The Brexit Thread

[NarrowBandFtw]

Which is understandable if there is something in place to fill the vacuum. Currently there is nothing and there seems to be little or no plan to develop something.

For many of those things a vacuum may be an improvement rather than being burdened with unnecessary and costly regulation.
For the rest? Well sure they better be working on plans, good ones too, but there's still plenty of time left before brexit becomes a reality.

The lot who insisted on seeing such plans before Article 50 was even triggered were being unrealistic as hell though. The people voted, implement their will, simple as that. May actually did her people a disservice by triggering it after such a long delay, it should have been her first act in office really.

EDIT: and of course pig-fker Cameron is also to blame for the delay, resigned like a pansy without upholding the will of his people, pfft

 

[buka001]

For many of those things a vacuum may be an improvement rather than being burdened with unnecessary and costly regulation.
For the rest? Well sure they better be working on plans, good ones too, but there's still plenty of time left before brexit becomes a reality.

The lot who insisted on seeing such plans before Article 50 was even triggered were being unrealistic as hell though. The people voted, implement their will, simple as that. May actually did her people a disservice by triggering it after such a long delay, it should have been her first act in office really.

EDIT: and of course pig-fker Cameron is also to blame for the delay, resigned like a pansy without upholding the will of his people, pfft

The remain campaign failed miserably to highlight these issues and to ensure voters were adequately informed of these problems. They got detracted into a populist argument, where the leave campaign played on nationalistic fears.

Edit - In response to bolded statement -

I have not seen any data to suggest it will be an improvement or not (maybe there is, haven't researched this). But setting up an entirely new certification board to comply with a system already in use, which has a board already in place, seems like a creation of a middle man, which to me normally adds cost.

Its not unnecessary. The Euratom and CE marking process show just how critical and useful this processes are to the safety of products and systems. The UK nuclear body is in panic made over this issue.

An example of the whole flight safety system was also posted. Same issue here. Absolutely critical, nothing in place in UK to carry on with this. Anything that needs to be set up will cost money and take time.

With just under 2 years to go, with nothing in place, it is going to be a serious struggle to set this up, with the relevant qualified persons, systems and procedures all in place to guarantee continuity.

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

The remain campaign failed miserably to highlight these issues and to ensure voters were adequately informed of these problems. They got detracted into a populist argument, where the leave campaign played on nationalistic fears.

The ship has sailed though, both campaigns had some dodgy tactics and made pretty ridiculous claims, but that's in the past.

The people voted, Article 50 was triggered, is there any point in remainers waiting around for their opportune moment when something goes wrong to say "I told you so"?

I reckon it is high time for Brits, all Brits, to work together for the best possible outcome rather than fighting over the referendum's outcome and whether it was the right one.

 

[Dave]

For many of those things a vacuum may be an improvement rather than being burdened with unnecessary and costly regulation.

How can they be an improvement when it means produced goods can’t be exported to the majority of markets that they are now? It’s just stupid and back to the lobotomised idiocy of shouting “self determination” spouted by people without a single idea of how international commerce works.

To those wanting out of every EU area of responsibility, what happens in 2 years when the UK can’t declare CE compliance for goods?

 

[Dave]

The ship has sailed though, both campaigns had some dodgy tactics and made pretty ridiculous claims, but that's in the past.

The people voted, Article 50 was triggered, is there any point in remainers waiting around for their opportune moment when something goes wrong to say "I told you so"?

I reckon it is high time for Brits, all Brits, to work together for the best possible outcome rather than fighting over the referendum's outcome and whether it was the right one.

It’s high time for the government to slow their headlong rush to madness, to stop, take stock and agree to a second referendum putting the results of the negotiations to the electorate before jumping off the cliff.

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

How can they be an improvement when it means produced goods can’t be exported to the majority of markets that they are now? It’s just stupid and back to the lobotomised idiocy of shouting “self determination” spouted by people without a single idea of how international commerce works.

Did I say "all" or "many"? Therein lies your answer and apparent assumption ...

To those wanting out of every EU area of responsibility, what happens in 2 years when the UK can’t declare CE compliance for goods?

What makes the EU the final determinant forever more? The UK could have a parallel standard or outsource compliance duties or if there's a product line they happen to dominate the market in, plain tell the EU to gfy. There are many more possibilities other than "oh dear, guess we lose that business completely" ...

More importantly, what possible purpose does it serve to question these things when the horse has already bolted? Rather find a solution, no?

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

It’s high time for the government to slow their headlong rush to madness, to stop, take stock and agree to a second referendum putting the results of the negotiations to the electorate before jumping off the cliff.

Not. going. to. happen. Let it go, the more time you, and others like you, waste on this futile hope the less time is spent planning for the exit which is going to happen no matter how many toys you throw.

What do you value more: the best possible independent Britain? or a shiny new "I told you so" card?

 

[Dave]

What makes the EU the final determinant forever more? The UK could have a parallel standard or outsource compliance duties or if there's a product line they happen to dominate the market in, plain tell the EU to gfy. There are many more possibilities other than "oh dear, guess we lose that business completely" ...

See, you showing that hint of leaver dumbness again.

What makes the EU the final determinant? It’s their “house”, it’s their rules.

You want to go into their “house” and sell your goods you have to comply with their rules.

You don’t like their rules and won’t comply, they don’t let you in...

 

[The_Assimilator]

I reckon it is high time for Brits, all Brits, to work together for the best possible outcome rather than fighting over the referendum's outcome and whether it was the right one.

"I've shot myself in the foot, some doctors want to treat it and others say I should be left to bleed to death for being a dumba**, I'm going to sit here and bleed until they come to a consensus."

Or, or... you could not f**king shoot yourself in the foot to begin with.

Choosing to leave the EU is akin to shooting yourself in the foot, and asking all Brits to "work together" for the best possible outcome is akin to asking a doctor who thinks you're an idiot for shooting yourself, to fix you.

 

[Dave]

Not. going. to. happen. Let it go, the more time you, and others like you, waste on this futile hope the less time is spent planning for the exit which is going to happen no matter how many toys you throw.

What do you value more: the best possible independent Britain? or a shiny new "I told you so" card?

Don’t be surprised if there is a fudge or even that option, lots of talk of a plan B if it doesn’t go to plan. Some local commentators are even saying it’s May’s plan to feck it up as badly as possible to turn around at the 11th hour and so “this is impossible and not in Britain’s interest”.

 

[The_Assimilator]

the best possible independent Britain

"Independence" is an anachronism and a liability, not a virtue, in a globalised, interdependent world.

 

[buka001]

Did I say "all" or "many"? Therein lies your answer and apparent assumption ...


What makes the EU the final determinant forever more? The UK could have a parallel standard or outsource compliance duties or if there's a product line they happen to dominate the market in, plain tell the EU to gfy. There are many more possibilities other than "oh dear, guess we lose that business completely" ...

More importantly, what possible purpose does it serve to question these things when the horse has already bolted? Rather find a solution, no?

I agree a solution is needed with the joint co-operation of all. Guidance is needed from government.

But, absolutely nothing is happening (from my experience w.r.t CE marking). Everyone is sitting around waiting for some directive from the government. However the government is also sitting around, blindly walking into negotiations with no plan, just a load of hot air and rhetoric.

The EU's CE marking process is so bad, Japan told them to gfy? Nope Japan had to obtain agreement between their system and the EU system. So I highly doubt the UK are going to tell the EU to gfy. They will abide. After much cost and drama in setting this all up.

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

"I've shot myself in the foot, some doctors want to treat it and others say I should be left to bleed to death for being a dumba**, I'm going to sit here and bleed until they come to a consensus."

Or, or... you could not f**king shoot yourself in the foot to begin with.

Choosing to leave the EU is akin to shooting yourself in the foot, and asking all Brits to "work together" for the best possible outcome is akin to asking a doctor who thinks you're an idiot for shooting yourself, to fix you.

Your opinion, millions of Brits disagree, I also disagree.

That is all besides the point, to use your own metaphor: the foot has already been shot, the doctor can think whatever he wants, but he must fix it regardless. No amount of bitching and moaning and shouting "you shouldn't have done that" is going to chance the undeniable fact that the foot has a wound that needs urgent attention unless the doctor happens to have a time machine. Do you?

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

See, you showing that hint of leaver dumbness again.

just as you are showing a hint of that bremoaner ignorance...

What makes the EU the final determinant? It’s their “house”, it’s their rules.
You want to go into their “house” and sell your goods you have to comply with their rules.
You don’t like their rules and won’t comply, they don’t let you in...

and there it is, you just choose to ignore my example of products where you rule the market? Then it is YOUR house btw and YOU make the rules, a seller's market if you will.

Then of course there's the whole thing about being able to trade freely with the entire world ... do you honestly think if that becomes a reality the EU is still the be all and end all of UK exports? (humour me and assume for a moment that does become reality)

 

[Dave]

Your opinion, millions of Brits disagree, I also disagree.

That is all besides the point, to use your own metaphor: the foot has already been shot, the doctor can think whatever he wants, but he must fix it regardless. No amount of bitching and moaning and shouting "you shouldn't have done that" is going to chance the undeniable fact that the foot has a wound that needs urgent attention unless the doctor happens to have a time machine. Do you?

The foot hasn’t been shot yet, the lunatic is standing with the gun pointing at his foot, he’s shouting that in just under 2 years he intends shooting his foot. He can still be prevented from shooting his foot by a change of action or coming to his senses.

 

[Dave]

just as you are showing a hint of that bremoaner ignorance...


and there it is, you just choose to ignore my example of products where you rule the market? Then it is YOUR house btw and YOU make the rules, a seller's market if you will.

Then of course there's the whole thing about being able to trade freely with the entire world ... do you honestly think if that becomes a reality the EU is still the be all and end all of UK exports? (humour me and assume for a moment that does become reality)

Give an example of an important product the UK exports with only one source, and for which an alternative couldn’t be produced elsewhere if required...

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

"Independence" is an anachronism and a liability, not a virtue, in a globalised, interdependent world.

There's a good, obedient, lemming, I bet the SS had similar pearls of wisdom to share with each "traitor" they executed. The level of group dependence and group think you so admire has been proven throughout history to be a vicious and dangerous thing in the long run...

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Don’t be surprised if there is a fudge or even that option, lots of talk of a plan B if it doesn’t go to plan. Some local commentators are even saying it’s May’s plan to feck it up as badly as possible to turn around at the 11th hour and so “this is impossible and not in Britain’s interest”.

As I mentioned earlier in the thread - it's quite telling how the "IT'S THE PEOPLE'S WILL" crowd are so uncomfortable with a 2nd referendum. Circumstances have changed after all.

That is all besides the point, to use your own metaphor: the foot has already been shot, the doctor can think whatever he wants, but he must fix it regardless. No amount of bitching and moaning and shouting "you shouldn't have done that" is going to chance the undeniable fact that the foot has a wound that needs urgent attention unless the doctor happens to have a time machine. Do you?

So why don't they do it then? They've had more than a year and we've still only heard mindless mutterings, confabulations, pathetic accusations of being disloyal and unpatriotic when faced with criticism etc.

 

[Dave]

As I mentioned earlier in the thread - it's quite telling how the "IT'S THE PEOPLE'S WILL" crowd are so uncomfortable with a 2nd referendum. Circumstances have changed after all.

It seems to be becoming accepted that a lot of people who voted leave feel they were lied to and voted on false grounds, every local news broadcast which has a Brexit segment will have at least one person saying “I voted leave but now feel I made a mistake”.

The rampant Brexiteers know that they don’t have a majority anymore and will fight the idea of a second ref tooth and nail because it seems pretty likely they’ll lose this time.

It wouldn’t take a big swing, remember the majority was only 1.89%.

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

Give an example of an important product the UK exports with only one source, and for which an alternative couldn’t be produced elsewhere if required...

Why does it matter? Do you deny there could ever be such a product? Would one example somehow magically convince you otherwise?

How about every single British brand that banks on its heritage to make a sale? Take McLaren or Aston Martin for example, it doesn't matter who owns the companies or where the cars are manufactured as much as it matters that they are proudly British and have to maintain their Britishness or lose their niche market altogether. Hence they both still have British headquarters.

Now the EU can of course demand all kinds of things from British car makers and wealthy EU citizens of course have many other brands to choose from, but when they want a McLaren they can only get it from ... McLaren