The Brexit Thread

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Tory Remainer rebels admit they could 'collapse the Government' by voting against Theresa May's Brexit deal

Tory rebels have admitted they could “collapse the Government” if they vote against Theresa May’s final Brexit deal.

Dominic Grieve, the leading Conservative Remainer, admitted he and his pro-European colleagues could end Mrs May’s premiership as a row over Parliament’s role in Brexit negotiations continued to intensify.

Mr Grieve said the potential consequences of the stand-off with the Prime Minister over a demand to allow MPs to dictate the terms of Brexit negotiations if a deal with Brussels is rejected made him “wake up at 2am in a cold sweat”.

The Remainer rebels last week pulled an amendment to the Government’s flagship Brexit legislation which would bolster the so-called “meaningful vote” on the deal and hand MPs more power because they believed they had done a compromise deal with Mrs May to secure something similar.

But the Government said it had agreed to no such thing prompting fury and accusations that Mrs May had reneged on the deal.

She set out an alternative plan which would give MPs a non-binding say on what should happen in the event Parliament rejected the Brexit deal but crucially it does not offer the ability to control negotiations.

Mrs May insisted on Sunday that she had not broken her word and had “done exactly” what she told rebels she would do.

Peers are expected to reinstate the Tory rebels’ amendment on Monday as the European Union (Withdrawal) Bill returns to the House of Lords for further scrutiny, likely setting up a showdown in the House of Commons between Mrs May and the rebels later in the week.

Mr Grieve said the group of Tory Remainers is “quite determined that the meaningful vote pledge which was given to us has got to be fulfilled” as he put himself on a collision course with the Prime Minister.

Mr Grieve admitted he and his colleagues could cause the Government to fall if they voted against Mrs May’s final Brexit deal.

He told the BBC’s Sunday Politics programme: “We could collapse the Government and I can assure you I wake up at 2am in a cold sweat thinking about the problems that we have put on our shoulders.
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Chris_the_Brit said:
Always lovely to read about a politician who actual gets it, and a youngster as well! Good that he is also having a go at the Tory traitors (Clarke, Soubry, Grieve et al.) who despite standing on the 2017 Conservative election manifesto to leave the CM and the SU, are trying to frustrate the process. Hell, Corbyn is more committed to delivering Brexit than these Tory rebels!

Tory MP, 33, eloquently sums up Brexit argument in 442-word Commons speech
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Simon Clarke: "Not giving people the terrible stupid thing they voted for because they're terrible and stupid will make them extremists."

Or, as we've seen in the USA, it will embolden those who are already extreme to make even more terrible and stupid decisions.
 
Chris_the_Brit said:
Always lovely to read about a politician who actual gets it, and a youngster as well! Good that he is also having a go at the Tory traitors (Clarke, Soubry, Grieve et al.)
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Australians aren't really renowned for making really stupid political comments, but there's always an exception.

Could you explain what makes Clarke, Soubry or Grieve a traitor?
 
Dave said:
Australians aren't really renowned for making really stupid political comments, but there's always an exception.

Could you explain what makes Clarke, Soubry or Grieve a traitor?
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Having intelligence and principles that preclude them from marching in lockstep with May'n Fuhrer.

But then, you'll find that all authoritarians resent and fear intelligence, because it's something they'll never have and thus cannot understand.
 
Chris_the_Brit said:
Always lovely to read about a politician who actual gets it, and a youngster as well! Good that he is also having a go at the Tory traitors (Clarke, Soubry, Grieve et al.) who despite standing on the 2017 Conservative election manifesto to leave the CM and the SU, are trying to frustrate the process. Hell, Corbyn is more committed to delivering Brexit than these Tory rebels!
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Grieve's constituency (which elected him) voted to Remain. He's representing that, and that makes him a traitor*?

* always healthy to call your political opponents traitors, obviously.
 
OrbitalDawn said:
Grieve's constituency (which elected him) voted to Remain. He's representing that, and that makes him a traitor*?

* always healthy to call your political opponents traitors, obviously.
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Clarke and Soubry have been staunchly remain since prior to the referendum and definitely prior to the last election. Only an idiot who is completely ignorant of the real facts would call them traitors or enemies of the people. They have held their beliefs in the face of quite unacceptable behaviour from the tabloid press and stupid brexiteers who want to portray anyone who questions Brexit or publicly supports remain as traitors or enemies.

And then other brexiteers get offended when people refer to Brexit supporters as racists, xenophobes or knuckledraggers due to the behaviour of that faction...
 
Upstanding folks.

Leave. EU faces new questions over contacts with Russia

A leader of the Leave.EU campaign suggested sending a “message of support” to the Russian ambassador after the then foreign secretary made a speech that was critical of Russia, documents seen by the Observer suggest.

The material also appears to show that Andy Wigmore, spokesman for the Leave.EU campaign and the business partner of Arron Banks, the biggest funder of Brexit, passed confidential legal documents to high-ranking officials at the Russian embassy and then denied it to parliament.

The documents related to George Cottrell, an aide to Nigel Farage who was with him on the campaign trail for Donald Trump in July 2016. Cottrell was arrested by the FBI and charged with 21 counts of money laundering, bribery and wire fraud.
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These annoying unelected scoundrels!

May Suffers Huge New Brexit Defeat As Lords Vote To Give Parliament A 'Meaningful' Say Over EU Deal

Theresa May is back on collision course with her Tory ‘Remainer rebel’ MPs after the Government suffered yet another major defeat over Brexit in the House of Lords.

In a move that leaves the Prime Minister facing her biggest Parliamentary showdown yet on the issue, peers voted by 354 to 235 to give MPs a ‘meaningful vote’ on the outcome of any final EU deal with Brussels.

After an unusually heated debate - including one Lord calling another an “idiot” - the Government suffered the landmark defeat at the hands of rebel Tories, Labour, Lib Dem and crossbench peers. The majority was a 119.
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https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/en...c-grieve-showdown_uk_5b27d2bbe4b0783ae12bbd60
 
OrbitalDawn said:
Grieve's constituency (which elected him) voted to Remain. He's representing that, and that makes him a traitor*?

* always healthy to call your political opponents traitors, obviously.
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He stood on the Conservative manifesto, dumbo. If he had huge reservations about it, he should have resigned from the party and called a by-election. But of course he didn't - he likes the gravy train too much. Just a temper tantrum because he was fired as Attorney General by May. Interesting how many other Remainer Tory MPs aren't causing any trouble. Not sure what they are even doing in the Tory party, really, besides causing trouble.
 
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f2wohf said:
These annoying unelected scoundrels!



https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/en...c-grieve-showdown_uk_5b27d2bbe4b0783ae12bbd60
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Um...that was basically predicted. See article yesterday. Now May must call on Grieve's, Clarke's and Soubry's bluff. Are they so terrified of Brexit they will let in a crypto Communist into government? On the other hand, it could allow the Moggster to become the leader of the Conservative Party and win an absolute landslide victory! :cool:

The Lords are basically making themselves irrelevant. The momentum for an elected second chamber cannot be stopped!
 
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Dave said:
Australians aren't really renowned for making really stupid political comments, but there's always an exception.

Could you explain what makes Clarke, Soubry or Grieve a traitor?
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https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/2017-manifestos/Conservative+Manifesto+2017.pdf

EU.png

Also it's very obvious that Grieve et al. aren't actually interested in a vote - they actually want want to stop Brexit in its entirety but are too wimpish to say that, as they know a whole world of pain will be coming their way.

Here's their logic:

1. Demand vote on EU deal
2. Incentive for EU to give UK worst deal possible (+ruling out no deal scenario)
3. HoC vote down the deal
4. UK remains in the EU

It's all so transparent!

As Jacob Rees-Mogg says, it is essentially 'constitutional vandalism'. The government, and not parliament, negotiates deals with other parties.
 
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Chris_the_Brit said:
https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/2017-manifestos/Conservative+Manifesto+2017.pdf

View attachment 529931

Also it's very obvious that Grieve et al. aren't actually interested in a vote - they actually want want to stop Brexit in its entirety but are too wimpish to say that, as they know a whole world of pain will be coming their way.

Here's their logic:

1. Demand vote on EU deal
2. Incentive for EU to give UK worst deal possible (+ruling out no deal scenario)
3. HoC vote down the deal
4. UK remains in the EU

It's all so transparent!

As Jacob Rees-Mogg says, it is essentially 'constitutional vandalism'. The government, and not parliament, negotiates deals with other parties.
Click to expand...

Political parties members are now all expected to speak out of one voice and sing the same song at all times.

Sounds a lot like Moscow, in the 1950s.

Should Grieve be executed?
 
f2wohf said:
Political parties members are now all expected to speak out of one voice and sing the same song at all times.

Sounds a lot like Moscow, in the 1950s.

Should Grieve be executed?
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No...he must just resign and call a by-election. But he has no balls to do that.

When one of your CENTRAL, OVERWHELMING campaign messages is to deliver on Brexit, then no, you shouldn't be able to deviate. They need to suck it up. And it's not simply that they are 'differing in views' - they are actually trying to stop Brexit. That is the COMPLETE OPPOSITE of the Tory election campaign. And then you wonder why people have such low opinions of politicians. They (Tory rebels) are too short-sighted that they (i.e. Tories) will be out of power for a generation if they don't deliver on Brexit. Lots of people switched to Tories in the last election to deliver on Brexit.
 
Chris_the_Brit said:
He stood on the Conservative manifesto, dumbo. If he had huge reservations about it, he should have resigned from the party and called a by-election. But of course he didn't - he likes the gravy train too much. Just a temper tantrum because he was fired as Attorney General by May. Interesting how many other Remainer Tory MPs aren't causing any trouble. Not sure what they are even doing in the Tory party, really, besides causing trouble.
Click to expand...

Chris_the_Brit said:
Um...that was basically predicted. See article yesterday. Now May must call on Grieve's, Clarke's and Soubry's bluff. Are they so terrified of Brexit they will let in a crypto Communist into government? On the other hand, it could allow the Moggster to become the leader of the Conservative Party and win an absolute landslide victory! :cool:

The Lords are basically making themselves irrelevant. The momentum for an elected second chamber cannot be stopped!
Click to expand...

Chris_the_Brit said:
https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/2017-manifestos/Conservative+Manifesto+2017.pdf

View attachment 529931

Also it's very obvious that Grieve et al. aren't actually interested in a vote - they actually want want to stop Brexit in its entirety but are too wimpish to say that, as they know a whole world of pain will be coming their way.

Here's their logic:

1. Demand vote on EU deal
2. Incentive for EU to give UK worst deal possible (+ruling out no deal scenario)
3. HoC vote down the deal
4. UK remains in the EU

It's all so transparent!

As Jacob Rees-Mogg says, it is essentially 'constitutional vandalism'. The government, and not parliament, negotiates deals with other parties.
Click to expand...

Chris_the_Brit said:
No...he must just resign and call a by-election. But he has no balls to do that.

When one of your CENTRAL, OVERWHELMING campaign messages is to deliver on Brexit, then no, you shouldn't be able to deviate. They need to suck it up. And it's not simply that they are 'differing in views' - they are actually trying to stop Brexit. That is the COMPLETE OPPOSITE of the Tory election campaign. And then you wonder why people have such low opinions of politicians. They (Tory rebels) are too short-sighted that they (i.e. Tories) will be out of power for a generation if they don't deliver on Brexit. Lots of people switched to Tories in the last election to deliver on Brexit.
Click to expand...

Your naivety and idiocy shines through with the rubbish you post.

Just think, Bruce, if you could organise another 2 week holiday in the UK you could become the ultimate world expert on the UK's internal affairs...
 
Chris_the_Brit said:
He stood on the Conservative manifesto, dumbo.
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Which part of the manifesto is he flouting?

Chris_the_Brit said:
If he had huge reservations about it, he should have resigned from the party and called a by-election.
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Why? You know he was elected by his electorate, not the Conservative party, right? He's accountable to them, not the Party.

They elected him, after his views were clear and the referendum was done.

Chris_the_Brit said:
Not sure what they are even doing in the Tory party, really, besides causing trouble.
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Wrong-think will be punished!
 
OrbitalDawn said:
Why? You know he was elected by his electorate, not the Conservative party, right? He's accountable to them, not the Party.
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Chris "logic":

* Brexit is the will of the people, therefore anyone who opposes Brexit is a commie traitor
* Dominic Grieve's constituency voted against Brexit, therefore Grieve is a commie traitor for representing their will

I'm really starting to get the impression that thinking isn't an activity that Brexiteers partake in... they definitely aren't capable of comprehending shades of grey.
 
The_Assimilator said:
Chris "logic":

* Brexit is the will of the people, therefore anyone who opposes Brexit is a commie traitor
* Dominic Grieve's constituency voted against Brexit, therefore Grieve is a commie traitor for representing their will

I'm really starting to get the impression that thinking isn't an activity that Brexiteers partake in... they definitely aren't capable of comprehending shades of grey.
Click to expand...

Well said, I'm glad to see you said "logic" in quotes when discussing Chris's viewpoint...
 
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