The browser as a platform

I always did, I still now, and I think I will probably always, HATE web apps! :-(

In fact, I'm always looking for ways to spend LESS time in a browser.

Why visit www.gmail.com when you can have the super-fast super featured Thunderbird (and use IMAP) running natively in your Operating System of choice?
Why use an extension of your browser when you can have the super-fast TweetDeck running natively (well, under AIR) in your Operating System of choice?
Why visit docs.google.com (or whatever the hell the URL is) when you can have OpenOffice (or any number of other free office applications) running natively in your operating system of choice--saving to your DropBox folder, of course.
Why use a web chatting service when you can have KVIRC/mIRC/IceChat/whatever your favourite IRC client is, and chat on IRC servers?

The list goes on and on. It even grates me to have to open my browser to comment on this thread. That is NOT what the WEB was designed for!! Why not use a mailing list or (preferably) newsgroups? :-(

An (native) app for everything, and everything to its own app, I've always said! ;-)
 
Why open a new program when you can click on gmail for all your e-mails and superfast google search inside your mail.

Why not click on your twitter/fb extension to read it near immediately.

Why open a new program to create document, spreadsheet when you have it within one click on your browser, syncing without any extra resources.
 
The answer to all three of those questions is "Because my browser isn't open at the moment. TweetDeck, Thunderbird and whatever Office program I'm busy with ARE, and they were designed for fullfilling all those functions. The web (and by extension [excuse the pun] the browser) was not."

Besides, if I want to find an e-mail I got three months ago, Thunderbird's gonna find it way faster than a Google search, thanks to our wonderfully fast internet connection in this country, and the fact that it's not likely to be in my offline cache in Gmail anymore.

Edit: Oh, and to use your spreadsheet example. I'm very certain that clicking Applications -> Office -> OpenOffice.org Calc is going to result in me being able to type a lot quicker than opening my browser, typing docs.google.com (or even clicking a link on my favourites bar), wait for it to load, sign in because it's forgotten me since I haven't signed in in 30 days, wait for it to load, click create document... You get the idea. :p (Oh, and heavens forbid my Internet happens to be down at that moment)
 
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Nocturne said:
Why visit www.gmail.com when you can have the super-fast super featured Thunderbird (and use IMAP) running natively in your Operating System of choice?
Click to expand...

Because you can access gmail on anything and the kitchen sink,

Nocturne said:
Why visit docs.google.com (or whatever the hell the URL is) when you can have OpenOffice (or any number of other free office applications) running natively in your operating system of choice--saving to your DropBox folder, of course.
Click to expand...

Can I sit on the other side of the world, with nothing but a web browser or smartphone browser and edit a document while you watch in real-time with OpenOffice?

Will the average person link up their documents folder with a dropbox account, install and configure that dropbox on any other device they use when they can just go to docs.google.com and everything is there?



Nocturne said:
The list goes on and on. It even grates me to have to open my browser to comment on this thread. That is NOT what the WEB was designed for!! Why not use a mailing list or (preferably) newsgroups? :-(
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You clearly have only one PC and dont travel much. ; )
 
Nocturne said:
The answer to all three of those questions is "Because my browser isn't open at the moment. TweetDeck, Thunderbird and whatever Office program I'm busy with ARE, and they were designed for fullfilling all those functions. The web (and by extension [excuse the pun] the browser) was not."

Besides, if I want to find an e-mail I got three months ago, Thunderbird's gonna find it way faster than a Google search, thanks to our wonderfully fast internet connection in this country, and the fact that it's not likely to be in my offline cache in Gmail anymore.
Click to expand...

You put a good argument for 'offline' programs over web sites.

On the website site, it has two bonuses - the "it just works" [no downloading, installing setting up] and more control by the companies to make changes it know all users will get [no troubles of half your users being on buggy version 1.1 when version 3 is out.]

But you're right, I think it's time its download thunderbird again.
 
stricken said:
Because you can access gmail on anything and the kitchen sink,
Click to expand...

I have Thunderbird on my home PC, Thunderbird on my work notebook, and an e-mail client installed on my Android smartphone and iPad.

stricken said:
Can I sit on the other side of the world, with nothing but a web browser or smartphone browser and edit a document while you watch in real-time with OpenOffice?
Click to expand...

You can have DropBox installed on your smartphone or tablet, and all smartphones and tablets have apps allowing you to edit Office documents.

stricken said:
Will the average person link up their documents folder with a dropbox account, install and configure that dropbox on any other device they use when they can just go to docs.google.com and everything is there?
Click to expand...

Why must we "dumb down" the internet so the "average user" can access it? Isn't technology about enriching people's lives (and the best way to do that is through education), not making them more stupid? Yet another topic I feel very strongly about. :( Oh for the days when you needed an indepth knowledge of IP addressing to just connect....

stricken said:
You clearly have only one PC and dont travel much. ; )
Click to expand...

One desktop, one notebook (but truth be told, I'd rather have a desktop because performance beats mobility any day of the week), a smartphone and a tablet. But you're right, I don't travel much. I'm a programmer... and no, I can't run Visual Studio in a web browser! :p
 
eltherza said:
On the website site, it has two bonuses - the "it just works" [no downloading, installing setting up] and more control by the companies to make changes it know all users will get [no troubles of half your users being on buggy version 1.1 when version 3 is out.]
Click to expand...

These days with things like OneClick Deployment and automatic updates that's far less of a problem than it was, and in any event I've always considered it to be no more than a minor irritation.

The web is slow (especially in this country), clunky (there's only so much you can do with HTML, and if you want to go Flash/Silverlight/Java, that blows your argument out of the water because those are things the user needs to install), and once again simply not designed for running these kinds of applications. Let us not forget what "HTTP" stands for.
 
stricken said:
Because you can access gmail on anything and the kitchen sink,
Can I sit on the other side of the world, with nothing but a web browser or smartphone browser and edit a document while you watch in real-time with OpenOffice?

Will the average person link up their documents folder with a dropbox account, install and configure that dropbox on any other device they use when they can just go to docs.google.com and everything is there?

You clearly have only one PC and dont travel much. ; )
Click to expand...

So the only thing you have on your phone is a web browser - no twitter app, facebook app, no ever note, no skype, no gtalk?

If phones are going more and more "apps", why are PCs trying to go less and and less programs (AKA apps)?
It's an interesting thought actually.
 
eltherza said:
On the website site, it has two bonuses - the "it just works" [no downloading, installing setting up] and more control by the companies to make changes it know all users will get [no troubles of half your users being on buggy version 1.1 when version 3 is out.]
Click to expand...

These days with things like OneClick Deployment and automatic updates that's far less of a problem than it was, and in any event I've always considered it to be no more than a minor irritation.

The web is slow (especially in this country), clunky (there's only so much you can do with HTML, and if you want to go Flash/Silverlight/Java, that blows your argument out of the water because those are things the user needs to install), and once again simply not designed for running these kinds of applications. Let us not forget what "HTTP" stands for.
 
Nocturne said:
These days with things like OneClick Deployment and automatic updates that's far less of a problem than it was, and in any event I've always considered it to be no more than a minor irritation.
Click to expand...

Still an irritation for both user and supplier.

The web is slow (especially in this country), clunky (there's only so much you can do with HTML, and if you want to go Flash/Silverlight/Java, that blows your argument out of the water because those are things the user needs to install), and once again simply not designed for running these kinds of applications.
Click to expand...

Not arguing with you, just highlighting some positives about "web apps"

Let us not forget what "HTTP" stands for.
Click to expand...

Funny enough, HTTP is being used by programs and websites are very much the same - just a preference of UI choice.
 
eltherza said:
Still an irritation for both user and supplier.
Funny enough, HTTP is being used by programs and websites are very much the same - just a preference of UI choice.
Click to expand...

Yes, that did occur to me after I hit Post. It's because everyone wants everything to run over port 80 (again, "dumbing things down"). That's a whole other debate.

Suffice to say, if I believe that there should be an app for everything and everything to its app, then it stands to reason that I also believe that there should be a port for everything and everything in its port. ;)
 
Nocturne said:
The answer to all three of those questions is "Because my browser isn't open at the moment.
Click to expand...

Your choice of using client side programs makes sense for you, because it matches your behaviour of not using a browser except for web browsing, while having dedicated programs for every other task.

I have the opposite behaviour: my browsers are always open on work and home PC's. I don't have as much of a problem with the internet connection as you do for things like email, IM and social networking. I also tend to favour using a browser because it starts up much faster than other client side programs I've tried, and opening a new tab + loading gmail takes even less time than opening an email client (since the gmail code is cached after the first load)

The only time I still favour using a client side program is when I'm coding or playing games, and I suspect that will also change in the future.
 
Mouse said:
I also tend to favour using a browser because it starts up much faster than other client side programs I've tried, and opening a new tab + loading gmail takes even less time than opening an email client (since the gmail code is cached after the first load)
Click to expand...

Just tried it now. I went to http://www.gmail.com/ from my browser. I'm already signed in so I immediately saw the progress bar that said "Loading [email protected]." From the time I hit enter on my address bar to the time I saw my inbox: 55 seconds. On the other hand, from the time I clicked "Mozilla Thunderbird" to the time it had finished checking for new mail (I had none): 15 seconds. And while I wait for it to check for new mail I can work with the mails that are already there. That I only had to wait around 3 seconds for.
 
Hi Nocturne

You wrote:
I have Thunderbird on my home PC, Thunderbird on my work notebook, and an e-mail client installed on my Android smartphone and iPad.

How do you keep them in sync? I have tried IMAP but it is just too slow!
 
The only browser platform that I use fairly regularly is Gmail. but I have to say that I am not impressed with the Browser as a Platform.

I far better prefer offline apps, or even seperate apps that require an Internet connection.

Using the Browser as a platform is like trying to have a Paris to Dakar Rally in a children's sand pit.

I predict that Android will become far more popular as a platform than the Google Web platform operating system.
 
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So if you use Tapatalk to access these forums, how do you classify that?
 
TimTDP said:
How do you keep them in sync? I have tried IMAP but it is just too slow!
Click to expand...

That's odd. I use IMAP, and I've never had a problem. See above for how long it takes to open and check for new mail. And I have like 20 folders (folders are waay better than Gmail's concept of "labels" - even though I know that, on the web, that's what they actually are).
 
biometrics said:
So if you use Tapatalk to access these forums, how do you classify that?
Click to expand...

Ooh, never heard of that!

/me Googles

Thanks for the heads up! :D

Edit: Grr. Only a Chrome extension; that's not much use. As previously mentioned, I'm looking for excuses to not have to open my browser as much. :p Will try it on my iPad and phone, though. It looks quite interesting.
 
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