The Gauteng E-tolling Thread

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Wyzak said:
Wrongful arrest as MagicDude4Eva said.
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Cops will simply provide evidence backing their point of view at the time. AFAIK it's only wrongful arrest if they were inept and/or intentionally arrested the bloke knowing he was innocent. I guess at the time evidence pointed to him being the guilty party and subsequent investigation proved that premise to be false, or the case requires further investigation before the prosecution is happy to file official charges. I guess they could argue that they in fact did their job as required of them. Hell, they're trying to prove that a terrorist is on the loose.

Just because the prosecution has decided not to file charges at this point doesn't necessarily imply that he was wrongfully arrested. IMO at least. Someone with a better law background than myself can confirm or tell me I'm talking kark...:D
 
Hazarding a guess, they're unable to use the evidence until they find a signed code of conduct (or similar) where the employee has, in advance, authorised interception of communications.

The company would also need to provide proof that the telecommunications system concerned is used for wholly or partly business purposes, consented by the CEO (or authorised appointee), and the purpose of monitoring and keeping of records is to establish facts.
 
DJ... said:
Cops will simply provide evidence backing their point of view at the time. AFAIK it's only wrongful arrest if they were inept and/or intentionally arrested the bloke knowing he was innocent. I guess at the time evidence pointed to him being the guilty party and subsequent investigation proved that premise to be false, or the case requires further investigation before the prosecution is happy to file official charges. I guess they could argue that they in fact did their job as required of them. Hell, they're trying to prove that a terrorist is on the loose.
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If they have that evidence why not proceed with prosecution? IMO somebody should only be arrested when you have sufficient evidence for prosecution to succeed, or when he is an immediate danger to society and you need to hold him for as long as possible.

jingaling said:
Hazarding a guess, they're unable to use the evidence until they find a signed code of conduct (or similar) where the employee has, in advance, authorised interception of communications.

The company would also need to provide proof that the telecommunications system concerned is used for wholly or partly business purposes, consented by the CEO (or authorised appointee), and the purpose of monitoring and keeping of records is to establish facts.
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I also suspect that their interception of his communication was illegal and therefore inadmissible, and that they are now trying to find evidence that is admissible.
 
Apparently OUTA's latest count indicate a 55% tag rate :(

Looks like more and more sheep are accepting their shafting
 
45% un-tagged (even if true) is still fine by me and causing Sanral sleepless nights - take us to court!
 
I had an interesting chat with a guy this morning that went out and got e-tags for himself and his wife even though he doesn't agree with e-tolls. His rationale is that he couldn't be bothered with all the hassle of fighting the system and that if we should be protesting we should be protesting against the broader government corruption. I tried to explain that this is a small battle in a greater war that needs to be fought on many fronts, but his view was that those that are protesting are in a minority and have no chance of achieving anything, and that government will amend any laws they need to make e-tolls stick.

He said that if there was broader based mass action against the government then he'd be there.

He was also totally of the belief that if he didn't pay he wouldn't be able to renew his vehicle licences and was surprised when I told him that SCAMRAL can't do that, but the quickly followed up saying that they'll just get the law changed so that they can.

He listened to everything I said, but very much has a defeatist attitude and just feels all protests unless they are massive are a waste of time.
 
Ol' Mean Bastid said:
Apparently OUTA's latest count indicate a 55% tag rate :(

Looks like more and more sheep are accepting their shafting
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Even if there were 100% etag compliance, it still does not change the fact that many people cannot afford etrolling and their normal day to day expenses will take priority: etrolling bills will be the last to be paid and no one would borrow money (formal or informal loan) to pay etrolling fees.

Although the badly constructed RDP dwelling would probably apply for a loan to pay his etrolling fees, which the banks would summarily reject.
 
Ol' Mean Bastid said:
I had an interesting chat with a guy this morning that went out and got e-tags for himself and his wife even though he doesn't agree with e-tolls. His rationale is that he couldn't be bothered with all the hassle of fighting the system and that if we should be protesting we should be protesting against the broader government corruption. I tried to explain that this is a small battle in a greater war that needs to be fought on many fronts, but his view was that those that are protesting are in a minority and have no chance of achieving anything, and that government will amend any laws they need to make e-tolls stick.

He said that if there was broader based mass action against the government then he'd be there.

He was also totally of the belief that if he didn't pay he wouldn't be able to renew his vehicle licences and was surprised when I told him that SCAMRAL can't do that, but the quickly followed up saying that they'll just get the law changed so that they can.

He listened to everything I said, but very much has a defeatist attitude and just feels all protests unless they are massive are a waste of time.
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Frankly, if you get pay for e-tolls you shouldn't complain about being shafted by government or it's corruption.

I was at a braai last night, and one of the guys was telling about his struggle to get a letter from SANRAL stating that he had returned his e-tag. I know of at least one other person who has also returned their e-tags, so I wonder how that fits into their calculations.
 
Ol' Mean Bastid said:
I had an interesting chat with a guy this morning that went out and got e-tags for himself and his wife even though he doesn't agree with e-tolls. His rationale is that he couldn't be bothered with all the hassle of fighting the system and that if we should be protesting we should be protesting against the broader government corruption. I tried to explain that this is a small battle in a greater war that needs to be fought on many fronts, but his view was that those that are protesting are in a minority and have no chance of achieving anything, and that government will amend any laws they need to make e-tolls stick.

He said that if there was broader based mass action against the government then he'd be there.

He was also totally of the belief that if he didn't pay he wouldn't be able to renew his vehicle licences and was surprised when I told him that SCAMRAL can't do that, but the quickly followed up saying that they'll just get the law changed so that they can.

He listened to everything I said, but very much has a defeatist attitude and just feels all protests unless they are massive are a waste of time.
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jeeez, some people need to be smacked around the ears!
e-tolls are just about the only thing that we have the power over to fight govt corruption and to show that we have had enough

some people accept being arse raped and will never stand up for anything
 
No flaming please - I'm in serous need of advice and hoping the clever MyBB peeps can help.

I travel from the East Rand to Centurion and back for work every day.

I don't have an etag and checked my outstanding tolls with SATANRAL today.

For the month of January I'm on R2500. I double-checked the transactions, all legit.

I sure as hell can't afford R2500 per month for etolls, so what do I do?

Rack up a bill of R2500 a month for the next however long, until there's some kind of outcome either way - people are dragged to court for outstanding tolls, not being able to renew vehicle license discs are used as a method to force people to pay, by some divine intervention etolls are scrapped, or whatever else?

I cannot afford a bill of x times R2500 and I can't afford to not get to work - It's my only source of income.

Sadly for me there is no alternate route to work but the #%&$! tolled highways.

There must be other guys here in a similar position; What do you do, or what am I to do?

It'll be a cold sad day in hell when I have to go get one of those damned tags.
 
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FrankyF you have to decide that for yourself - you have to make a call on whether e-tolls will succeed or not - unfortunately many are in your situation and buckle under the pressure - there are however MANY that are still standing strong and Sanral is going to have a problem getting us all to court - if e-tolls succeed, which I doubt, there will be little else that this govt will not abuse us with
 
Bundu said:
FrankyF you have to decide that for yourself - you have to make a call on whether e-tolls will succeed or not - unfortunately many are in your situation and buckle under the pressure - there are however MANY that are still standing strong and Sanral is going to have a problem getting us all to court - if e-tolls succeed, which I doubt, there will be little else that this govt will not abuse us with
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this, soon tax will rise too.. with more tax on tax
 
Ol' Mean Bastid said:
I had an interesting chat with a guy this morning that went out and got e-tags for himself and his wife even though he doesn't agree with e-tolls. His rationale is that he couldn't be bothered with all the hassle of fighting the system and that if we should be protesting we should be protesting against the broader government corruption. I tried to explain that this is a small battle in a greater war that needs to be fought on many fronts, but his view was that those that are protesting are in a minority and have no chance of achieving anything, and that government will amend any laws they need to make e-tolls stick.

He said that if there was broader based mass action against the government then he'd be there.

He was also totally of the belief that if he didn't pay he wouldn't be able to renew his vehicle licences and was surprised when I told him that SCAMRAL can't do that, but the quickly followed up saying that they'll just get the law changed so that they can.

He listened to everything I said, but very much has a defeatist attitude and just feels all protests unless they are massive are a waste of time.
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His reasoning is retarded. If you protest against government corruption in general then it's basically a sure-fire way of achieving nothing. The government will just agree that it's a scourge and pay some more lip service before stealing the doughnuts from the table in the corner.

You have to make the fight about specific cases and issues. And he's complicit in government corruption by getting an eTag. Hard to fight against those you support.
 
FrankyF said:
I sure as hell can't afford R2500 per month for etolls, so what do I do?
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Your choice.

Sadly for me there is no alternate route to work but the #%&$! tolled highways.
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Where on the East Rand?
How about the M18 and M57 from Irene to Kempton Park?
I drive that route daily to avoid the R21 and it works fine for me.
I leave home before 6AM to avoid traffic.
Sure it takes me a little bit longer and I use a little bit more fuel but I refuse to support SANRAL in any way.
 
The SAPO is striking, haven't received a single letter for a few weeks now. So by the time they arrive all of the discount periods would have lapsed. That would really have made me angry if I had any intention of paying.
 
NO ETA GP

FrankyF said:
No flaming please - I'm in serous need of advice and hoping the clever MyBB peeps can help.
I travel from the East Rand to Centurion and back for work every day.
...
It'll be a cold sad day in hell when I have to go get one of those damned tags.
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Legal approaches:
  • Get WAZE for your smartphone and set it to avoid tolls. Maybe there are routes you can consider.
  • Make 40 friends with similar toll bills and contract with them to share fines.
Less legal approaches:
  • White or black out one of the digits of your number plate
  • Remove your number plates entirely
  • Get a motorbike with removable plates
  • Make up a number plate of your choice at a number plate shop
That last option will get you thrown in jail. The middle options may earn you an occasional fine, but at this stage, the fine is far less than you would pay at the most discounted discounted rate that sinral hits you with.
 
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Used the highways for the second time since ETolls started a week ago. Still no bills and I am still not tagging up or making any attempt to contact SANRAL. I strongly suspect that due to the massive levels of non compliance they will offer a honey pot of a payment Amnesty in a few months to try get more of us to cross over at that point. At that point people will be even more scared as some will have racked up bigger bills by then. I really hope this system fails and am trying to do my part to resist it.

Also I have family members that folded and bought etags in December that have now removed them from their vehicles and are refusing to pay so I am seeing resistance building actually.
 
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