The Brexit Thread

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By the way, here is legal opinion circulated by Brexiteer MPs completely showing up May's "turd" (:p) deal.

Notice he has "QC" (Queen's Counsel, oh yeah) after his name which is essentially the equivalent of a SC here. In other words, he's a hotshot in legal circles!
 
Actually now that I think about it, Boris should really be resigning after reading his leaked comments about the deal:

Boris Johnson has opened up an astonishing new Government split with a crude outburst against Theresa May’s new Brexit policy.

The Foreign Secretary stunned fellow Ministers with his four-letter dismissal of the Prime Minister’s plan at Friday’s special Chequers summit designed to unite the Cabinet. His comment risks making him the first victim of Mrs May’s fresh crackdown on dissent.

Mr Johnson – who has been accused of betrayal by Tory Brexiteers for not blocking Mrs May’s ‘soft Brexit’ proposals – spoke out against the plan for the UK to remain in line with Brussels rules in a new free trade zone with the EU.

According to a reliable source, he complained that anyone obliged to defend the proposals would be ‘polishing a turd’.

He added sarcastically: ‘Luckily we have some expert turd polishers’ – shooting a glance at one of Mrs May’s spin doctors.


Challenging the Prime Minister’s new policy to her face, he said that her decision to try to ‘align’ UK trading rules with the EU would reduce Britain to the humiliating status of a ‘vassal state’.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5929385/Boris-four-letter-attack-Theresa-Brexit.html
 
Excellent news of the resignations. Let's hope Boris does as well. Hopefully the letters demanding a vote of no confidence are flooding into the 1922 committee.

May is a con artist who has completely lied about the manifesto.

That’s like expecting a snail to have some backbone.

Where was he regarding Heathrow?
 
General election incoming. Corbyn as PM, customs union, 4 freedoms and "Brexit". Well done chaps.
 
By the way, here is legal opinion circulated by Brexiteer MPs completely showing up May's "turd" (:p) deal.

Notice he has "QC" (Queen's Counsel, oh yeah) after his name which is essentially the equivalent of a SC here. In other words, he's a hotshot in legal circles!

You have hundreds of QC with hundreds of different opinions that can be as biased as they feel like.

It’s not like it’s a a Lord Justice.
 
General election incoming. Corbyn as PM, customs union, 4 freedoms and "Brexit". Well done chaps.

Rees-Mogg as PM.

Ban of the electricity and cars, reintroduction of the horse carriage, death penalty for women wearing trousers and reopening of the coal mines for children to keep busy.
 
General election incoming. Corbyn as PM, customs union, 4 freedoms and "Brexit". Well done chaps.

30% of Labour voters voted for Brexit. You think this is a done deal? Hahaha. It migh seem that the Conservatives are more divided than Labour but it is just because Conservatives are in government. There is definitely division within Labour over Brexit, mainly because of Corbyn...who actually wants Brexit but can't actually say it. He hardly campaigned in the EU referendum and I still remember than infamous 'nod and wink' when one of the TV presenters asked how he voted.
 
Proof of this, that in 2018 you think there is still a majority.

Let me start

1. Polls systematically underestimated the Leave vote. I remember that even old Nige was quite bleak at the beginning of the evening, such was the assumption that Remain would win.

2. We're not in campaign mode at the moment -- it might be surprising to MyBBers on here, but large majority of people are NOT political obsessives. Some people who have stated they will vote Remain might change their vote to Leave once they 'tune in' to the arguments (and vice versa). Problem with polls is they don't measure the 'hardness' of people's views i.e. how likely they will vote the way they will vote.

3. According to what you are presenting, should we change governments every time a poll has a new lead for the party not in government? The only poll that matters is the one conducted in 2016 where actual votes were counted.

4. Back to my original point - Brexiteers knew very well what they were voting for, confirmed by not one or two large surveys, but three! We are a very consistent group!

Theresa May’s Brexit plan is Remain by another name

Stop it. Stop saying we can’t be sure why people voted for Brexit. Stop saying it was just a screech of rage against politicians and so must now be tempered and made into sensible policy. Stop saying it’s fine for Theresa May in her Chequers showdown to ‘soften’ Brexit and keep us entangled in a customs union, and even in the European Court of Justice, because we don’t know if people really want to leave these institutions. This is all untrue. We know very well why people voted for Brexit, and we know that what May is offering is a betrayal of what they voted for.

It is testament to the chutzpah of the anti-Brexit lobby that they can say, ‘No one knows what Brexit means or what those 17.4m voters were really asking for’. As if the Brexit vote were not the most pored-over democratic act in modern British history. Not only polls but also extensive surveys have been carried out into why people voted Leave. This, after all, is the vote that shook the establishment to its core, and so, like anthropologists trekking off to study a peculiar tribe, they have devoted a huge amount of time and energy to examining it. And their examinations have all returned very similar results: people voted for Brexit because they want to defend British sovereignty against its dilution by Brussels.

It’s there in the extensive Lord Ashcroft polls carried out immediately after the vote. They found that the top reason people gave for voting Leave was ‘the principle that decisions about the UK should be taken in the UK’. Forty-nine per cent said this. The second most popular reason was immigration. Thirty-three percent said they vote Leave because of immigration. And this, too, was couched in terms of sovereignty. Those 33 per cent chose the answer that Leave ‘offered the best chance for the UK to regain control over immigration and its own borders’. So instantly, shortly after the polling booths closed, we had an insight into why people voted Leave — because they want Britain to have sovereign control over its laws and its borders, things that the ECJ and the Single Market directly grate against.

It’s there in the Centre for Social Investigation’s longitudinal survey of people’s reasons for voting Leave. ‘The two main reasons were… immigration and sovereignty’, the CSI concluded. It found that the highest-ranked reason for voting Leave was ‘for the UK to regain control over EU immigration’, and the second highest-ranked reason, very close behind, was because voters ‘didn’t want the EU to have any role in UK law-making’. That is, they voted for sovereignty. The lowest ranked reason for voting Leave was ‘to teach British politicians lessons’, contradicting, in the words of the CSI, the ‘claim that Brexit was a protest vote’. Can we please stop calling Brexit a yelp of fury by ‘the left behind’? It’s patronising. People knew what they were voting for: sovereignty.

And it’s there in NatCen Social Research’s extensive breakdown of the vote. It found that the economy, sovereignty and immigration were the key concerns among all voters in the referendum. Among Leave voters it was primarily immigration and sovereignty. Ninety per cent of people who are generally concerned about the diminution of sovereignty voted Leave; 88 per cent of people who are concerned about Britain’s lack of control over immigration voted Leave. ‘Take back control’ wasn’t just a snappy slogan — it is why people voted Leave.
 
30% of Labour voters voted for Brexit. You think this is a done deal? Hahaha. It migh seem that the Conservatives are more divided than Labour but it is just because Conservatives are in government. There is definitely division within Labour over Brexit, mainly because of Corbyn...who actually wants Brexit but can't actually say it. He hardly campaigned in the EU referendum and I still remember than infamous 'nod and wink' when one of the TV presenters asked how he voted.

Of course there is a division and Corbyn has been a Euroskeptic for decades. The point is no one can deliver Nigel Farage's version of Brexit, or in fact the version that Tory Brexiteers were selling, without screwing the UK economy. Which is why things keep tending towards a soft Brexit.
 
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politic...nment-crisis-david-davis-resigns-brexit-plan/

The Prime Minister is due to address all Conservative MPs at a meeting tonight where she will plead for their backing for her Brexit deal.

She was expected to face a rough ride from Brexiteers after Jacob Rees-Mogg, the leader of a 60-strong group of Eurosceptic Tory backbenchers, announced in Monday's Telegraph that he will vote against the Chequers Brexit plan.

But Mr Davis's resignation could be a game-changer in deciding Mrs May's future, as MPs will ask why they should support her plan if the minister in charge of Brexit did not believe it was fit for purpose.

So how is May going to get her nonsense through Parliament, assuming that the EU even accept this? JRM and his merry band of Eurosceptics are 60 votes...and there's no chance Labour will vote for this - they are far more interested in bringing down the government and getting into power...
 
Of course there is a division and Corbyn has been a Euroskeptic for decades. The point is no one can deliver Nigel Farage's version of Brexit, or in fact the version that Tory Brexiteers were selling, without screwing the UK economy. Which is why things keep tending towards a soft Brexit.

Why can't the UK just have an FTA with the EU? No one has explained that to me. Why can't the UK have something like this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comprehensive_Economic_and_Trade_Agreement
 
Why can't the UK just have an FTA with the EU? No one has explained that to me. Why can't the UK have something like this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comprehensive_Economic_and_Trade_Agreement

It has been explained to you. Those FTAs don't cover services, which is most of the UK's economy. It is not in the interests of the EU to amend the agreements to include, for example, financial services unless the UK is willing to accept the 4 freedoms and be part of the single market (and pay into the EU budget...). They have been unwavering on this point, and any thought of deviation from it is pure fantasy.
 
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It has been explained to you. Those FTAs don't cover services, which is most of the UK's economy. It is not in the interests of the EU to amend the agreements to include, for example, financial services unless the UK is willing to accept the 4 freedoms and be part of the single market (and pay into the EU budget...). They have been unwavering on this point, and any thought of deviation from it is pure fantasy.

But Nigel Farage told me that

THE EU ACTING IN ITS MEMBER STATES' INTEREST IS A FASCIST PLOT AGAINST BRITAIN
 
It has been explained to you. Those FTAs don't cover services, which is most of the UK's economy. It is not in the interests of the EU to amend the agreements to include, for example, financial services unless the UK is willing to accept the 4 freedoms and be part of the single market (and pay into the EU budget...). They have been unwavering on this point, and any thought of deviation from it is pure fantasy.

So it is the inflexibilty of the EU that is the problem. Thanks for making the point for me.
 
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