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The Hunter named P0rn!
- Thread starter thiartc
- Start date
Pornolio
Expert Member
Hehehe... ok lemme see if I can slap something together. Gimme a few min's to build up a list of my personal findings + tips + tricks that worked for me.
Pornolio
Expert Member
Maaahhh 3.1 Hunter guidelines…
Before my wall of text crits you for 10000 ZzZz… Lets try keep it hunter topic focused, I don’t want to be flamed by smartasses with hunter banking alts. The points below are things I have built up together through my own reading up on various forums, tools like shandara’s spreadsheet , EJ forum posts from select hunters I have seen making sensible comments without talking out of their asses. In other words, guys backing up their statements with proof.
All I am doing is merely saving you a ton of reading up. As I usually say… use it, don’t use it…. Its up to you. It worked for me. Also I dont believe in target test dummies. Its a stupid benchmark since it doesnt simulate real raiding environment buffs + scaling + stacking.
Current form, top dps is still Survival > MM > BM.
Now there is tons of survival builds floating around but there are 2 in specific that seem to shine through the most in my personal experience. I am using one of them and my stats ALL got massive boosts. AP + crit + overall damage went up.
Lets start with pets : Survival + MM hunter – Get a wolf. End of story, nothing to discuss, lets move on.
BM hunters – Well umm, if you are playing BM you are not serious on DPS anyway, so get any pet that tickles your fancy.
Pet talent build - http://www.wowhead.com/?petcalc#0Md00cs00hok
I went with sharkattack on tier 6 since it scales very well with my Orc racial. Don’t be too phased with pet builds since you are not a BM. You need the wolf for the Howl buff. It pulls around 40 dps ahead of a cat, so it’s a very good idea to get the wolf. Get one from storm Peak Mountains in the cave, they are level 80 already. No need to do the painful leveling up of your pet.
Get rid of your quiver. You don’t need it anymore. More bagspace FTW. Haste buff from the quiver has been added to your autoshots.
Survival talent build no1 : (Best for hunters which are haste capped + have mana issues, and believe me you will have mana issues on hard mode bosses)
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?hun...0532134301331&glyph=000000000000&version=9767
Changes + mindsets you have to get use to now in 3.1.
Hunters are like warlocks now, its all about dots. Keep them dots up !!!! Get addons to monitor your dots. Lock and load NO longer procs from Serpent sting. Its all about Black arrow. Keep that baby ticking. Black arrow + serpent sting ticking together with raid buffs stacking = <3
There is no shot rotation, there is now a shot priority. For me, the following works best :
Kill shot > Explosive shot > Black arrow > serpent sting > aimed shot / multishot > steady shot.
Survival instincts + Sniper training now make aimed shot so much more worth it. Aimed shot is really a good shot to work in. If you don’t have those two talents, then don’t bother with aimed.
My build : ( Note I added one point in improved aspect of the hawk since I am not haste capped, but I might switch it around as my gear + stats changes.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#coZ0eVooZx0ci0cIhgdNhsu
Glyphs :
Ok there is a lot of speculation here, but I believe the top dogs that backed their claims. Here they are :
Glyph of steady shot, Glyph of kill shot, Glyph of serpent sting.
For us as South African raiding hunters its all about saving on GCD’s. We HAVE to cut down on GCD’s. This is where the Glyph of serpent sting comes in. Having glyph of serpent sting, means around 9 GCD’s per fight less to worry about renewing the dots. Even more on hard mode bosses. That’s a TON of dps. Now adding glyph of steady with glyph of serpent, it should all make sense to you. More ticks for longer means more steady’s @ 10% damage boost, with less renewals.
The kill shot glyph was interesting. Keep in mind there are bosses in Ulduar with 30 mill HP. So if you think about it, at 20 % HP, you can work in a ton of Kill shots thanks to that glyph. You are talking of 15k shots all the time. You will notice during the last 20 % of the boss fight, how you jump in DPS thanks to this glyph. Doing bosses in hardmode later on, this glyph will only prove to be more valuable.
Ok enchants + gear :
Survival is all about agility. If you haven’t got the darkmoon faire trinket yet… BAD HUNTER !!! Go tame a murlock as punishment. Get the damn trinket, I can’t emphasize it enough.
Replace your old blue socket gems ( 16 AP + 12 Stam ) with the new ( 8 agility + 12 Stam) ones released in 3.1. The new talent “Hunting Party” makes survival insanely powerful with “Lightning reflexes” combined. If you are not sure why I stated “Hunting party”, go read the new tool tip.
Flasks / elixirs. – I go with a Flask of endless rage and use pet food on my pet, and I eat the +40 agility dragonfin fish food.
Some hunters prefer the agility elixir and the Intellect elixir since both are valuable. On longer Boss fights when we do hardmode, I will most likely go with the 2 x elixirs for the additional mana gains.
Dark horses that needs more theorycrafting + testing :
Getting the tier 8 / 8.5 set bonusses, will mean one thing, even better dot tick damage... now if you look at all the talents in MM tree (improved stings), It kind of makes me think, reshuffling talents around to get 3 points in there... that 10% damage boost from stings + the set bonus on the tier 8 will mean insane scaling. Dont quote me on it, its just there to think about at this point in time. Next, Ignore armor items. 3.1 means 25 % buff to ignore armor stats. Grim toll does look very promising now doesnt it
Sad part is, remember Explosive shot does NOT benefit from armor penetration stats + trinkets.
Ok my fingers now suffer from exhaustion… (sated debuff). Will post more later on.
Before my wall of text crits you for 10000 ZzZz… Lets try keep it hunter topic focused, I don’t want to be flamed by smartasses with hunter banking alts. The points below are things I have built up together through my own reading up on various forums, tools like shandara’s spreadsheet , EJ forum posts from select hunters I have seen making sensible comments without talking out of their asses. In other words, guys backing up their statements with proof.
All I am doing is merely saving you a ton of reading up. As I usually say… use it, don’t use it…. Its up to you. It worked for me. Also I dont believe in target test dummies. Its a stupid benchmark since it doesnt simulate real raiding environment buffs + scaling + stacking.
Current form, top dps is still Survival > MM > BM.
Now there is tons of survival builds floating around but there are 2 in specific that seem to shine through the most in my personal experience. I am using one of them and my stats ALL got massive boosts. AP + crit + overall damage went up.
Lets start with pets : Survival + MM hunter – Get a wolf. End of story, nothing to discuss, lets move on.
BM hunters – Well umm, if you are playing BM you are not serious on DPS anyway, so get any pet that tickles your fancy.
Pet talent build - http://www.wowhead.com/?petcalc#0Md00cs00hok
I went with sharkattack on tier 6 since it scales very well with my Orc racial. Don’t be too phased with pet builds since you are not a BM. You need the wolf for the Howl buff. It pulls around 40 dps ahead of a cat, so it’s a very good idea to get the wolf. Get one from storm Peak Mountains in the cave, they are level 80 already. No need to do the painful leveling up of your pet.
Get rid of your quiver. You don’t need it anymore. More bagspace FTW. Haste buff from the quiver has been added to your autoshots.
Survival talent build no1 : (Best for hunters which are haste capped + have mana issues, and believe me you will have mana issues on hard mode bosses)
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?hun...0532134301331&glyph=000000000000&version=9767
Changes + mindsets you have to get use to now in 3.1.
Hunters are like warlocks now, its all about dots. Keep them dots up !!!! Get addons to monitor your dots. Lock and load NO longer procs from Serpent sting. Its all about Black arrow. Keep that baby ticking. Black arrow + serpent sting ticking together with raid buffs stacking = <3
There is no shot rotation, there is now a shot priority. For me, the following works best :
Kill shot > Explosive shot > Black arrow > serpent sting > aimed shot / multishot > steady shot.
Survival instincts + Sniper training now make aimed shot so much more worth it. Aimed shot is really a good shot to work in. If you don’t have those two talents, then don’t bother with aimed.
My build : ( Note I added one point in improved aspect of the hawk since I am not haste capped, but I might switch it around as my gear + stats changes.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#coZ0eVooZx0ci0cIhgdNhsu
Glyphs :
Ok there is a lot of speculation here, but I believe the top dogs that backed their claims. Here they are :
Glyph of steady shot, Glyph of kill shot, Glyph of serpent sting.
For us as South African raiding hunters its all about saving on GCD’s. We HAVE to cut down on GCD’s. This is where the Glyph of serpent sting comes in. Having glyph of serpent sting, means around 9 GCD’s per fight less to worry about renewing the dots. Even more on hard mode bosses. That’s a TON of dps. Now adding glyph of steady with glyph of serpent, it should all make sense to you. More ticks for longer means more steady’s @ 10% damage boost, with less renewals.
The kill shot glyph was interesting. Keep in mind there are bosses in Ulduar with 30 mill HP. So if you think about it, at 20 % HP, you can work in a ton of Kill shots thanks to that glyph. You are talking of 15k shots all the time. You will notice during the last 20 % of the boss fight, how you jump in DPS thanks to this glyph. Doing bosses in hardmode later on, this glyph will only prove to be more valuable.
Ok enchants + gear :
Survival is all about agility. If you haven’t got the darkmoon faire trinket yet… BAD HUNTER !!! Go tame a murlock as punishment. Get the damn trinket, I can’t emphasize it enough.
Replace your old blue socket gems ( 16 AP + 12 Stam ) with the new ( 8 agility + 12 Stam) ones released in 3.1. The new talent “Hunting Party” makes survival insanely powerful with “Lightning reflexes” combined. If you are not sure why I stated “Hunting party”, go read the new tool tip.
Flasks / elixirs. – I go with a Flask of endless rage and use pet food on my pet, and I eat the +40 agility dragonfin fish food.
Some hunters prefer the agility elixir and the Intellect elixir since both are valuable. On longer Boss fights when we do hardmode, I will most likely go with the 2 x elixirs for the additional mana gains.
Dark horses that needs more theorycrafting + testing :
Getting the tier 8 / 8.5 set bonusses, will mean one thing, even better dot tick damage... now if you look at all the talents in MM tree (improved stings), It kind of makes me think, reshuffling talents around to get 3 points in there... that 10% damage boost from stings + the set bonus on the tier 8 will mean insane scaling. Dont quote me on it, its just there to think about at this point in time. Next, Ignore armor items. 3.1 means 25 % buff to ignore armor stats. Grim toll does look very promising now doesnt it
Sad part is, remember Explosive shot does NOT benefit from armor penetration stats + trinkets.
Ok my fingers now suffer from exhaustion… (sated debuff). Will post more later on.
semaphore
Honorary Master
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2007
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http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?hun...0503135301131&glyph=101116030401&version=9684
how is this build..
Night elf
how is this build..
Night elf
Pornolio
Expert Member
Ok I have seen that build mentioned very seldomly on the theorycrafter sites. I also questioned the whole improved aspect of the hawk talents. Your build has a lot of the old legacy pre 3.1 talents in them.
Lemme try explain. The key points you are missing in that build is :
Shaving the cooldown on your Black arrow shot from the talent "resourcefullness". I tried playing without points in resourcefullness but I ended up waiting and waiting and waiting for black arrow cooldowns. The cooldown on the black arrow is pretty punishing considering its value in the overall picture of hunter dps contribution. You want black arrow up all the time. I had 2 points there, but ended up going with 3 points at the end of the day, that talent does add up in the end. Its pretty important.
Also, the master tactician is one place you can shave some points off. Remember the key to the survival tree is massive crit. We have that already. At peak times, I am sitting at 70% crit, so if it means I loose 2% crit from allready 60% + crit during most of the fight, its a small price to pay.
Aimed shot is another key point you are missing, which I explained at the top, you have all the other talents points that make it allready a potent shot, you are just not spec'd with aimed
So running with survival instincts + sniper training 3/3 means aimed shot is pretty decent ... I am seeing average 7 / 8k damage shots from aimed shots now with those talents raid buffed !
Give it a try, if you experience worse of dps, you can always fall back to your existing build. I have tried running with 5/5 aspect of the hawk, but my dps took a massive dip.
Kinda nice with dual specs if you wanna bench them back to back !
Pornolio
Expert Member
32.79 haste points will give you 1 percent haste if memory serves me right.
The haste cap is afaik still 523, but looking at current gear sets, Its pretty much impossible to be haste capped with existing gear, unless you purposefully sabotage your character (or unless you are a BM and still stacking insane Haste items)
The haste cap is afaik still 523, but looking at current gear sets, Its pretty much impossible to be haste capped with existing gear, unless you purposefully sabotage your character
(or unless you are a BM and still stacking insane Haste items)Last couple of days i got some nice lootz
Sunday the general dropped a nice polearm, then last night a chain bound dragon droped some pants, a dude onfire dropped a nice ring, a 3 man council dropped a nice cloak and a big dude with huge arms dropped me a gun, now i just need some T8 (2 warrior tanks got prio on all the warrior hunter shammy tokens), but who am i to complain.
Sunday the general dropped a nice polearm, then last night a chain bound dragon droped some pants, a dude onfire dropped a nice ring, a 3 man council dropped a nice cloak and a big dude with huge arms dropped me a gun, now i just need some T8 (2 warrior tanks got prio on all the warrior hunter shammy tokens), but who am i to complain.
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The master hunter have spoken, thanks Porn for your tips once again.
I am one of those other hunters that went MM spec for raiding. But if we get an enhancement shaman for our raid setup again, that will change.
But then again, my hunter is slowly becoming my bank char
I am one of those other hunters that went MM spec for raiding. But if we get an enhancement shaman for our raid setup again, that will change.
But then again, my hunter is slowly becoming my bank char
Pornolio
Expert Member
Anytime Werries
Just an interresting update... Dont underestimate MM builds. Deep in Ulduar, MM pulls ahead of Survival. Later inside Ulduar there is just so much running around, sniper training just doesnt get to kick in or stay up.
Depending on your role in the raid, you might just find the MM build more usefull than Survival. For Yogg-Saron, you will find nothing beats MM !
I ended up going MM for my Dual Spec. So early bosses its survival, and once there is loads of running around required, MM pulls ahead.
Only problem with MM is the mana ofc... its a bastard on mana usage.
Most top MM hunters go with a wind serpent to aid them with mana problems.
Just an interresting update... Dont underestimate MM builds. Deep in Ulduar, MM pulls ahead of Survival. Later inside Ulduar there is just so much running around, sniper training just doesnt get to kick in or stay up.
Depending on your role in the raid, you might just find the MM build more usefull than Survival. For Yogg-Saron, you will find nothing beats MM !
I ended up going MM for my Dual Spec. So early bosses its survival, and once there is loads of running around required, MM pulls ahead.
Only problem with MM is the mana ofc... its a bastard on mana usage.
Most top MM hunters go with a wind serpent to aid them with mana problems.
Pornolio
Expert Member
Yea honestly if you have jacked up pallies + shadow priests, then mana is ok. As it is now, I must sit and drink after every bloody trash mob pull.
The best setup you guys can have, is having a survival + MM hunter both in the raid. That way you get the imba +10 % AP buff to everyone, + replenishment from the survival hunter
Oh yea, depending on wheter you guys **cough**cheat**using gaming mechanics**cough** on the Yogg-Saron boss pull, make sure your hunters have improved range for the phase 1 nuking of adds.
Improved range is almost a definate requirement.
The best setup you guys can have, is having a survival + MM hunter both in the raid. That way you get the imba +10 % AP buff to everyone, + replenishment from the survival hunter
Oh yea, depending on wheter you guys **cough**cheat**using gaming mechanics**cough** on the Yogg-Saron boss pull, make sure your hunters have improved range for the phase 1 nuking of adds.
Improved range is almost a definate requirement.
Our problem is SP's have become scarce again.
We recently had one join us but it's been months since we had one before that till he got RL pwned.
Our Ret pallies are good though but right now our biggest source of Replenishment is our Hunters since we typically have 3 in our Raids.
Our Space Chicken is thankfully very good about attending Raids so we pretty much have perma 3% Spell Hit and we've got a solid Enhance so 10% AP is always covered from him and in a pinch I'm providing it since I tank as Blood on my DK.
We recently had one join us but it's been months since we had one before that till he got RL pwned.
Our Ret pallies are good though but right now our biggest source of Replenishment is our Hunters since we typically have 3 in our Raids.
Our Space Chicken is thankfully very good about attending Raids so we pretty much have perma 3% Spell Hit and we've got a solid Enhance so 10% AP is always covered from him and in a pinch I'm providing it since I tank as Blood on my DK.
Pornolio
Expert Member
Quick Update...
Tier 8/8.5 2 x set bonus was "silently" fixed on the latest patch for marksman hunters. Bout bloody time.
source :
http://elitistjerks.com/f74/t30710-wotlk_dps_spreadsheet/p102/
Tier 8/8.5 2 x set bonus was "silently" fixed on the latest patch for marksman hunters. Bout bloody time.
source :
http://elitistjerks.com/f74/t30710-wotlk_dps_spreadsheet/p102/
I also see they say the 4 x t 8bonus is not worth it anymore.
I have all 8.5 and replacements in all the slots, will have a look if 1 other and 4 t8.5 or 3 other and 2 x t8.5 gives the better dps
The Lootlevitan gloves (gloves of the fiery behemoth)is the best to replace a t8.5 with in the 1 and 4 combination but not check a 3 and 2 combination.
I have all 8.5 and replacements in all the slots, will have a look if 1 other and 4 t8.5 or 3 other and 2 x t8.5 gives the better dps
The Lootlevitan gloves (gloves of the fiery behemoth)is the best to replace a t8.5 with in the 1 and 4 combination but not check a 3 and 2 combination.