The "Is Windows 8 a Flop?" Thread

Bobbin said:
The old start menu is no longer necessary and I ask why one would think it still is. Granted the UI forces one to adopt a different way to navigate so that laptops, desktops, smartphones and tablets can all be standardized the resistance to the change is accompanied by poor justification to the small inconvenience simply based on personal preference and unwillingness to adapt to something that would take maximum 20 minutes to learn.

If you want to keep your desktop free of shortcuts simply pin your fav applications on the windows 8 start interface, I don't see what the problem is.

And if start menu and great performance expectation are all that get in the way of anyone's preference to Windows 8 I would laugh at these little trifles when there could have been more serious concerns had the OS really been poorly designed or executed.
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Bobbin, I know it's a difficult time to be working for Microsoft SA, but seriously dude, ol' Steven Sinofsky screwed up big time.

With only 1.43% market share so far, windows 8 is a serious flop. If you ramble on about how cool Windows 8 is, then just please stop for a few moments & tell me EXACTLY what is better. I would really like to know.

The Start menu is definitely still necessary, unless you like to constantly have to switch between the Start Screen and Desktop, which is retarded to start with (no pun intended).
 
Roman4604 said:
In OSX what is the quickest way to start an app that happens not to be pinned to the Dock?
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I use an app launcher (Quicksilver), others use spotlight, others might use launchpad, others might create app shortcuts or go straight to the app folder . . . plenty of ways to skin that cat.
 
bwana said:
I use an app launcher (Quicksilver), others use spotlight, others might use launchpad, others might create app shortcuts or go straight to the app folder . . . plenty of ways to skin that cat.
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Yes but from my experience, the 'natural' method without any customisation is to use LaunchPad, whether via Dock icon or dedicated key (F4 on MBA).

My point is that this is not too dissimilar from Win8's Start (assuming your frequent apps are pinned to the Taskbar). Just another full screen app launching menu.
 
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Roman4604 said:
Yes but from my experience, the 'natural' method without any customisation is to use LaunchPad, whether via Dock icon or dedicated key (F4 on MBA).
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I use Spotlight if the App is not in the dock, or I click on the Application icon or I "Right Click" on the actual document and use Open With.

My point is that this is not too dissimilar from Win8's Start (assuming your frequent apps are pinned to the Taskbar). Just another full screen app launching menu.
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Yeah, except in Windows the "natural" way since Win95 has been to use the Start Menu. Desktop icons are another way. Start -> Run -> Type in name is another way. The more ways, the better. It really does not cost MS a lot to keep the Start Menu there. The Start Menu is especially useful when installing new apps with many sub-applets or when using a brand new system or someone else's computer. One can reduce the menu opening delays to 0 and then there is no waiting at all.

Point about going to OSX was that at least Apple keeps to their old conventions.
 
kingrob said:
Bobbin, I know it's a difficult time to be working for Microsoft SA, but seriously dude, ol' Steven Sinofsky screwed up big time.

With only 1.43% market share so far, windows 8 is a serious flop. If you ramble on about how cool Windows 8 is, then just please stop for a few moments & tell me EXACTLY what is better. I would really like to know.

The Start menu is definitely still necessary, unless you like to constantly have to switch between the Start Screen and Desktop, which is retarded to start with (no pun intended).
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I have never been a real defender of MS but some of the points I have made seem to be invalid :/ or just generally ignored. I never stated how cool win8 is, I explained the potential future trend in the market where MS has made a move to try fit in which may one day work in their favour, and I explained how/why the negatives of the start menu etc... are poor arguments against win8. At least this is what I remember without going back to check my posts as I don't care that much whether or not I misspoke anywhere and forgot.

The switch between start screen and desktop is quite seamless for me, but if that doesn't work for you I honestly don't see why not but it would probably be a bit naïve of me to expect others to have the same idea of it. Just not understanding :(
 
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Space_Chief said:
It's not self evident why it is not longer necessary. Many of us think it still IS NECESSARY. On what grounds do you say it is not necessary.



OMW? So we must now navigate a PC with mouse and keyboard the same way that one navigates a touch screen slate device? Obviously that's absurd.





That's nonsense. Imagine if the car industry did that. Or the telephone industry. Or the TV industry. Or the medical industry. This is BS. I'm surprised you don't see it.

Your argument is:
Tablet devices are the future and therefore mouse and keyboard computer users must pretend to use a touch interface.




Or get a $5 Start Button replacement and do things fast and well the way you've done since 1994.



Just because you like something does not mean everyone has to like it. Many of us think Win8 sucks. Your "but it does not suck" is not a rebuttal.

For the onlookers, this is one more reason to move to an OSX or Linux device. Thankfully MS is losing marketshare.
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Reconsidering the things I have said about the shift in market towards mobile computing and standardization, the general resistance to change to be expected, your rather strange comparison of a rather minor UI change with a major industry or hardware change, your assumption that I implied the mouse and keyboard is invalid somehow (which still work absolutely fine if not better in Win8), your willingness to stick to 1994 as if that is progression somehow, and my stating that I believe there is nothing wrong with the Win8 UI is according to you somehow a justification for further distaste of the product where I am simply showing how I don't see the justification of all the negatives ... I have no further comment :) You win.
 
Space_Chief said:
I use Spotlight if the App is not in the dock
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You realise this method is almost identical in Win8 (click left-bottom & type few letters, click app icon)

Space_Chief said:
Point about going to OSX was that at least Apple keeps to their old conventions.
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Yes but this is meaningless to a Win7 user. The functional navigation logic of Win8 and OSX ML are very similar, both equally as foreign to Win7.
 
Bobbin said:
Reconsidering the things I have said about the shift in market towards mobile computing and standardization, the general resistance to change to be expected, your rather strange comparison of a rather minor UI change with a major industry or hardware change, your assumption that I implied the mouse and keyboard is invalid somehow (which still work absolutely fine if not better in Win8), your willingness to stick to 1994 as if that is progression somehow, and my stating that I believe there is nothing wrong with the Win8 UI is according to you somehow a justification for further distaste of the product where I am simply showing how I don't see the justification of all the negatives ... I have no further comment :) You win.
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Bobbin, my willingness to stick to 1994 stems from the fact that I'm a human being. I am used to doing certain things in a certain way on a device which still has the same keyboard, mouse and screen as the 1994 device had i.e. PC (notebook/desktop). I don't see standardization as an excuse because the device I'm using is a 1994 device with an i7 processor, maybe 16GB of RAM and 1GB GPU, but the human interface devices are still the same. I don't see how forcing a tablet design on such a machine is beneficial to me.

It would not kill MS to keep things the same for those with mice and keyboards and do whatever they wish to do for those with touchscreens, right? :)
 
Roman4604 said:
You realise this method is almost identical in Win8 (click left-bottom & type few letters, click app icon)
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You missed the point.

Yes but this is meaningless to a Win7 user. The functional navigation logic of Win8 and OSX ML are very similar, both equally as foreign to Win7.
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It's definitely not meaningless. What do you mean by that? Keeping conventions is what all of human society and culture is based on. Imagine if each of us created a new language every few years or a new alphabet or a new way of driving. Yet as mentioned the PC industry has that approach - just change stuff, let these user idiots who pay our salaries just learn new ways to do the same stuff differently because it's cool to do that. Well that just sucks. It doesn't have to be this way.

Now we're back to a Program Manager Win 2.x interface. Great. Now all I need to do is forget the last 20 years.
 
It looks like things are not going swimmingly for Win8 on desktops and laptops:

Net Applications says that for December only, 1.7 percent of desktops, notebooks, and laptops using the Web used Windows 8.

How bad is that? InfoWorld's Woody Leonhard notes that at the same time in Windows 7's life cycle, it had a 21 percent market share.

At the same two-month mark in Vista's release timetable, that OS accounted for 2.2% of all Windows systems, double the month prior.
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Worse than Vista? Could ANYTHING be worse than Vista?
 
Space_Chief said:
Bobbin, my willingness to stick to 1994 stems from the fact that I'm a human being. I am used to doing certain things in a certain way on a device which still has the same keyboard, mouse and screen as the 1994 device had i.e. PC (notebook/desktop). I don't see standardization as an excuse because the device I'm using is a 1994 device with an i7 processor, maybe 16GB of RAM and 1GB GPU, but the human interface devices are still the same. I don't see how forcing a tablet design on such a machine is beneficial to me.

It would not kill MS to keep things the same for those with mice and keyboards and do whatever they wish to do for those with touchscreens, right? :)
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Do you still use a 3310 with Symbian on it? The new phones all have the same basic elements and yet they have changed for the better.

rwenzori said:
It looks like things are not going swimmingly for Win8 on desktops and laptops:



Worse than Vista? Could ANYTHING be worse than Vista?
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When 7 came out everybody wanted to switch from Vista so the uptake was huge. MS's big problem is that they made Windows 7 too damn good so there is no real reason to switch to 8 unless you use a touch screen tablet or PC.
 
Crowley said:
When 7 came out everybody wanted to switch from Vista so the uptake was huge. MS's big problem is that they made Windows 7 too damn good so there is no real reason to switch to 8 unless you use a touch screen tablet or PC.
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Oh there is a reason all right, just not one that you will see right away. Wait for Windows RT(Not to be confused with Windows RT the arm OS) apps. Also I do believe that the new version of Direct X will not be supported on older versions like Windows 7 and below. Its the whole if you can not persuade them then force them move hidden in the background.
 
Anyone else finding that whenever they install something new, the Start menu reorganizes itself? I've got a nice order going there and it's grinding my nerves.
 
AlphaJohn said:
Oh there is a reason all right, just not one that you will see right away. Wait for Windows RT(Not to be confused with Windows RT the arm OS) apps. Also I do believe that the new version of Direct X will not be supported on older versions like Windows 7 and below. Its the whole if you can not persuade them then force them move hidden in the background.
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I reckon Windows 7 might be my last Microsoft OS ever.....

Next might be Android OS, by plugging in my quad core Galaxy S4 into a 27'' screen. It will happen, rather sooner than later.

My love for blu-ray discs will continue with my PS3 in the living room, and that was about the only concern I would have had.
 
kingrob said:
I reckon Windows 7 might be my last Microsoft OS ever.....

Next might be Android OS, by plugging in my quad core Galaxy S4 into a 27'' screen. It will happen, rather sooner than later.

My love for blu-ray discs will continue with my PS3 in the living room, and that was about the only concern I would have had.
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If this happened generally speaking I would be very very happy :) big android fan myself. I think a new console is coming out this year with XBMC media center and running the android OS.

Android is already a potential gaming platform with minimal resource demand and capacity to do way more than it does at the moment. Probably the same goes for iOS but I am not familiar with it.
 
Crowley said:
Do you still use a 3310 with Symbian on it? The new phones all have the same basic elements and yet they have changed for the better.
Click to expand...

Keypad, green and red keys, etc are all basically the same.

So yeah, no fundamental UI changes.
 
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