The Syrian Conflict Thread

Xarog said:
No, only certain aspects of foreign policy. Niether side will talk seriously about the influence on politics from the MIC, for example. And yet its influence is decisive in all foreign policy decisions. Similarly the influence of the Dollar hegemony and the need to sustain it in terms of foreign policy decisions. No matter which clown is in the king-clown chair, the decisions will be exactly the same, and the other clowns will poke fun at the performance regardless.

In fact, that's precisely what distinguishes Ron Paul from all the other sods. He's an honest politician. And that's why he'd never get elected. The establishment would do anything to sabotage him, much like they've tried to do to Trump and Sanders.
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I know its not all aspects, the fact remain is that its some aspects, the same cant be said for Syria. Oh and i don't believe Ron Paul is honest in the slightest. He's a form of propaganda as well.
 
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Unhappy438 said:
I know its not all aspects, the fact remain is that its some aspects, the same cant be said for Syria. Oh and i don't believe Ron Paul is honest in the slightest. He's a form of propaganda as well.
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You think he doesn't really believe what he says? You should listen to him talk sometime. If he's a liar, his ability to do so while being true to the principles of libertarianism is flawless.

And by the same token, in many ways that Syria is unable to lie about itself, the United States is completely capable of lying about itself and does lie about itself. Thus when it comes to questions of honesty, stating that Syria is somehow more dishonest simply because of its governmental structure is to not tell the full truth.
 
Xarog said:
You think he doesn't really believe what he says? You should listen to him talk sometime. If he's a liar, his ability to do so while being true to the principles of libertarianism is flawless.
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I don't believe you can get anywhere in American politics, in fact in most countries politics without being a liar.

Xarog said:
And by the same token, in many ways that Syria is unable to lie about itself, the United States is completely capable of lying about itself and does lie about itself. Thus when it comes to questions of honesty, stating that Syria is somehow more dishonest simply because of its governmental structure is to not tell the full truth.
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A government with less to answer for is naturally less truthful, in most cases at least. Sure there are other factors involved though.
 
Unhappy438 said:
No it doesn't but as i've already said to Narrowband, Assad is the only one with helicopters here.
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Ok, how do you know that helicopters were used in the recent strikes which we've been talking about that happened just the other day? How do you know that someone isn't trying to manufacture a pretext to justify an aggressive act?
 
Unhappy438 said:
I don't believe you can get anywhere in American politics, in fact in most countries politics without being a liar.
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Ah, so he's just assumed to be dishonest by default?

A government with less to answer for is naturally less truthful, in most cases at least. Sure there are other factors involved though.
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A government only has to answer the questions its populace thinks to ask. If you control what questions they ask, what difference does it make? That's what controlling the narrative means, doesn't it? That's precisely the benefit accrued to the United States through its media dominance, isn't it?
 
Yoh this thread ran in the night, I'm impressed! :)

I'd like to take a pause and focus on things we agree on for a change, so the below I quote for truth as I do in fact agree with them.

Unhappy438 said:
As if i ever denied it wasn't, the Russian propaganda campaign is real, open your eyes. See i can also make silly comments.
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Although I don't think it is a silly comment.

Unhappy438 said:
I don't believe you can get anywhere in American politics, in fact in most countries politics without being a liar.
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Which is why Ron Paul didn't really make it anywhere perhaps? Absolutely loved his grillings of Ben Bernanke in congress, fwiw I referred to the article in question as Ron Paul simply because I didn't notice the author and made an assumption, else I'd have said "someone from the Ron Paul institute".
 
Xarog said:
Ok, how do you know that helicopters were used in the recent strikes which we've been talking about that happened just the other day?
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The videos of the attacks show high flying fast jets, the talk of helicopters has just been an attempt to obfuscate the discussion.

How do you know that someone isn't trying to manufacture a pretext to justify an aggressive act?
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I made the same comment a page or 2 ago, Turkeys belligerent stance and the sudden increase in alleged unjustified bombing seems remarkably coincidental.
 
Xarog said:
Ok, how do you know that helicopters were used in the recent strikes which we've been talking about that happened just the other day? How do you know that someone isn't trying to manufacture a pretext to justify an aggressive act?
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The helicopters are not related to these recent incidents and regarding a pretext i've already answered these with Dave. Plenty of hospitals have been bombed in the past, it doesn't work as a pretext for something like a ground invasion. Occam's razor suggests Syria/Russia bombed these hospitals, most likely Syria with their past considered.
 
NarrowBandFtw said:
Although I don't think it is a silly comment.
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Its silly in the sense of making comments like the grass is green or the sky is blue. I doubt anyone participating in this talk actually denies the existence of Russian or US propaganda.
 
Unhappy438 said:
The helicopters are not related to these recent incidents and regarding a pretext i've already answered these with Dave. Plenty of hospitals have been bombed in the past, it doesn't work as a pretext for something like a ground invasion. Occam's razor suggests Syria/Russia bombed these hospitals, most likely Syria with their past considered.
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Well, high flying jets rules out Turkey anyway. The Russians can shoot at any jet the moment it takes off from Incirlik, iirc. I highly doubt Turkey would risk their jet getting shot down for the purposes of a _false flag_ attack. Not even Erdogan can be that stupid.

And on the other hand, if Syria is trying to mop up the resistance in Aleppo as fast as possible because of the imminent direct involvement of Turkey and Saudi Arabia (which is a threat Syria's govt cannot reasonably ignore), then going after the hospitals makes a lot of sense.
 
Unhappy438 said:
Its silly in the sense of making comments like the grass is green or the sky is blue. I doubt anyone participating in this talk actually denies the existence of Russian or US propaganda.
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That's not what I meant. I meant that you should be mindful of the existence of the propaganda when people in this thread become skeptical/critical about something. They have a good reason to want to scrutinise things.
 
Unhappy438 said:
Its silly in the sense of making comments like the grass is green or the sky is blue. I doubt anyone participating in this talk actually denies the existence of Russian or US propaganda.
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Fair enough, I suspect we all have different ways of dealing with that propaganda with wildly varying results however. When I see people dismiss a news source outright it makes me wonder how they can see through the propaganda of the "their own side" if they only expose themselves to one view.

Not referring to you in particular, although you did seem to dismiss the Ron Paul institute quite quickly. I've seen much worse and I don't see how those individuals could possibly have any grip on the truth.
 
Xarog said:
That's not what I meant. I meant that you should be mindful of the existence of the propaganda when people in this thread become skeptical/critical about something. They have a good reason to want to scrutinise things.
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I understand that but i feel the scrutiny doesn't always go both ways with you.
 
Unhappy438 said:
No...
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You said it yourself, they can't treat the wounded if there are no hospitals. If the arms supply lines to the resistance in Aleppo is cut off, then they can only last a limited amount of time anyway. At some point they will surrender because they don't want to die. Achieving that surrender is a psychological battle as much as anything else.
 
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