and evade sars
That's the whole point of it?

I'm actually suprised btc isn't illegal in sa?
Thought with the govt trying to ban skype
They'd ban this too, as its a easy way to get cash out of sa.
Click to expand...
The only thing they could maybe ban is your ability to easily convert BTC back to ZAR. They could never actually ban bitcoin. Any device with internet access is essentially a wallet and portal to buying BTC and the means to spend them. You'd essentially need to shut off the internet to ban bitcoin.

Edit: Sorry - maybe you just meant ban in the sense of banning it as an accepted form of currency for domestic goods and services.
 
Wouldn't all the action take place in the green?
I mean, who and why would anyone buy/sell so cheap?
Those people taking a chance?

bit.jpg
 
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