The worst-case scenario for the DA

The worst-case scenario for the DA

Political analyst Frans Cronje outlines a potential negative chain of events for the Democratic Alliance (DA) that the party should avoid.

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

The democrats made the rules. Now everyone plays by them

It's funny watching them currently scramble and pretend they are centre left when they've been behaving like loony lefty retards for ages. Barack and Hillary are now back to preaching borders and immigration control

Soon even the tranny lovers will be harder to find than a new dawner...

 

[satanboy]

#saelections24 #sadecides2024 #election2024 #2024isour1994 | Mbasa Mvenene | 48 comments

Hey friends and colleagues, this infographic was inspired by a video posted by Darren Campher on TikTok. The video was a detailed response to the question: Who do we vote for? for those of us who have no idea about politics. Link to the video: https://lnkd.in/djmi8BE6 To answer the above...

www.linkedin.com

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

View attachment 1886876

#saelections24 #sadecides2024 #election2024 #2024isour1994 | Mbasa Mvenene | 48 comments

Hey friends and colleagues, this infographic was inspired by a video posted by Darren Campher on TikTok. The video was a detailed response to the question: Who do we vote for? for those of us who have no idea about politics. Link to the video: https://lnkd.in/djmi8BE6 To answer the above...

www.linkedin.com

How is far-right fascist or libertarian, which is the north-south axis?

 

[Ykv]

It was warped long before Trump. Largely by Americans. It's become so stupidly polarised on individual issues at this point that now people think something as milk-toast as the DA is extreme.

Extreme left is communism. Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot. The DA are weedy squibs compared to those genuine monsters. The DA is busy auctioning off government land in Cape Town to the private sector. OMG THE EXTREME LEFT!!!

Extreme right is fascism. Hitler, Mussolini. Trump is a flabby orange poser compared to those genuine monsters.

The entire thing was flawed from the start. What exactly makes Hitler different than Stalin? Both were autocratic murderous regimes.

 

[Ykv]

View attachment 1886876

#saelections24 #sadecides2024 #election2024 #2024isour1994 | Mbasa Mvenene | 48 comments

Hey friends and colleagues, this infographic was inspired by a video posted by Darren Campher on TikTok. The video was a detailed response to the question: Who do we vote for? for those of us who have no idea about politics. Link to the video: https://lnkd.in/djmi8BE6 To answer the above...

www.linkedin.com

In what world is the ANC not authoritarian? This chart is a joke, if anyone still had any doubts their actions in the GNU show very clearly that they are authoritarian and far left.

 

[deweyzeph]

The entire thing was flawed from the start. What exactly makes Hitler different than Stalin? Both were autocratic murderous regimes.

Exactly. The irony is that communism turned out to be just an extreme form of hyper-capitalism where all the wealth was stolen from the masses and horded by the elite few at the top.

 

[porchrat]

The entire thing was flawed from the start. What exactly makes Hitler different than Stalin? Both were autocratic murderous regimes.

One's fascism and the other is communism.

They both are authoritarian.

However fascism wants a rigid hierarchical social structure, with private property, but heavy state control.

Communism wants a classless society with no private ownership. State owns everything.

I agree if all you look at is the authoritarian part they're pretty similar, but how they got there, and what their end goal is, are quite different.

 

[Ykv]

One's fascism and the other is communism.

They both are authoritarian.

However fascism wants a rigid hierarchical social structure, with private property, but heavy state control.

Communism wants a classless society with no private ownership. State owns everything.

I agree if all you look at is the authoritarian part they're pretty similar, but how they got there, and what their end goal is, are quite different.

Cant have private property with heavy state control. I don't think it's that different, and the fact that everybody believes it is yet another communist propaganda victory (seriously how is a system that cannot provide toilet paper so great at controlling all narratives)

 

[porchrat]

Cant have private property with heavy state control. I don't think it's that different, and the fact that everybody believes it is yet another communist propaganda victory (seriously how is a system that cannot provide toilet paper so great at controlling all narratives)

Of course you can have private property with state control. You're confusing personal liberty with being able to own things.

Remember it's a tightly hierarchical social structure too.

If you're the wrong ethnic group, or have some of the wrong political views then you don't get the special card that gives you all these rights like property ownership. Even when you own that property, how you use it will be within the narrow dictation of the state. You still however get profits and whatnot for you because you own it.

In communism there are no profits for the owner... because there is no owner.

Remember they're both authoritarian. Government control is a common theme. How that control is exercised is where they differ.

 

[TheMightyQuin]

The entire thing was flawed from the start. What exactly makes Hitler different than Stalin? Both were autocratic murderous regimes.

Stalin murdered his own people.

Hitler murdered everyone BUT his own people.

An incredibly important difference IMHO.

 

[porchrat]

Stalin murdered his own people.

Hitler murdered everyone BUT his own people.

An incredibly important difference IMHO.

He murdered a lot of Jews in Germany.

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

He murdered a lot of Jews in Germany.

I think he would have defined his people as Aryans, not Germans of all nationalities. The aim was to turn Germany into "his people"...

 

[porchrat]

I think he would have defined his people as Aryans, not Germans of all nationalities. The aim was to turn Germany into "his people"...

Indeed. Stalin did the same with Ukrainians, Poles etc. too though. They weren't "his" people.

That's more a commonality, not a difference.

 

[Ykv]

Of course you can have private property with state control. You're confusing personal liberty with being able to own things.

Remember it's a tightly hierarchical social structure too.

If you're the wrong ethnic group, or have some of the wrong political views then you don't get the special card that gives you all these rights like property ownership. Even when you own that property, how you use it will be within the narrow dictation of the state. You still however get profits and whatnot for you because you own it.

In communism there are no profits for the owner... because there is no owner.

Remember they're both authoritarian. Government control is a common theme. How that control is exercised is where they differ.

If I were to start a political party whose core principles are free markets, low taxes and small government. People would call that right wing, of which the extreme version would be Hitler somehow. That is my issue with the whole right vs left, it makes no sense. How is the extreme version of less government more government?

 

[porchrat]

If I were to start a political party whose core principles are free markets, low taxes and small government. People would call that right wing, of which the extreme version would be Hitler somehow. That is my issue with the whole right vs left, it makes no sense. How is the extreme version of less government more government?

I'd call it right politiclaly, not fascist though. That tends to come later.

Things start off as one thing and morph into another.

Communism for example starts off with authoritarian government control with the eventual goal of evolving into an anarchist classless society. Basically no government control.

 

[Ykv]

I'd call it right politiclaly, not fascist though. That tends to come later.

Things start off as one thing and morph into another.

Communism for example starts off with authoritarian government control with the eventual goal of evolving into an anarchist classless society. Basically no government control.

Nazi germany was heavy on state control from the start, not a single communist government has ever evolved to the point of no government control. I have no idea what example you have of a country with a 'small' government morphing into a fascist state. The right vs left scale simply does not make sense.

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

Nazi germany was heavy on state control from the start, not a single communist government has ever evolved to the point of no government control. I have no idea what example you have of a country with a 'small' government morphing into a fascist state. The right vs left scale simply does not make sense.

The west-east axis is simply socialist vs capitalist. Socialism and capitalism are both neutral on state control.

The north-south axis speaks to state control vs liberty.

So communism (north-west) and fascism (north-east) are both heavy on state control (authoritarian). But the one leans more towards socialism and the other towards capitalism...

 

[porchrat]

Nazi germany was heavy on state control from the start, not a single communist government has ever evolved to the point of no government control. I have no idea what example you have of a country with a 'small' government morphing into a fascist state. The right vs left scale simply does not make sense.

He didn't run on that principle though. He bypassed the Reichstag by declaring a state of emergency. That gave him the foot in the door to start his transformation.

It took him something like 2 years to transform Germany into that dictatorship state. Its not like it all happened immediately. It did happen fast, but he cheated.

 

[Zellephant]

If the DA is the extreme left what was Mao? Go on, tell me. Do we need a new category now beyond left?

If the DA is the extreme of the left someone like Charlie Kirk was basically extreme right super-Hitler. I don't even know what Hitler himself was... ultra-turbo-mega right with bells on?. None of it makes any sense.

You strike me as an older fellow. Weren't you alive to experience basically first hand what actual communism (the REAL extreme left) looks like? How can you have lived through something like that, then look at the DA and go "oh yea... extreme left"?

They don't call for seizing the means of production, elimination of classes or any of the usual extreme left stuff.

Left sure, but extreme? Come off it.

The biggest joke of it all is that hitler started out as a socialist (NAZI being National Socialists), which is about as left as you can go. This whole left right thing is a bit of a farce.

I think the DA is in for a big surprise in this years local elections in Cape Town. They've managed to piss off everyone from the very poor to the ultra rich, nobody I've spoken to is happy with how they are running Cape Town. Working traffic lights and pot-hole free roads can only get you so far.

Exactly. It’s as if in the past two years the DA has decided they will govern in perpetuity in the Cape, and can do way they want. They are becoming more and more authoritarian by the minute, and interfering where they really don’t belong. They are heading for a big hiding in the municipal elections.

They have all but lost the centrist vote, be it the wealthy centrists who actually pay the rates and taxes that allow them to provide all these well maintained services, or the poor centrists that rely on the subsidised services. They have lost them all.

It was warped long before Trump. Largely by Americans. It's become so stupidly polarised on individual issues at this point that now people think something as milk-toast as the DA is extreme.

Extreme left is communism. Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot. The DA are weedy squibs compared to those genuine monsters. The DA is busy auctioning off government land in Cape Town to the private sector. OMG THE EXTREME LEFT!!!

Extreme right is fascism. Hitler, Mussolini. Trump is a flabby orange poser compared to those genuine monsters.

Again, left/right is often all silly goblygook when it boils down to brass tacks. nazis started out as socialists. As left as left can be.

That's what they said with the last election, the DA actually increased their position in the WC. Truth is that there is no one even remotely close to delivering the level of quality the DA is delivering.

Nonsense. The DA politics have gone totally pear shaped, and claiming “good service delivery” isn’t going to be enough anymore.

Remember the competent people in the municipal services jobs are not politicians, they are just employees of the municipalities. A new mayor, or a new majority in the council won’t make all those employees disappear overnight. A new, competent municipal council not run by the DA will still have all the competent people in place that are there today after they come into power. What they do after that is anyone’s guess, but if you vote for a more Conservative Party, you can be sure they aren’t going to rock the boat and fire all the competent people overnight. They will however be able to walk back some of the more extreme measures the DA has been taking over time, and be less fascist about how they go about things.

What we should all be looking for is which parties in our municipal areas have:

1. Non Racialism as a core value (ie: no mention of race in thier manifestos)
2. Are run by competent, qualified individuals with solid track records (including meaningful academic qualifications - something the DA severely lacks)
3. Are pro business, and pro smaller government.