They stole my Guns.

[Eugene66]

Hi Guys.

Recently during the day I was out working and on my return I found my house broken into and ransacked.

The thieves helped themselves to all kinds of stuff but my worst pickle is this one.

I had a pistol of my own and a pistol that belongs to my sister who lives somewhere else in a little strongbox in my cuboard. The thieves must have spent lots of time here because they found my only key somewhere in another cuboard where I hide it and opened the box, took the firearms and locked the box again and left it there.They left with the key.

A week before the break in they replaced my Geyser because it popped and flooded my house and my cuboard so I removed the strong box when I cleaned the cuboard out. After that I only put it back but I didnt bolt it down yet.

The inspector told me that it is standard procedure to charge me with negligence and I have to go and be cleared in the court. So far I can still understand this. Is it true?

Well today we did that and on our arrival at the court house in Midrand they paraded me and my Sis into a stinking holding cell here we had to await trial. I was locked up with about 15 other criminals in a 2 by 6 metre room with no window to speak of. I was totally unprepared for this so I sat there with my wallet and latest model cell phone and all and they were surrounding me harassing me for stuff.

There was another white guy there who seems to know the ropes so he told them to buzz off.

Lucky I was only in there for about 30 minutes when the cell guard took us to court. Up to this point there was no statement made as to what happened.

The judge asked me to plead and I pleaded "not guilty" on behalf of me and my Sis. Then the judge postponed the case to next year and asked me to post bail for myself. Then he asked me how much I am willing to pay and I said. "I had no idea this was going to happen."

"Who is the detectve who did this case?" I gave him the name.

It was hard to hear him speaking but I understand he sent us home without bail. On stepping down the cell guard wanted to take us into custody again but the judge told him to let us go.

Now I want to know a few things here. "If they do find me guilty of negligence I would probably pay a fine right?
How much roughly? (Might be easier to just plead guilty and pay them for some peace.)
Since when does the government treat you like a criminal when you are the one that's been broken into?
Do you think my case is clear cut or do you think I was negligent?

I would like to get some guidance here.

Thanks for your attention.

 

[Hosehead]

It looks as if you have already pleaded so the Judge has bound the case over for trial? In retrospect maybe a safer bet than a no contest plea or a guilty plea
I would seek legal representation asap because you don't want to be found guilty of negligence and end up with a record which is worse in many cases than a fine.
The rules governing the safeguard of firearms are pretty strict- it must be your firearm in your safe or on your person. Your sister's firearm doean't belong there in your safe- That may well be a seperate issue.
I don't know whether a strongbox counts as a safe but that could be argued.
In any case a good representation is what you need.

 

[marine1]

Please PM me and I can assist, or put you in touch with the people who can help.

 

[Pitbull]

edit: sorry removed this as I was very furious when I posted it.


Dude, seriously, that was fk'ng reckless of you

 

[Eugene66]

"I would seek legal representation asap because you don't want to be found guilty of negligence and end up with a record which is worse in many cases than a fine."

Is a criminal not somebody who would intentionally do harm? Why would I get a criminal record?

It's not like I sneek into peoples houses to be "negligent" LOL

 

[waynegohl]

Hi Guys.

Recently during the day I was out working and on my return I found my house broken into and ransacked.

The thieves helped themselves to all kinds of stuff but my worst pickle is this one.

I had a pistol of my own and a pistol that belongs to my sister who lives somewhere else in a little strongbox in my cuboard. The thieves must have spent lots of time here because they found my only key somewhere in another cuboard where I hide it and opened the box, took the firearms and locked the box again and left it there.They left with the key.

A week before the break in they replaced my Geyser because it popped and flooded my house and my cuboard so I removed the strong box when I cleaned the cuboard out. After that I only put it back but I didnt bolt it down yet.

The inspector told me that it is standard procedure to charge me with negligence and I have to go and be cleared in the court. So far I can still understand this. Is it true?

Well today we did that and on our arrival at the court house in Midrand they paraded me and my Sis into a stinking holding cell here we had to await trial. I was locked up with about 15 other criminals in a 2 by 6 metre room with no window to speak of. I was totally unprepared for this so I sat there with my wallet and latest model cell phone and all and they were surrounding me harassing me for stuff.

There was another white guy there who seems to know the ropes so he told them to buzz off.

Lucky I was only in there for about 30 minutes when the cell guard took us to court. Up to this point there was no statement made as to what happened.

The judge asked me to plead and I pleaded "not guilty" on behalf of me and my Sis. Then the judge postponed the case to next year and asked me to post bail for myself. Then he asked me how much I am willing to pay and I said. "I had no idea this was going to happen."

"Who is the detectve who did this case?" I gave him the name.

It was hard to hear him speaking but I understand he sent us home without bail. On stepping down the cell guard wanted to take us into custody again but the judge told him to let us go.

Now I want to know a few things here. "If they do find me guilty of negligence I would probably pay a fine right?
How much roughly? (Might be easier to just plead guilty and pay them for some peace.)
Since when does the government treat you like a criminal when you are the one that's been broken into?
Do you think my case is clear cut or do you think I was negligent?

I would like to get some guidance here.

Thanks for your attention.

thats hectic but this line caught my attention.

 

[Eugene66]

Pitbull
Maybe you did not read the whole post? It's not the "norm" for the thing to be loose.

I regret the fact that there are two more guns out there maybe more than you do. But then again I wasn' going to leave the safe underwater for everything to rust and I wasn't going to walk around town like Luky Luke with guns on my person.

But I am sure that even if it was bolted down they would have removed it. Even a crowbar can pull the rawl bolts out of these muddy Chachat Cullumn walls of this house. They damn well had enough time to do that. By the looks of things they were here for over four hours taking their time.

Thank you for your honest opinion.

 

[Hosehead]

"I would seek legal representation asap because you don't want to be found guilty of negligence and end up with a record which is worse in many cases than a fine."

Is a criminal not somebody who would intentionally do harm? Why would I get a criminal record?

It's not like I sneek into peoples houses to be "negligent" LOL

The judge will find you either guilty of negligence or not.

You pleaded not guilty, so if the prosecutor thinks you've been a ignorant little Pric*k who is unfit to own a gun then he will present a case (and quite easily he will) that proves you were negligent under the terms of the Firearms Act and maybe you don't get only a fine and a criminal record, but if the judge wants to make an example of you as to why guns fall into the wrong hands and to point out that people may possibly die because of your actions he could jail your arrse.
As for your sister- her actions are even more serious than yours because her gun wasn't even on or near her property.
She might as well have handed it out like a lollipop at a fairground.
Bottom line. Neither of you were in control of your weapons which you are by law required to be at all times.
Can you prove that either of you were not negligent?

I don't want to come across as harsh, but unfortunately if the gun is not in one of only two legal places, ie. a proper safe, or on your person,. We can't as gun owners think a burglery won't happen to me- because it can and does (and did). However if it's in your safe and that gets broken then you are not negligent according to the law. (They were in your house for hours?? WTF) You took a calculated risk that everything would be ok tucked away in a strong box, and you lost. Now you face the music.

 

[Pitbull]

Pitbull
Maybe you did not read the whole post? It's not the "norm" for the thing to be loose.

I regret the fact that there are two more guns out there maybe more than you do. But then again I wasn' going to leave the safe underwater for everything to rust and I wasn't going to walk around town like Luky Luke with guns on my person.

But I am sure that even if it was bolted down they would have removed it. Even a crowbar can pull the rawl bolts out of these muddy Chachat Cullumn walls of this house. They damn well had enough time to do that. By the looks of things they were here for over four hours taking their time.

Thank you for your honest opinion.

What happened is inexcusable

I have a pistol and a shotgun. I have a huge safe which can not be moved by one person even if it's not bolted down. When I take long road trips or go out of town/overseas I never leave my guns at home. I take them with or have them locked in my fathers safe at his house with the pins removed.

Having a gun is like having a child. Will you leave your child alone and unattended when going out ?

I had to make plans for my Guns as I'll not be home this weekend. My wife is out of town and I'm going to Pretoria on Saturday. I have arranged with my neighbour to lock it in his safe, pins in my bakkie.

There is no excuse for what happened to your guns no matter how you try and justify it

I'm deeply pissed and trying to put this in such a nice manner as I can. You made and honest mistake, but should not have had guns to begin with

 

[Eugene66]

I see you need some background here.

My dad is old and losing his eyesight so he gave one of his pistols to me and one to my Sis. I checked the requirements and bought a box to fit the law requirements. So call it what you Like. I call it a strong box because it opens with a key.

My sister (like me) was not pretty much interested in having a pistol so she asked me to keep it in my safe because the law requires it and she did not want to go and buy a safe like I did.

I woke up one night with burglars in my home and I called the cops and they didnt come at all. So since then it gave me some comfort to know that I can use mine if I need to. But I never really took it out of the safe to use it ever.

I am not even sure if you can get Amunition for my Sisters Luger (It didn't have any) but my .22 had lots of ammo in the safe.

 

[zeb]

You made and honest mistake, but should not have had guns to begin with

Thing is Eugene66 will not have a gun in the foreseeable future, or maybe ever again.
The laws are very strict on negligent gun owners, but I know it will be best to go to the prosecuter and negotiate a fine for pleading guilty. The criminal record is something you'll have to live with.

 

[Hosehead]

I see you need some background here.

My dad is old and losing his eyesight so he gave one of his pistols to me and one to my Sis. I checked the requirements and bought a box to fit the law requirements. So call it what you Like. I call it a strong box because it opens with a key.

My sister (like me) was not pretty much interested in having a pistol so she asked me to keep it in my safe because the law requires it and she did not want to go and buy a safe like I did.

I woke up one night with burglars in my home and I called the cops and they didnt come at all. So since then it gave me some comfort to know that I can use mine if I need to. But I never really took it out of the safe to use it ever.

I am no evn sure i you can get Amunition for my Sisters luger (It didn't have any) but my .22 had lots of ammo in the safe.

Are the firearms registered in your names or still in your fathers name? Do you have a licence for these particular firearms? Your sister?

 

[Pitbull]

I see you need some background here.

My dad is old and losing his eyesight so he gave one of his pistols to me and one to my Sis. I checked the requirements and bought a box to fit the law requirements. So call it what you Like. I call it a strong box because it opens with a key.

My sister (like me) was not pretty much interested in having a pistol so she asked me to keep it in my safe because the law requires it and she did not want to go and buy a safe like I did.

I woke up one night with burglars in my home and I called the cops and they didnt come at all. So since then it gave me some comfort to know that I can use mine if I need to. But I never really took it out of the safe to use it ever.

I am no evn sure i you can get Amunition for my Sisters luger (It didn't have any) but my .22 had lots of ammo in the safe.

In all honesty I don't think I'm really to pissed at you as such, it's mainly not your fault.

1. The police should not have given you a license for the gun
2. They should have come and inspected the "Strong Box"

The system they use is fk'd up and I honestly believe we need alot stricker laws when it comes to owning guns. Sure some people will say but so and so has an illegal firearm and I'm unarmed.

People have been killed for just owning a gun, they feel God like when they have it with them. Robbers in the house with your whole family there and then they try and play heroe which gets innocent people killed and hurt.

Yes, it does provide safety and security but is it really worth the risk and the added burden of owning one ?

I wish people would learn from your mistake rather than judge you like I did (I appologise) But our system is not working. If it did you would not have been in this situation and there would have been 2 guns less in our gun cazy country.

I'm pro gun ownership. But I'm anti gun ownership when the system they have in place fails to protect you in this case and the rest of the people in SA.

I just hope you agree and accept that you should not have owned one to begin with. That is a step in the rigth direction. And no matter how personal I feel about this, I honestly hope they make an example of you. Not jail time as that is to harsh. But maybe some community service in Jo'Burg gen. where you can see what guns do to people

I honestly feel for you and your situation I honestly do. But think about the bigger picture for a minute. The system failed you and you need to pay for it

Good luck with the court case and I hope everything turns out good for you and your sister, I can only imagine what you guys are going through.

I'm sitting here hoping the police have caught the guys already and destroyed the guns

 

[Eugene66]

Are the firearms registered in your names or still in your fathers name? Do you have a licence for these particular firearms? Your sister?

Yes
The first thing I did was to get the liscences for me and my Sister.

I have mine and she has hers.

The .22 is a star. I don't think anyone but a gunsmith can remove that ones firing pin. My sisters is a Luger. Maybe you can remove that one but I never tried. I don't mess with other peoples property.

 

[Hosehead]

Ja it's a sad story and I feel for the guy and his sister as it clearly was an innocent mistake. The Police would normally only check the safe if an application was made and the OP and his sis would have undergone compentecy course where the law would be clearly explained. It looks like the system has failed them if this did not happen.If the guns were not registered to the OP and his sis it's a different story altogether as far as liability goes.

 

[Frankie]

I'm sitting here hoping the police have caught the guys already and destroyed the guns

And that this happened before these guns were used to kill innocent folks.

 

[rwenzori]

Yes, it does provide safety and security but is it really worth the risk and the added burden of owning one ?

I know we have been butting heads, but in spite of my best efforts to think up some way around what you say, I have to admit you are right. It's no longer worth the risk, having seen what is happening to Eugene66. I'm going to hand mine in to the local cop shop. The one problem is that I have one that is not mine and the owner disappeared years ago - how do I hand that one in?

 

[Pitbull]

I know we have been butting heads, but in spite of my best efforts to think up some way around what you say, I have to admit you are right. It's no longer worth the risk, having seen what is happening to Eugene66. I'm going to hand mine in to the local cop shop. The one problem is that I have one that is not mine and the owner disappeared years ago - how do I hand that one in?

Don't they still have the immunity thing in place ?

Go ask at the cop shop first before handing it in. Alternatively, take it to a gun smith to weld it shut and remove the working parts. Then take it to the police and say it was a collectable.

My dad has a certified AK47 that was disabled and welded shut. They give you a certificate rendering it useless. Then you can use it as a door stop if you want

 

[rwenzori]

Don't they still have the immunity thing in place ?

Go ask at the cop shop first before handing it in. Alternatively, take it to a gun smith to weld it shut and remove the working parts. Then take it to the police and say it was a collectable.

My dad has a certified AK47 that was disabled and welded shut. They give you a certificate rendering it useless. Then you can use it as a door stop if you want

Thanks for the advice.

 

[Frankie]

I know we have been butting heads, but in spite of my best efforts to think up some way around what you say, I have to admit you are right. It's no longer worth the risk, having seen what is happening to Eugene66. I'm going to hand mine in to the local cop shop. The one problem is that I have one that is not mine and the owner disappeared years ago - how do I hand that one in?

If you no longer want these firearms, and have no intention of selling them legally, then why not destroy them yourself, and toss the remains into the ocean/dam?
I'm very sceptical about leaving them with the cops.