The Brexit Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
NarrowBandFtw said:
and the UK won't grant that referendum, so the Scots can really vote however they like, makes no difference
Click to expand...

Why wouldn't they? UK is fundamentally about self-determination - I don't see why they wouldn't allow it after Brexit is done.
 
JayM said:
Why wouldn't they? UK is fundamentally about self-determination - I don't see why they wouldn't allow it after Brexit is done.
Click to expand...
ToxicBunny said:
They did before... Why wouldn't they again?
Click to expand...
- because they already gave the Scots a referendum in 2014 when the brexit referendum was on the cards, not the UK's problem the Scots chose wrong

- because, judging by lag between getting into the EU and getting a referendum to get out, the UK takes roughly 40 years between these independence referendums, the Scots will need to wait until 2054 for their next one then ...

- because it was already shot down in no uncertain terms:
https://www.holyrood.com/articles/n...turgeon-second-independence-referendum-demand

- but mostly because the UK wields all the power on this one, why on earth would they let Scotland go free? You can bet your last cent if the EU could legally reject an article 50 invocation they would, in the UK's case they hold all the cards over Scotland
 
And if the UK has a second referendum in terms of brexit... Then the Scots could claim the same....

Theresa may is also flip flopping so that isn't really set in stone either.
 
ToxicBunny said:
And if the UK has a second referendum in terms of brexit... Then the Scots could claim the same....

Theresa may is also flip flopping so that isn't really set in stone either.
Click to expand...
Lol, you guys think politicians have principles. How quaint :)
 
Spizz said:
The difference is Chris, I know the UK and you don’t. Im from there. My family and friends are from there. I go often for visits and in fact have just spent over a year there on a building site with the Brexit vote fallout in full flow.

Whereas you are a foreigner who has never lived there, reads the Daily Mail and went to Oxford for a week.
Click to expand...

This should be stickied under any post Chris makes about UK politics.
 
NarrowBandFtw said:
- because they already gave the Scots a referendum in 2014 when the brexit referendum was on the cards, not the UK's problem the Scots chose wrong

- because, judging by lag between getting into the EU and getting a referendum to get out, the UK takes roughly 40 years between these independence referendums, the Scots will need to wait until 2054 for their next one then ...

- because it was already shot down in no uncertain terms:
https://www.holyrood.com/articles/n...turgeon-second-independence-referendum-demand

- but mostly because the UK wields all the power on this one, why on earth would they let Scotland go free? You can bet your last cent if the EU could legally reject an article 50 invocation they would, in the UK's case they hold all the cards over Scotland
Click to expand...

Honestly not too fussed about Scotland holding another referendum if that is the will of the people. The thing the SNP don't seem to get is that although they win Scottish elections, the Unionist vote is a 3-way split between Tories, Labour and Lib Dems so it easy to win when your opponents are fishing in the same pool. Also people will eventually get bored of the SNP as they have governed for so long.

Also opinion polls show a strong majority against Independence anyhow: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposed_second_Scottish_independence_referendum#Opinion_polling
 
NarrowBandFtw said:
why on earth would they let Scotland go free?
Click to expand...

You really read too much daily fail. You're thinking the UK will want Scotland in the union against their will, but it's not like that. If public sentiment has shifted enough according to polls, a 2nd referendum wouldn't be denied. It won't happen immediately because of Brexit, but if they don't scrap Brexit, it's inevitable.
 
Spizz said:
The difference is Chris, I know the UK and you don’t. Im from there. My family and friends are from there. I go often for visits and in fact have just spent over a year there on a building site with the Brexit vote fallout in full flow.

Whereas you are a foreigner who has never lived there, reads the Daily Mail and went to Oxford for a week.
Click to expand...

- Urgghhh...been regularly going to the UK since 2001.

- I read more widely than the DM, especially the feel of what Tory activists are thinking about developments, hence why I can tell you that Farage's Brexit Party will easily surpass the Tories in the EU elections (the Tories grassroots are livid). The wonderful thing about the internet is if you read widely enough, you can get a good feel of the temperature of the place. Also personally I've been a Brexiteer since the Greek fiasco in 2011 or so. Yes way before I knew of the existence of Rees-Mogg or Nigel Farage.

- My trip to Oxford was actually quite illuminating regarding this debate. All the waitrons at the Oxford college I stayed at were Polish women (and good looking :p). Highly capable, efficient and hard working, far better service than I'd get in SA. But then that led me to think - why is Britain not more interested in training its own people? Are wages being undercut due to free movement? Do British companies become lazy in investing in its own people because there is so much labour from other countries?

- I have my brother and multiple friends in the UK. Yes, the large majority did vote to remain but I have a theory about SA expats which is that they move to the UK purely for economic reasons and thus completely don't comprehend the psyche of British Brexiteers which relates to not just a simple "economic transaction".

- Now we can safely discard all the SA expats on here. But you are of good Scottish stock and must know something of the British psyche. Continental Europe has quite a different history to Britain, especially of the experiences of war. Hence they are not so strongly wedded to the "European" idea.
 
Chris_the_Brit said:
- Urgghhh...been regularly going to the UK since 2001.

- I read more widely than the DM, especially the feel of what Tory activists are thinking about developments, hence why I can tell you that Farage's Brexit Party will easily surpass the Tories in the EU elections (the Tories grassroots are livid). The wonderful thing about the internet is if you read widely enough, you can get a good feel of the temperature of the place. Also personally I've been a Brexiteer since the Greek fiasco in 2011 or so. Yes way before I knew of the existence of Rees-Mogg or Nigel Farage.

- My trip to Oxford was actually quite illuminating regarding this debate. All the waitrons at the Oxford college I stayed at were Polish women (and good looking :p). Highly capable, efficient and hard working, far better service than I'd get in SA. But then that led me to think - why is Britain not more interested in training its own people? Are wages being undercut due to free movement? Do British companies become lazy in investing in its own people because there is so much labour from other countries?

- I have my brother and multiple friends in the UK. Yes, the large majority did vote to remain but I have a theory about SA expats which is that they move to the UK purely for economic reasons and thus completely don't comprehend the psyche of British Brexiteers which relates to not just a simple "economic transaction".

- Now we can safely discard all the SA expats on here. But you are of good Scottish stock and must know something of the British psyche. Continental Europe has quite a different history to Britain, especially of the experiences of war. Hence they are not so strongly wedded to the "European" idea.
Click to expand...
I’ve lived there for 10 years. And not in that bubble called London. You know jack. I usually don’t respond to your posts, because they based on ignorance. But I’m in a strange mood so here goes:

You are generalising when you say British companies have become lazy and don’t invest in training people. You are wrong. The problem is the same problem in every country : there is never the right balance of supply and demand for skills.

The company I work for has trained up people who worked in our call center to be java or C# developers with great success. Some of our senior tech leads have worked at the company for more than 15 years and started out in places like the mail room. We still can’t get enough skilled developers. We currently have 2 contracts with software houses in Dublin and Warsaw. I know for a fact it’s the same for our competitors in our industry.

The few people who admit they voted leave also acknowledge they believed the promises by the likes of Gove, Johnson etc., and agree they lied. They regret voting leave. Most of the didn’t think the vote would result in a leave vote. That’s also the problem with remainers. They didn’t bother to vote because they didn’t believe anyone would be so stupid. Why do think the election that took place AFTER the referendum wiped out UKIP and stripped the Tories of their majority ?

If Brexit doesn’t get done by the next general election, the Tories will be kicked out and the Article 50 decision reversed. This why the other parties are NEVER going agree with any deal the Tories present to Parliament. I’ll bet the opposition couldn’t believe their luck when the withdrawal agreement included the Irish backstop clause. This guaranteed the 10 bigoted DUP members would never support it, making it possible to keep kickin Brexit down the road until an election can be held and the opposition parties will have a field day publicising the incompetence and infighting in the Tory party.
 
Spizz said:
I'm born and bred in a UK council estate and am proud to call myself working class. I'm talking about my friends here.
Click to expand...

Remarkable how the same people who very openly sneer at ANC/EFF supporters (only vote for them because of KFC/t-shirts/stupidity etc.) never apply the kind of logic they use in this thread to South Africa. Here it's all righteous indignation.

Spizz said:
The difference is Chris, I know the UK and you don’t. Im from there. My family and friends are from there. I go often for visits and in fact have just spent over a year there on a building site with the Brexit vote fallout in full flow.

Whereas you are a foreigner who has never lived there, reads the Daily Mail and went to Oxford for a week.
Click to expand...

And he supports people who have nothing but contempt for the "working class". They like using them as election fodder, but they're the useless, corrupt "elite" that will stoke xenophobia to split working class people, while at the same time gutting their public services and enriching themselves.
 
OrbitalDawn said:
Remarkable how the same people who very openly sneer at ANC/EFF supporters (only vote for them because of KFC/t-shirts/stupidity etc.) never apply the kind of logic they use in this thread to South Africa. Here it's all righteous indignation.

And he supports people who have nothing but contempt for the "working class". They like using them as election fodder, but they're the useless, corrupt "elite" that will stoke xenophobia to split working class people, while at the same time gutting their public services and enriching themselves.
Click to expand...

Well said.
 
zippy said:
I’ve lived there for 10 years. And not in that bubble called London. You know jack. I usually don’t respond to your posts, because they based on ignorance. But I’m in a strange mood so here goes:

You are generalising when you say British companies have become lazy and don’t invest in training people. You are wrong. The problem is the same problem in every country : there is never the right balance of supply and demand for skills.

The company I work for has trained up people who worked in our call center to be java or C# developers with great success. Some of our senior tech leads have worked at the company for more than 15 years and started out in places like the mail room. We still can’t get enough skilled developers. We currently have 2 contracts with software houses in Dublin and Warsaw. I know for a fact it’s the same for our competitors in our industry.

The few people who admit they voted leave also acknowledge they believed the promises by the likes of Gove, Johnson etc., and agree they lied. They regret voting leave. Most of the didn’t think the vote would result in a leave vote. That’s also the problem with remainers. They didn’t bother to vote because they didn’t believe anyone would be so stupid. Why do think the election that took place AFTER the referendum wiped out UKIP and stripped the Tories of their majority ?

If Brexit doesn’t get done by the next general election, the Tories will be kicked out and the Article 50 decision reversed. This why the other parties are NEVER going agree with any deal the Tories present to Parliament. I’ll bet the opposition couldn’t believe their luck when the withdrawal agreement included the Irish backstop clause. This guaranteed the 10 bigoted DUP members would never support it, making it possible to keep kickin Brexit down the road until an election can be held and the opposition parties will have a field day publicising the incompetence and infighting in the Tory party.
Click to expand...
Pretty much all of this.

I also live here and also way outside of the London bubble.

I work in construction, so I work and talk with your typical blue collar worker each and every day. We get into discussions about Brexit. The opinions are varied and there are alot of generalisations about the various hot topics.

Some guys voted for Brexit as a big FU to the Tories and that ponce David Cameron. Some of them voted for border controls and to get all the Romanians kicked out. Its all over the show.

A good few of them would now vote remain. They say they had no clue that the implications would be so diverse and complicated and never thought Leave would win. They thought it would be a big wake up call to Government.

Some of the hardcore guys are all, leave means leave, we want a No Deal. I casually asked him what does a No Deal Brexit mean. Does he understand what that means for the Irish Border. Some of the basics etc. All I get is Leave Means Leave. In the end it comes down to him just wanting the immigrants kicked out (which is ironic, as I am an immigrant, but he is more than happy for me to stay).

All anecdotal, so take it with a pinch of salt.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top
Sign up to the MyBroadband newsletter
X