Training a web dev

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dakeyras

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Hey there,

My brother in law's kid is looking for a job and I offered her one. Seems she is interested in pursuing a career in web dev. Since I have spent ridiculous amounts of money paying companies I offered to train her and pay her to freelance for me.

What do I let her learn? HTML and CSS of course, but what else?
 
dakeyras said:
Hey there,

My brother in law's kid is looking for a job and I offered her one. Seems she is interested in pursuing a career in web dev. Since I have spent ridiculous amounts of money paying companies I offered to train her and pay her to freelance for me.

What do I let her learn? HTML and CSS of course, but what else?
Click to expand...

"Web dev" is obviously a very broad term. Web development is generally specialised into front-end development (html and css) and backend development (C#, PHP, etc). So the first step is to decide what type of web developer she wants to become. And please don't say both. It is really not possible to be an expert in both, and anyone who claims that they are is lying.
 
I would prefer her going to backend development route since that is the thing that is costing me most money?
 
To be a back-end dev, one first decide if you want to sign your soul to the away(Microsoft - C#) or not(open source software - Python, PHP, etc.).
Less sacastically, choose a back-end programming language to start with. I'd suggest getting her started on Python w/ Django.
The reasoning behind that choice is that Python is a good beginning language that can be applied to back-end systems, and Django is an easy framework to radically build web apps(and keep her interested).

Although, I think most people have a missperception about front-end development: it's not just CSS and HTML. JavaScript is a very serious programming language in that arena, and not as easy to learn as some people might suggest. It might be easy to use, but it's definately not easy to fully grasp.
 
deweyzeph said:
And please don't say both. It is really not possible to be an expert in both, and anyone who claims that they are is lying.
Click to expand...

I hear what you are saying and while it's not for everyone, it is very possible to be a very good front and backend dev.


I'd advise towards Javascript
You learn 1 language that can be used in both the backend (nodejs/express/xxx) and the frontend (angularjs/jquery/xxx).
Above is the basic MEAN stack - Mongodb, Express, Angularjs and Nodejs - javascript all the way through.
It's quite a steep learning curve but if she gets that then she'll be in a very advantageous position in a year.

If you are at all looking at going into the mobile market then you can also use (javascript/html/css based) Phonegap to get a semi decent application out.


If you have enough js developers or skills already and want more traditional backend dev then python or php.
 
rward said:
I hear what you are saying and while it's not for everyone, it is very possible to be a very good front and backend dev.


I'd advise towards Javascript
You learn 1 language that can be used in both the backend (nodejs/express/xxx) and the frontend (angularjs/jquery/xxx).
Above is the basic MEAN stack - Mongodb, Express, Angularjs and Nodejs - javascript all the way through.
It's quite a steep learning curve but if she gets that then she'll be in a very advantageous position in a year.

If you are at all looking at going into the mobile market then you can also use (javascript/html/css based) Phonegap to get a semi decent application out.


If you have enough js developers or skills already and want more traditional backend dev then python or php.
Click to expand...


Someone not having any background in dev should not immediatly jump into NodeJS or AngularJS. NodeJs follows a different programming model to conventional ones people use on a daily basis, so it is by no means for beginners neither is AngularJs. You need to have a decent grasp on javascript before even thinking about going that route.
 
deweyzeph said:
It is really not possible to be an expert in both, and anyone who claims that they are is lying.
Click to expand...

Okay so let me get this straight you're telling me that i cant be well versed in creative layout, semantically correct html markup, javascript as well as being proficient in writing the engines that power said UI's?. You clearly lack these abilities but don't attempt to compartmentalize everyone else just because you lack the ability.
 
nand said:
To be a back-end dev, one first decide if you want to sign your soul to the away(Microsoft - C#) or not(open source software - Python, PHP, etc.).
Less sacastically, choose a back-end programming language to start with. I'd suggest getting her started on Python w/ Django.
The reasoning behind that choice is that Python is a good beginning language that can be applied to back-end systems, and Django is an easy framework to radically build web apps(and keep her interested).

Although, I think most people have a missperception about front-end development: it's not just CSS and HTML. JavaScript is a very serious programming language in that arena, and not as easy to learn as some people might suggest. It might be easy to use, but it's definately not easy to fully grasp.
Click to expand...

You are an idiot if you think doing MS stack is signing away your soul. The whole im so awesome because i do open source is so 1990. Microsoft have contributed towards many open source projects and even opened their entire web stack to the public. So perhaps get a bit of an education in that department.

And django is a piece of ****. If you want to use a better python framework use web2py.
 
semaphore said:
You are an idiot if you think doing MS stack is signing away your soul. The whole im so awesome because i do open source is so 1990. Microsoft have contributed towards many open source projects and even opened their entire web stack to the public. So perhaps get a bit of an education in that department.

And django is a piece of ****. If you want to use a better python framework use web2py.
Click to expand...
I wanted to post the definition of sarcasm, but I refrained from doing so, since I think we both know what it means.

With "signing your soul away", I meant the following: Microsoft isn't portable, if you've learned it, you are limited to that domain of software development - much like signing your soul away, where's there's only one inevitable pathway.
 
nand said:
With "signing your soul away", I meant the following: Microsoft isn't portable, if you've learned it, you are limited to that domain of software development - much like signing your soul away, where's there's only one inevitable pathway.
Click to expand...

Your logic makes no sense here. What do you mean if you've learned it? How are you limited? C# syntax is near identical to java. Java is close to android version of java. etc. To be a developer you need to be agnostic with your tools to be slummed into a single stream and then scream oh i cant do it , is just the sign of a lazy person. You do know that C# is portable to linux right?
 
semaphore said:
You are an idiot if you think doing MS stack is signing away your soul. The whole im so awesome because i do open source is so 1990. Microsoft have contributed towards many open source projects and even opened their entire web stack to the public. So perhaps get a bit of an education in that department.

And django is a piece of ****. If you want to use a better python framework use web2py.
Click to expand...

Did you miss the "Less Sarcastically" piece?


As you did say, whatever you learn will help with learning new languages and bridging between them.

django, web2py, whichever, each person has their own preference and after a bit the brother in laws kid will find theirs and disregard our opinion. Some people love cakePhp, I think it's ****, I like Yii, others think it's ****, some like C, others like Java.. each to their own and trying to argue one against the other is a little futile (unless there are glaring differences).
 
dakeyras said:
Hey there,

My brother in law's kid is looking for a job and I offered her one. Seems she is interested in pursuing a career in web dev. Since I have spent ridiculous amounts of money paying companies I offered to train her and pay her to freelance for me.

What do I let her learn? HTML and CSS of course, but what else?
Click to expand...

Yes, ensure she learns how to use these properly. Ensure she also learns HTML 5 and CSS 3. Then, get her started in some Javascript. Teach her to write re-usable js code using design patterns like the revealing module pattern and the prototype pattern.
Allow her to learn how to use Jquery for some animation effects and ajax calls.

That will allow her to have a good grasp of what is needed for development. Also, while she is learning these, show her how to use a version control system (git, svn, mercurial) -whatever it is that you use.

That should take her about 6 months to be comfortable enough to jump into backend development. Again, start with whatever it is that you code in for your backend. Whichever language you choose, make sure she learns how to write re-usable code and what design patterns are and how to implement them.
 
Thanks for all the advice! I should mention that I don't know squat about web development; I outsource to a company. I can employ one, probably two people for the same expense and have more control over the process. I like being involved with the design and have contact with the actual people doing the work. If I employ them myself I can have much more control.

Basically I dont currently employ anyone that can tell me what she needs to do, which is why I came here to ask, so thanks!

I am a serial entrepreneur. I start a business, automate it/sell it and then do something else. Therefore I often need a website done.
 
semaphore said:
Okay so let me get this straight you're telling me that i cant be well versed in creative layout, semantically correct html markup, javascript as well as being proficient in writing the engines that power said UI's?. You clearly lack these abilities but don't attempt to compartmentalize everyone else just because you lack the ability.
Click to expand...

Actually I've worked in web development as a senior ASP.NET developer for many years. Front-end and back-end development have diverged into 2 very distinct disciplines. Only cowboys and pretenders claim they are experts in both. I have yet to come across anyone who is genuinely an expert in both.
 
i have five years asp.net experience and have used MVC since beta.

if it wasn't for bootstrap my frontend would look ***. i dont know what I'm doing.

i can use knockout, jquery, coffeescript and nodejs but i can't make things not look ****

CSS = tables in my head
 
I have a similar issue, can do backends and frontends but can't design for ****.. (it's getting better though).

But I don't see design as a frontend development, I see design is the job of the designer and I give input on that as to what can happen programatically (we can make that card flip and have info xyz on the back or have a transition effect between this and that , etc).
 
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