Truth About Switching Geysers Off?

It seems to help me. If I leave it on it uses 20 watts a day during the winter. We turn it off in the mornings and turn it back on about 4 pm. Use just over 10 watts a day. That's total household consumption.

Could be I haven't figure out the timer thing. And max setting is only 45 degrees
You must mean kWh not watts?

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You will see it's better to leave the geyser on @ it's max temp (70°) setting.
You have no idea what you are speaking about.

Put the geyser to about 55 degrees, this way it will use less power as it will heat the water less. However you might end up using more hot water, so you will need to measure the savings but there should be a savings. The reason to keep it above 55 degrees, is that the rare Legionnaires' disease cannot live above 55 degrees.
 
Why?

You telling me that you can't see me saving money by having my geyser on only 4 hours of the day (off 20 hours). I save 20 hours of the geyser going on and off every few minutes.
Also, why would a strange man on a forum lie to you.....:erm:
Hehe.

What is staggering is that people who can vote to elect a government can't get their head around the basic junior high school science. This is such basic stuff. You use the same energy whether you heat it in one go or whether you heat it in a thousand little spurts over ten hours. The dissipation loss happens when the water temp is above ambient atmosphere temp, irrespective of whether you heat in one go in 10 minutes or a thousand little ones over 10 hours.

The only possible saving is when your geyser water temp is in equilibrium with ambient, ie there is no energy loss through dissipation. So, you can save a very little bit if you leave the geyser power off for more than 24-36 hours, say. And then only after the water temp is same as air temp.
 
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Hehe.

What is staggering is that people who can vote to elect a government can't get their head around the basic junior high school science. This is such basic stuff. You use the same energy whether you heat it in one go or whether you heat it in a thousand little spurts over ten hours. The dissipation loss happens when the water temp is above ambient atmosphere temp, irrespective of whether you heat in one go or a thousand little ones.

Yes, but remember if your insulation is bad enough, it will cool down quicker. The cooler it is the less heat will be lost through dissipation.

Every one is not arguing from the same departure point.

I would have thought though that all geysers these days are insulated sufficiently, but if someones water can go from warm to "luke warm" (also a relative term), then clearly the geysers aren't insulated properly.
 
Yes, but remember if your insulation is bad enough, it will cool down quicker. The cooler it is the less heat will be lost through dissipation.

Every one is not arguing from the same departure point.

I would have thought though that all geysers these days are insulated sufficiently, but if someones water can go from warm to "luke warm" (also a relative term), then clearly the geysers aren't insulated properly.
Indeed, the rate of loss generally decreases the closer you get to ambient. But in everyday household situations the diffs is insignificant, amounting to cents not Rands.
 
Indeed, the rate of loss generally decreases the closer you get to ambient. But in everyday household situations the diffs is insignificant, amounting to cents not Rands.

In my previous post I showed that I would have saved R9 a month on my old geyser for maintenance. But that is also only that much, if I switch off your geyser after I draw the water and only draw water once. And the water drawn is enough to leave it close to ambient.
 
... and we're not even getting into Power Factor. :p

To sum up: Most people forget that for ordinary household billing purposes it doesn't matter (under the current billing regime) whether you use the energy in dozens of little spurts during the day, or in one big spurt at night. Either way, it takes the same energy to heat the cold water you put in, and replace that lost through dissipation. By switching off during the day, you simply change that same energy from moving into the water in twenty little dribbles and make it happen in one big spurt. The amount of energy used is unchanged. All you really do is wear out your geyser CB, and up the chances of being irritated by lack of hot water when you want it. The dissipation loss is for practical purposes pretty much the same whichever way you go, so it makes no material diffs.
 
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Think about it for four femtoseconds:

Energy goes into your geyser via the heating element. You can safely ignore other ways energy gets into the water in you geyser, such from the atmosphere (via the geyser housing), various extraterrestrial radiations (eg sunlight or beta/gamma radiation from space) - none of these are significant for our purposes.

Energy leaves your geyser in one of two ways: 1. with the hot water you use, and 2. heat-loss through dissipation, which is a consequence of less-than-perfect geyser insulation.

Let's assume your household uses 3000 litres of hot water per month, at 60 degrees C. Let's further assume that the incoming cold water has an average temperature of 20 degrees C. That means your household needs to raise 3000 litres of water by 40 degrees Celsius in the month.

Now, it takes 4.187 Joules to raise one millilitre of water by one degree Celsius. So 1000 ml takes 4.187 J x 1000 = 4.187 kJ. So, to raise 3000 litres of water by 40 degrees C takes 3000 x 4.187 kJ x 40 = 502 440 kJ. That's it.

Here's the thing: It doesn't matter whether you do that temperature raising over an entire month or over an hour, it takes exactly the same amount of energy.

Since the only possible ways energy leaves your geyser is 1. with the hot water flowing out through the pipe and to your taps, or 2. via dissipation/heat-loss to the atmosphere through the geyser housing (affected by geyser insulation), the only possible way you can make a saving in your hotwater heating bill is by: 1. using less hot water, or 2. heating it less, ie to a lower temperature (turn down the geyser thermostat, but dangerous as mentioned), and 3. insulating the geyser against losses through dissipation.

Those claiming savings by fitting a timer or switching off are in reality using the timer as a psychological aid to reducing their nett monthly consumption of hot water. There is no other possible way in the known universe that your bill can be reduced.

Well that is right, but only if there is no time based variance in the billing of the electricity. If there was time based billing of electricity, then one could save by having the geyser run only in off peak times.
 
Well that is right, but only if there is no time based variance in the billing of the electricity. If there was time based billing of electricity, then one could save by having the geyser run only in off peak times.
Yup. Said that a few posts higher up.
Oh, I must add that that the nett monthly costs can change in the foreseeable future - when electricity resellers (such as your municipality) introduce time-of-use tariffs. Currently, no SA municipality has TOU tariffs for domestic users. But it is national policy to abolish the current Inclined Block Tariffs (IBT) and introduce TOUT (Time Of Use Tariffs).

Once TOUTs are introduced, it can make a lot of sense to shift your energy consumption to lower-tariff times. That's where timers can help.
 
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How can I tell if my solar panels for my geyser is working or not (without calling a tech in)? Currently on prepaid with one of the timer thing. When the element kicks on, the little red light flashes (on the prepaid meter) every second, when it's off it flashes ever four seconds or so.

Also, if we need hot hot water for morning ((between 4:30 and 5am) and in the evenings between 6pm and 9pm, how should my timers be set up. Says there's four blocks I can use, but technically only need it for 2 of the blocks.
 
You must mean kWh not watts?


You have no idea what you are speaking about.

Put the geyser to about 55 degrees, this way it will use less power as it will heat the water less. However you might end up using more hot water, so you will need to measure the savings but there should be a savings. The reason to keep it above 55 degrees, is that the rare Legionnaires' disease cannot live above 55 degrees.
It appears you don't either, with the lower geyser temp you end up drawing more hot water and thus it cools down more and you use more energy to heat it up. Geysers are designed to maintain that constant high temperature.
 
The first trick is setting the geyser down to 55 degrees. (50 if you want, lower is risky)

Secondly get an intelligent timer with a thermal probe like Geyserwise, which makes a difference by allowing the temperature to fluctuate and only told it up as required while it's ON.

It also errors out when it doesn't heat fast enough, which will save you money too because if you are sitting with a dud geyser and don't know about it you are already burning money on nothing.

Also Geyserwise in place makes solar expansion cheaper down the line.
 
How can I tell if my solar panels for my geyser is working or not (without calling a tech in)? Currently on prepaid with one of the timer thing. When the element kicks on, the little red light flashes (on the prepaid meter) every second, when it's off it flashes ever four seconds or so.

Also, if we need hot hot water for morning ((between 4:30 and 5am) and in the evenings between 6pm and 9pm, how should my timers be set up. Says there's four blocks I can use, but technically only need it for 2 of the blocks.

It should take about 30 minutes to heat from completely cold to 55.

If it takes longer, something isn't right.

So on at 04:00 and off immediately after the latest shower.

If you have an actual temperature reader on the thing it helps a great deal.

In summer mine doesn't go on in the morning at all. So from off at 23:00 the night before I can shower happily the next morning and when walking out after a it's refilled with cold water it's about 35-39 degrees.
 
It should take about 30 minutes to heat from completely cold to 55.

If it takes longer, something isn't right.

So on at 04:00 and off immediately after the latest shower.

If you have an actual temperature reader on the thing it helps a great deal.

In summer mine doesn't go on in the morning at all. So from off at 23:00 the night before I can shower happily the next morning and when walking out after a it's refilled with cold water it's about 35-39 degrees.

Ok, something is wrong then. It's a geyser wise with the temp display. I bumped it up to a max of 55 with a low of 45. After 90 minutes it didn't get above 50 and wouldn't seem that it didn't want to go above 50 cause it sat there for a long time. During that 90 minutes I chowed roughly 10kw of electricity.
What's interesting with my normal household and the geyser not heating, I was going through a tenth of a kilowatt every 30 seconds. Now as we get ready for bed and everything is off, going through the same amount every 95 seconds.

Think I will get an electrician out.
 
Ok, something is wrong then. It's a geyser wise with the temp display. I bumped it up to a max of 55 with a low of 45. After 90 minutes it didn't get above 50 and wouldn't seem that it didn't want to go above 50 cause it sat there for a long time. During that 90 minutes I chowed roughly 10kw of electricity.
What's interesting with my normal household and the geyser not heating, I was going through a tenth of a kilowatt every 30 seconds. Now as we get ready for bed and everything is off, going through the same amount every 95 seconds.

Think I will get an electrician out.

Weird the Geyserwise should throw an error if there is a problem.

Mine doesn't have a configurable lower threshold that I'm aware of by I think 10 degrees variance is default.

What temp does it start at before the 90 minutes?
 
My scenario is like this. Two people in a flat, showering directly after one another in the evenings. Our current approach is to turn it on by 16:30 to allow it to get to full temperature by 18:00 when the municipality device switches it off, then leave it off until the next day. The geyser is located inside a cupboard. We usually shower shortly after 18:00. The other night i did the usual 1.5hr on time, then made food etc until 19:30 and decided to shower. Somehow the geyser had lost enough heat to be lukewarm in 1.5hrs after 1.5hrs of heating, and i just barely managed a k*k shower. It's hard to believe that it can be this badly insulated, it isn't warm to the touch when the water is hot. I've tried leaving it on all day before and saw we'd lost about 15kWh, as opposed to about 5 if we do the 1.5hr thing. So not an option.
So it seems it needs more insulation, but I've mostly been told geyser blankets are largely ineffective. So I dunno...

Oh and we strictly only use hot water for the shower. We boil water for the dishes too. So there's nothing else using the water.

I would have read your post if you used punctuation.
 
Here's the thing: It doesn't matter whether you do that temperature raising over an entire month or over an hour, it takes exactly the same amount of energy.

Umm - that would assume there is no thermal leakage over a month - which would be ludicrous.
 
I would have read your post if you used punctuation.
14 full stops, 6 commas, 2 paragraphs and an ellipsis.
Are you quoting the right post?
Can you read?

Or maybe you should start over again with simpler material - perhaps one sentence per page? My recommendation is A Very Hungry Caterpillar.

Just pulling your leg, but slowing down and taking a little effort to read before posting a useless response would be appreciated.
 
whats is a standard 150l geyser standing loss ? about 2kwh i think. Switch geyser of for 12 hours a day max saving is 1/2 of standing loss
 
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