The Entrepreneur Thread

CheekyC

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Nov 25, 2013
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Thanks for the valuable feedback here.

I will be turning my presentation into more of a business plan with costs. With projections though i will have to see if I can speak to some of my friends family that own their own coffee shops and get their input.

I manged to find a generic NDA as well to add. Hopefully will keep my idea from being stolen.

please contunue though. :)

but you are stealing someone else's idea :mad:
 

OrbitalDawn

Ulysses Everett McGill
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Cool idea for a thread.

So you're starting a coffee shop? Good luck.
 

HavocXphere

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It usually boils down to you signing personal surety.

You might get some investors/bank to cover some of it but they won't move without some kind of support so ultimately it'll end with you taking a leap of faith...or not.

Good luck.
 

Sonic2k

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The problem with NDAs, especially in South Africa, is that people generally use pro-forma ones they've downloaded off the internet.
I don't do that, I set them up using an attorney
The NDAs end up being so general and so wide-ranging so as to be completely unenforceable.
Not so in my case, we do this properly
Investors won't sign them because they hear thousands of pitches every month, often from people with the same ideas as other people. Investors can't and won't be bound to a legally binding contract like that. Imagine if you had to sign thousands of NDAs and try to keep track of which ones cover which ideas. You open yourself up to a lot of litigation. You can't keep track, and therefore investors don't sign NDAs.
I don't make investors sign NDAs.

Good luck trying to get a supplier to sign an NDA too.
In my line of business, happens a lot, and my suppliers actually insist on them.
Web designers, developers and other types of creative people often refuse to sign them as well because of legal ramifications.
I don't work with those kinds of people
Of course, a confidentially agreement that compels someone to not steal your client list, for example, is a different matter. But don't expect someone to sign an wide-ranging NDA just to listen to your idea. I promise you, your idea is not that great and there almost certainly are a lot of other people with the same idea.

How do you know, have you actually seen what I have done??? Without having seen it, don't knock it. And for your info, I have actually WON a SABS design award, some years back. So ja, not just some doofus on a forum ne... I even hold patents! I don't come here and get people to worship me hence they are not mentioned, except in a case like this where you think I am a fool.

For what it is worth, let me tell you what my problem has been. People having a lack of faith in me, which led me to sticking it out for years at crappy companies who abused me. The typical SA company that designs and makes stuff operates pretty much in the use-then-abuse business model. They will get what they want out of you, then make life such that you will want to leave.
In the leading phase, they will give you bonuses, increases, etc.. then when the product is out and making bucks, then its dump-time. After having just been abused again, I have called it a day, except this time, I have a nice and growing client base, I work 18 hours a day (most SA people are too lazy to manage this). This time I have the balls to tell my employer to get stuffed, and go it on my own, from home.

Part of the problem has been that companies have abused me so much, that they have left psychological scars. Telkom was enough to make me lazy for several years, then working for a-holes in the following years, didn't help me either. These days now that I have dealt with my issues, I am mature enough to handle this business.

Due to lack of decent electronic engineers i.e. engineers who KNOW WTF THEY ARE DOING, in SA, this is what happened: From around 2011, I started getting queries from people asking for help with stuff i.e. they had work done somewhere else, and the stuff left egg on their face kind of situation (i.e. p1ss-poor work from graduates who thought electronics = big bucks; people not passionate about it at all and who have gaps in knowledge)
This grew, and grew and grew, into a customer base, whom I am constantly doing development for, with a monthly turn-over of R70k+. I get new work around the 7th of each month... it pumps and pumps and pumps.
I have signed on new customers this month, which I project will push my turnover to R300k/month, and this is why I am leaving my day job ASAP.

Aside from customer work, I have ideas, which I have prototyped. I am not like every Tom, Dick, and Harry who has an idea and then tries to sell it. No, I build an actual DEMO, or prototype first, as that speaks volumes not only about my skills, but also leaves no doubt in anyone's mind.
 
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DJ...

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They sign a confidentiality and non-disclosure agreement.

Wish I had more time to dedicate to this thread as business and entrepreneurial incubation is my passion. A few notes on the NDA and confidentiality:

1) if you go this route, have it drafted by a lawyer - few angels and no investment houses will sign a poorly worded NDA/confidentiality agreement, and certainly not if it is vague. It needs to be incredibly specific to you, that time, that place, and that presentation. Otherwise you'll simply be told to shove off. Many will refuse to sign one as well.

2) this is not a bad thing. People seem to be overly paranoid about their ideas, thinking that everyone is out to steal them. This is not the case - hardly, even. Most ideas grow organically into concepts, which through assistance and persistence grow into models, which grow into bankable documents, which grow into start-ups. Most ideas tend to be niche, and specific to the skills of the person who came up with the idea. Moreover, most ideas are simply not viable. If you refuse to engage because you're scared that someone will steal your idea, you WILL lose out on development of your concept. You will lose out on potential partnerships and investors, and you will lose out on potential customers. There are so many barriers to entry in starting any business (note, not company) that very few people are going to actually go out and steal someone else's idea. I wouldn't approach a large corporate with your idea until it is actually viable and you have the funding of course, as this is risky in the theft department, but don't be afraid to talk about it and get feedback outside of your own mind.

Just the other day Dolby and I had a good private discussion by email about a business he is considering starting, and I was able to point out the opportunities, areas of focus, risks, and flaws in the idea. An idea he may otherwise have thrown good money at - throwing good money at a bad idea is how we learn, but what if someone else has already learned these lessons and can mentor you instead? This is not to say that Dolby's idea wasn't great - it is - but it needs refinement before one can be sure that it's even viable as a business.

If I had more time I'd write an essay, but unfortunately I am eyeball deep in starting up another company myself, together with another mybroadband member. But one word of advice: don't turn down a good meeting because of paranoia...
 
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Chevron

Serial breaker of phones
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Messages
25,900
Wish I had more time to dedicate to this thread as business and entrepreneurial incubation is my passion. A few notes on the NDA and confidentiality:

1) if you go this route, have it drafted by a lawyer - few angels and no investment houses will sign a poorly worded NDA/confidentiality agreement, and certainly not if it is vague. It needs to be incredibly specific to you, that time, that place, and that presentation. Otherwise you'll simply be told to shove off. Many will refuse to sign one as well.

2) this is not a bad thing. People seem to be overly paranoid about their ideas, thinking that everyone is out to steal them. This is not the case - hardly, even. Most ideas grow organically into concepts, which through assistance and persistence grow into models, which grow into bankable documents, which grow into start-ups. Most ideas tend to be niche, and specific to the skills of the person who came up with the idea. Moreover, most ideas are simply not viable. If you refuse to engage because you're scared that someone will steal your idea, you WILL lose out on development of your concept. You will lose out on potential partnerships and investors, and you will lose out on potential customers. There are so many barriers to entry in starting any business (note, not company) that very few people are going to actually go out and steal someone else's idea. I wouldn't approach a large corporate with your idea until it is actually viable and you have the funding of course, as this is risky in the theft department, but don't be afraid to talk about it and get feedback outside of your own mind.

Just the other day Dolby and I had a good private discussion by email about a business he is considering starting, and I was able to point out the opportunities, areas of focus, risks, and flaws in the idea. An idea he may otherwise have thrown good money at - throwing good money at a bad idea is how we learn, but what if someone else has already learned these lessons and can mentor you instead? This is not to say that Dolby's idea wasn't great - it is - but it needs refinement before one can be sure that it's even viable as a business.

If I had more time I'd write an essay, but unfortunately I am eyeball deep in starting up another company myself, together with another mybroadband member. But one word of advice: don't turn down a good meeting because of paranoia...

Thank you for your insights. Exactly the type of stuff I was looking for.

Don't do it.

Why you say this?
 

Sonic2k

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Thank you DJ my friend :)
Just one thing though (feel free to drop me a mail if you need clarity)
this is not a bad thing. People seem to be overly paranoid about their ideas, thinking that everyone is out to steal them. This is not the case
In my line of work, it does happen, often. This is why I spend money on patent pending and real patents. Several items I did in the 1990s have been copied, I don't get a cent while the a-hole who stole my stuff is coining it.
 

DJ...

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Thank you DJ my friend :)
Just one thing though (feel free to drop me a mail if you need clarity)

In my line of work, it does happen, often. This is why I spend money on patent pending and real patents. Several items I did in the 1990s have been copied, I don't get a cent while the a-hole who stole my stuff is coining it.

Quite simply, protect what you can, and just be better! Competition is healthy - you want it.

I don't mind if someone steals my ideas - I'll implement it better than them and run a better business...
 

Purply

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From my personal experience when I opened my own business, I did all the leg work, drew up a very impressive looking business plan which took me months to put together, went to numerous banks for capital,I only needed R500 000, none of which wanted to take the risk as I had no proof of clients that would support the business (can't remember what the banks call that), so I ended up cashing in my 10 years investment plan , which at that stage was only 7 years old. Managed to get 70% of capital needed and took the remaining 30% out of my excess capital available in my bond.

Long story short, I'm glad I never went the bank route, the repayment on "loans" nowadays are crazy and I sure as **** ain't going to give my hard earned money to "investors" just because they have spare cash to invest into something.
 

Sonic2k

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From my personal experience when I opened my own business, I did all the leg work, drew up a very impressive looking business plan which took me months to put together, went to numerous banks for capital,I only needed R500 000, none of which wanted to take the risk as I had no proof of clients that would support the business (can't remember what the banks call that), so I ended up cashing in my 10 years investment plan , which at that stage was only 7 years old. Managed to get 70% of capital needed and took the remaining 30% out of my excess capital available in my bond.

Long story short, I'm glad I never went the bank route, the repayment on "loans" nowadays are crazy and I sure as **** ain't going to give my hard earned money to "investors" just because they have spare cash to invest into something.

Yes, screw the banks, they are only in it for themselves. Several people I knew on other forums, who have businesses, did exactly what you did.
 

Sonic2k

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Quite simply, protect what you can, and just be better! Competition is healthy - you want it.

I don't mind if someone steals my ideas - I'll implement it better than them and run a better business...
Indeed
Of course it goes without saying back in the 1990s I was pretty naive and stupid.
 

noob_saibot

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Messages
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They call it the: rule of 3 Fs

Family, friends, fools.

Those are the first people you approach for investment, typically in that order.

Any man who has the reached the stage where he can invest in others is obviously going to be smarter than you (especially financially), so be wary of private investors you don't know...

As for Koosi, I'd seriously regret getting into an argument about ideas with you bru, you'll butcher me :D

If the coffee shop idea is popular overseas, than your mugg & bean and the other coffee chains are already aware of it and working on implementing it.

Good luck!
 

DigitalSoldier

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Messages
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From my personal experience when I opened my own business, I did all the leg work, drew up a very impressive looking business plan which took me months to put together, went to numerous banks for capital,I only needed R500 000, none of which wanted to take the risk as I had no proof of clients that would support the business (can't remember what the banks call that), so I ended up cashing in my 10 years investment plan , which at that stage was only 7 years old. Managed to get 70% of capital needed and took the remaining 30% out of my excess capital available in my bond.

Long story short, I'm glad I never went the bank route, the repayment on "loans" nowadays are crazy and I sure as **** ain't going to give my hard earned money to "investors" just because they have spare cash to invest into something.

This is what I am busy with.

The company I work for outsources a lot of the work we do to another company(company b).

As the company I work for and company B are the only companies in SA that can do this kind of work, but company B also does the same work for a lot of other companies which means company B has now got a turnover time of 30 days instead of 7 days as required.

I have created a full presentation to my manager on why it would be better for us to just acquire another machine instead of outsourcing the work to company B. But it feels like I am talking to the walls.

The machine costs R500,000.00 so I am busy with a business plan and also getting my company to sign a contract that instead of sending the work to company b, to sign a 3 year contract with me to do it.

I want to then approach the bank and see if I can get the loan without any security. If not I am prepared to give my house as security.

My current company will also be able to pay me R22 916.00 per month for the work. Then I should be able to pay off the loan in 24 months.

And as I will only be focusing on one client I will be able to give the desired turnaround time of 7 days or even less and :)
 

Purply

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This is what I am busy with.

The company I work for outsources a lot of the work we do to another company(company b).

As the company I work for and company B are the only companies in SA that can do this kind of work, but company B also does the same work for a lot of other companies which means company B has now got a turnover time of 30 days instead of 7 days as required.

I have created a full presentation to my manager on why it would be better for us to just acquire another machine instead of outsourcing the work to company B. But it feels like I am talking to the walls.

The machine costs R500,000.00 so I am busy with a business plan and also getting my company to sign a contract that instead of sending the work to company b, to sign a 3 year contract with me to do it.

I want to then approach the bank and see if I can get the loan without any security. If not I am prepared to give my house as security.

My current company will also be able to pay me R22 916.00 per month for the work. Then I should be able to pay off the loan in 24 months.

And as I will only be focusing on one client I will be able to give the desired turnaround time of 7 days or even less and :)

It's definitely a good start, the bank will in all likelihood give you the required monies if your current company signs a letter of intent to purchase x amount monthly, but you'll probably have to sign your life away.

It is however a bit risky only have "one client". What happens if things start slowing down, do you have the expertise to source work elsewhere?

Also keep in mind when purchasing machinery via the bank, interest it calculated in advance, with them setting the required months to pay it off. We recently spend R650 000 on a new machine with a deposit of R300 000. The bank gave us the remaining R350 000 over 48 months on prime 9.5% , which means our monthly repayment is about R9500, so in total our repayment is R456 000.

Hope this helps.
 

DigitalSoldier

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Messages
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It's definitely a good start, the bank will in all likelihood give you the required monies if your current company signs a letter of intent to purchase x amount monthly, but you'll probably have to sign your life away.

It is however a bit risky only have "one client". What happens if things start slowing down, do you have the expertise to source work elsewhere?

Also keep in mind when purchasing machinery via the bank, interest it calculated in advance, with them setting the required months to pay it off. We recently spend R650 000 on a new machine with a deposit of R300 000. The bank gave us the remaining R350 000 over 48 months on prime 9.5% , which means our monthly repayment is about R9500, so in total our repayment is R456 000.

Hope this helps.

My current company will in all likelihood continue to give the work to me as they are feeling the pressure from clients to get results faster.

I am also busy designing a website and working on marketing the company to other clients which won't be too hard as most companies are tired and complaining about there being only one company and the turnaround time taking so long.

I have also emailed a past uni lecturer who specializes in ISO9001:2008 to help me implement this management system.
 
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