Traditional laws should be compulsory

[R13...]

A more balanced approach would be the traditional "courts" being in play, but they're a level below Magistrates courts and they are required to implement the law of the country rather than some backward bollocks traditional bullshyte which is not consistent with a modern society.

That would be great but I think people who subject themselves to these kangaroo courts are unlikely to have the knowledge to seek course with higher courts. Plus I think traditional courts used to allow shariah like punishments such as whipping (they have never graduated to lopping off limbs last I knew) - so you could find yourself whipped raw before you are able to appeal to higher courts as sentences tend to be carried out summarily by these courts. The previous government allowed as they themselves used to have whipping as an option if they thought you could be rehabilitated outside of custodial sentencing like being a first offender and the crime not being too serious.

They also kicked people off the land for being a nuisance to the community, so at least you could have time to appeal that. I think these "kings" want to go back to rules where people paid them for living on the land (I think payment is still being enforced though but they can't evict you these days).

 

[Excalibur]

African law has its good side, if they can find a way of integrating this western laws.

 

[ToxicBunny]

That would be great but I think people who subject themselves to these kangaroo courts are unlikely to have the knowledge to seek course with higher courts. Plus I think traditional courts used to allow shariah like punishments such as whipping (they have never graduated to lopping off limbs last I knew) - so you could find yourself whipped raw before you are able to appeal to higher courts as sentences tend to be carried out summarily by these courts. The previous government allowed as they themselves used to have whipping as an option if they thought you could be rehabilitated outside of custodial sentencing like being a first offender and the crime not being too serious.

They also kicked people off the land for being a nuisance to the community, so at least you could have time to appeal that. I think these "kings" want to go back to rules where people paid them for living on the land (I think payment is still being enforced though but they can't evict you these days).

I know there are huge issues that would need to be resolved...

But at least in my opinion, the biggest thing that needs to be resolved is the traditional law crap.. it needs to be brought in line with the current law of the country.

 

[ToxicBunny]

African law has its good side, if they can find a way of integrating this western laws.

What good sides does it have?

 

[grok]

If we are supposed to be equal we should be subject to the same laws, not?

 

[Excalibur]

What good sides does it have?

It focuses more on restorative justice, it brings the accused and the victims together with the aim of making them good neighbors again.

 

[ponder]

It focuses more on restorative justice, it brings the accused and the victims together with the aim of making them good neighbors again.

And the rights of woman and children for example?

 

[daveza]

It focuses more on restorative justice, it brings the accused and the victims together with the aim of making them good neighbors again.

So different rules for them then.

Can you have restorative justice as an option in normal courts ?

 

[konfab]

For a Revolutionary Organisation, the ANC is very backwards...

That is how they keep their ~60% majority. They have an unholy mix of traditional tribalism and communism.

 

[R13...]

It focuses more on restorative justice, it brings the accused and the victims together with the aim of making them good neighbors again.

Maybe but what ends up happening is victims being pressured by families/communities into accepting reparation instead of having the perp punished. It'll just end up benefiting the well off and letting them avoid real punishment. Before someone says that Bees guy paid off that cop's family, true yes but less common than would happen in a traditional court.

 

[HavocXphere]

They really want to play feudalism in the 21st century???

Have fun with that...

African law has its good side, if they can find a way of integrating this western laws.

Bit like saying we're gonna integrate homeopathic medicine into evidence-based medicine.

 

[Ninja'd]

It focuses more on restorative justice, it brings the accused and the victims together with the aim of making them good neighbors again.

So a murder accused gets the death sentence and is buried next to his victim.

 

[Milano]

It focuses more on restorative justice, it brings the accused and the victims together with the aim of making them good neighbors again.

Restorative justice is not justice.

 

[Excalibur]

And the rights of woman and children for example?

Respected.

 

[ToxicBunny]

It focuses more on restorative justice, it brings the accused and the victims together with the aim of making them good neighbors again.

That is not a good side, that is just appeasement and does very little to implement true and consistent justice.

 

[noxibox]

Maybe but what ends up happening is victims being pressured by families/communities into accepting reparation instead of having the perp punished. It'll just end up benefiting the well off and letting them avoid real punishment. Before someone says that Bees guy paid off that cop's family, true yes but less common than would happen in a traditional court.

True, but even in the legal system how much money you have can make a difference to whether you're found guilty and in some cases the punishment you receive if you are found guilty.

Bit like saying we're gonna integrate homeopathic medicine into evidence-based medicine.

More along the lines of integrating one system of quackery with another.

 

[Excalibur]

So different rules for them then.

Can you have restorative justice as an option in normal courts ?

You talk like this is something unheard of, South Africa has been using traditional law for ages.

 

[Excalibur]

Maybe but what ends up happening is victims being pressured by families/communities into accepting reparation instead of having the perp punished. It'll just end up benefiting the well off and letting them avoid real punishment. Before someone says that Bees guy paid off that cop's family, true yes but less common than would happen in a traditional court.

We can reserve it for certain categories of minor crimes and the more serious ones go to the courts. In any case minor offences make up the majority cases so this should relieve the load on the courts and promote a community spirit at the same time.

 

[daveza]

You talk like this is something unheard of, South Africa has been using traditional law for ages.

And it's been wrong for ages.

One law for all regardless of colour, religion, etc etc - archaic bull**** like polygamy is okay for some but not for others must go.

 

[konfab]

We can reserve it for certain categories of minor crimes and the more serious ones go to the courts. In any case minor offences make up the majority cases so this should relieve the load on the courts and promote a community spirit at the same time.

Actually no.
Firstly you would need to have someone who decides on whether a crime is minor or not. Only a judge is qualified to do so in the first place.

Secondly, whenever you talk about punishing people you always go up against their human rights. Our legal system is constructed very carefully such that the action the state takes against people who break the law is balanced with their human rights. Having a tribal leader decide that they can take away someone's land for example would violate that person's right to property.

This is why the bill has to include the provision for people to opt-out for the normal legal system.