The Gauteng E-tolling Thread

[ToxicBunny]

In clear contravention of the CPA.

They will just amend the law to exclude the CPA like they've excluded the NCA as well.

 

[blunomore]

They will just amend the law to exclude the CPA like they've excluded the NCA as well.

That will take a while. Meantime, they are non-compliant, which is in favour of the road users.

 

[LazyLion]

And SANRAL's other problem is... that if they hand over the debt to the debt collectors, they are subject to the NCA and the CPA.. meaning that most of the debt handed over will be illegal!

 

[Tman*]

Still not good enough, they should give the ANC an ultimatum, scrap e-tolls or we withdraw from triapartheid (sic) alliance

Was listening to Dumisani Dakile during a radio interview. Cosatu has lost all credibility IMO. On the one hand he says they appose Etolls because it is implemented by "power drunk cadres". On the other hand he says that Cosatu will still campaign for the ANC in Gauteng.

Xolani Gwala from 702 had a little bit of fun with him at this stage, asking him: "So you are saying to the people, Vote ANC - even though they have ignored you?"

 

[Wyzak]

Nope I bet you next years elections will be .. boring. ANC will get their required 65% (Or close to that) - DA will gain a little.. the others will pale in comparison.

Its the same bull**** story over and over again for the last two decades now. People get up in arms over something the government did / did not do. The moan, bitch and have a cry in the corner. Come election time - ANC gets the vote.. again and again. Why?

It's possible that that could happen, but I remain hopeful.

Nothing the ANC has done in the last 2 decades has had a direct influence on everybody's pockets like this.

Those who take taxis (They're exempt), those who stay in rural areas and their main road is some dirt with no tolling. These people - the "majority" of the ANC votes are unaffected about the tolls and couldn't care less about it. So, that is points to the ANC, right there.

They may be exempt from e-tolling but they will feel it through price inflation. They are by far the most vulnerable to price inflation.

Any indication of what sort of delay one can expect between the eToll system and transactions reflecting on this site?

I know of at least two people who have driven through gantries over the last few days, who don't owe a single cent according to the e-toll page. Clearly there are some issues with the system which they are conveniently keeping on the down low.

That clearly can't even vaguely be right. The NCA is meant to protect the consumer... how can a private entities interests trump those of protecting the consumer. I honestly see that section of the amendment being struck out when it actually gets challenged in court.

It's SANRAL SOC (state owned company). They aren't a private company.

 

[Priapus]

And SANRAL's other problem is... that if they hand over the debt to the debt collectors, they are subject to the NCA and the CPA.. meaning that most of the debt handed over will be illegal!

Yeah would be nice if that was true. SANRAL will just put people in jail / arrest them in road blocks for not paying fees.

 

[Priapus]

It's possible that that could happen, but I remain hopeful.

Nothing the ANC has done in the last 2 decades has had a direct influence on everybody's pockets like this.
.

That is a good point. Secondly [in our favour] Mr. Shower head has stuffed up big time as president and in my opinion done a lot of damage to the ANC. I hope it comes out in the elections on just how much damage he has done. Small glimmer of hope if there was ever one...

 

[MrGray]

That will take a while. Meantime, they are non-compliant, which is in favour of the road users.

Read the SANRAL Act - it is quite clear that, by law, if you use a toll road, the owner of the vehicle is automatically deemed to have incurred the fee, and the onus is entirely on that person to determine what they owe and pay it.

I don't know if any of these laws will stand up in court, though.

 

[The_Unbeliever]

And COSATU enters the battle... GPO workers got told to "work extra slow" with SANRAL letters etc...

http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthr...il-quot-with-e-toll-letters-Post-Office-union

First time that this country is starting to stand up for something Let's hope the rest also grow a spine and some balls.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

 

[blunomore]

Nope I bet you next years elections will be .. boring. ANC will get their required 65% (Or close to that) - DA will gain a little.. the others will pale in comparison.

Its the same bull**** story over and over again for the last two decades now. People get up in arms over something the government did / did not do. The moan, bitch and have a cry in the corner. Come election time - ANC gets the vote.. again and again. Why?
Because people are too ****ing stupid to realise just how badly the government are screwing them. Stuff free t-shirts, ANC - rather give your people a free tub of lube...

I hope I am wrong and I hope SANRAL and the ANC soon see the repercussions of their actions or lack thereof.

Yes the roads are quite now and the idiots are, as you say "happy to pay 450p/m" for a open road. However come the second week of january and it will be gridlock again. What will typical South Africans do? - you guessed it... bitch and moan and throw their toys out the cot. That it. Nothing else. Come elections... they will go the same as the 2009 elections. And the pervious elections before that and so on.

You see, eTolls don't effect those outside the province. (Yet) they don't effect those without cars. Those who take taxis (They're exempt), those who stay in rural areas and their main road is some dirt with no tolling. These people - the "majority" of the ANC votes are unaffected about the tolls and couldn't care less about it. So, that is points to the ANC, right there.

Then we come to the whole Nkandla saga. The president spends 200 odd million rand of our money on his own house while there are people suffering from poverty, lack of education, decent hospitals, etc, etc - he does this...

What do South Africans do.. bitch and moan.. no repercussions for Mr. Shower head. Come elections.. ANC get the vote.

Sorry for the small (off topic rant) but this place makes me sick and the people who buy tags make me sick. You're accepting what the government are doing and condone it. Hell, they should tell you next to just jump off a cliff... guess what? you will bitch and moan and then just do what they say anyway.

Why do you think people were willing to take action against the govt pre-1994 but not now?

 

[OrbitalDawn]

It's SANRAL SOC (state owned company). They aren't a private company.

It's South African National Roads Agency SOC Limited.

 

[MrGray]

Yeah would be nice if that was true. SANRAL will just put people in jail / arrest them in road blocks for not paying fees.

Not paying a toll is a criminal offence - R1000 fine or jail + criminal record. I don't think the debt collector route is the real stick.

 

[blunomore]

Read the SANRAL Act - it is quite clear that, by law, if you use a toll road, the owner of the vehicle is automatically deemed to have incurred the fee, and the onus is entirely on that person to determine what they owe and pay it.

I don't know if any of these laws will stand up in court, though.

I do not think you understand. That act can say what it wants and I can read it a 1000 times, it is still in contravention of the CPA.

 

[MrGray]

I do not think you understand. That act can say what it wants and I can read it a 1000 times, it is still in contravention of the CPA.

I don't think you understand - the SANRAL Act is an Act of law as is the CPA. It will be up to a court to decide which has precedence.

 

[Noseworthy]

so yesterday I was stuck in traffic on Beyers and decided to pull over and see how many cars coming off the highway had tags. counted 4 in 200 cars

 

[LazyLion]

Yeah would be nice if that was true. SANRAL will just put people in jail / arrest them in road blocks for not paying fees.

And then you could sue them in turn for false arrest/kidnapping. They are a private company. They cannot arrest you.
They have to get the police to arrest you.

 

[The_Unbeliever]

so yesterday I was stuck in traffic on Beyers and decided to pull over and see how many cars coming off the highway had tags. counted 4 in 200 cars

Driving on Boeing Rd to work, I counted e-tagged cars - 1 in every 20 or so... maybe the e-tagged cars decided to cut costs a bit and left the highway at Nellmapius.

 

[Priapus]

And then you could sue them in turn for false arrest/kidnapping. They are a private company. They cannot arrest you.
They have to get the police to arrest you.

I did see a SANRAL double cab bakkie in the yellow lane this morning racing off somewhere. At first I thought it was me they were after as my car has no plates. But, they carried on...

So they cannot arrest you and would need to get the police involved.. nice to know, thanks.

 

[blunomore]

I don't think you understand - the SANRAL Act is an Act of law as is the CPA. It will be up to a court to decide which has precedence.

Section 2(9) of the CPA:

(9) If there is an inconsistency between any provision of this Act and a provision of any Act not contemplated in subsection (8)—
(a) the provisions of both Acts apply concurrently, to the extent that it is possible to apply and comply with one of the inconsistent provisions without contravening the second; and
(b) to the extent that paragraph (a) cannot apply, the provision that extends the greater protection to a consumer prevails over the alternative provision.