UCT scraps AI cheating detection

[Mirai]

Given that this was my experience, there is no maybe. This is hardly a stretch.

You can't generalise based on that.

Yes, it's incorrect usage - that's entirely the point.

I didn't "mishear" - perhaps drop the gaslighting?

No attempts at gaslighting. I struggle to imagine anyone saying 'neurological'. Maybe a non native speaker.

That's why I mentioned other corroboration.

It's mostly a clinical diagnosis.

Lucky you.

You have limited experience to make such claims.

The causality would have to be pretty weak for it to be omitted as a symptom on major medical sites (Mayo, Cleveland).

It is possible. Mayo and Cleveland are sites for lay people and also have to cover their butts.

Irritation of the diaphragm can cause coughing and that can be caused by peritoneal inflammation. Also an atypically located appendix could be closer to the diaphragm.

It's not common though but it is possible.

What's more lung infections can also sometimes cause irritation of the lining of the inside of the abdomen.

Sometimes there is also a type of allergic reaction to the organism causing the primary problem and that can irritate eg the abdomen. Weird things can happen. But rare, super rare.

They absolutely do not have time for complexity. Not sure what you're trying to achieve with the non-sequitur.

Most of the time, they have enough time for the complexity, if not in one visit, then in multiple visits. To say absolutely no time is just silly.

As opposed to someone who has researched the specific symptom combination or condition extensively.

Er no. Without understanding of the pathophysiology, presentation and insight, no. You haven't researched anything. You've googled lists of symptoms. It's like a weeb learning about Japan from anime. Look it's good to do research but to think you know better than the professionals (as a rule), is not going to benefit you in the long term.

Indeed, but it's not me. You are being extremely defensive and are denying the reality so many people face with medical care when things get complicated. As for the intelligence of doctors - their mean intelligence is higher than most, so it's just slightly right shifted versus the general distribution of intellect. There are plenty of non-doctors who lie on the far right of that distribution, who are far more capable of diving into a specific issue than a majority of doctors.

This is your personal opinion. Look people can have problems with ALL professions. That doesn't mean one can generalise. I mean you can generalise but it's not rational to do so. Most people realise this. The amount of trouble I've had with software, should make me think that all developers are hacks. I don't.

I have solved several.

I doubt it.

And if a given doctor has an atypical distribution of flowchart decisions they get pressured to course correct. This also means that they are less likely to treat exceptional cases as exceptional cases.

Exceptional cases are very rare. You're looking at anecdotes. For the majority of cases patients get sorted out. The horror stories stand out and lead to a biased perception of affairs.

But at the end of the day the patient seeks medical attention for one or other reason. Sometimes many reasons. Often they don't come with the problems they think they present with. For example people with multiple symptoms often have underlying personality, mood or anxiety disorders. Sometimes they have substance abuse. Sometimes they have social issues. Sometimes a combination. Sometimes they have physical ailments but their mental state exacerbates the perception of pain or makes innocent and common symptoms present as something significant to the patient. Now imagine being that guy who CT scans every patient with abdominal symptoms or headache and exposing them to unnecessary radiation or spending hours on each patient because maybe there is a rare chance they will miss something. Imagine how many patients would then not get seen. Imagine the waiting time complaints and imagine the costs if your GP or specialist has to spend 2-3 hours with you. So in general that doesn't happen.

The patient may also seek care to find the cause or manage their ailment. The practitioner has to then figure out what's wrong and that may require multiple visits. Some problems require urgent work up or even emergent intervention, others can be sorted out over weeks or months, through a process of elimination. Often one focuses on eliminating life threatening and then serious causes before one is left over with more rare and a group of less serious or rather more protracted problems. Often problems go away on their own. It's always wise however to return if the problem persists or worsens.

The thing is that people seek medical attention for a reason and if you compare medical science a 100 years ago to now, you'd see that the medical people patients are consulting are not nearly as incompetent as you make out here. If they were, there would be no difference between seeking care and not seeking it, and there is a difference.

Of course lazy, incompetent, sick (docs are human after all and suffer the same problems their patients suffer from) or burnt out doctors can also be found. But you shouldn't just generalise based on a few interactions, not about medicine, nor any other profession or activity. And of course if the doctor you're seeing is not helpful, see someone else.

 

[cguy]

You can't generalise based on that.

I’ve seen it enough times, that the people I know would have to be an extremely unlucky bunch for it to not be statistically significant.

No attempts at gaslighting. I struggle to imagine anyone saying 'neurological'. Maybe a non native speaker.

This is USA based, so perhaps the nomenclature is different.

You have limited experience to make such claims.

Not limited enough, unfortunately.

It is possible. Mayo and Cleveland are sites for lay people and also have to cover their butts.

Covering their butts would lead to more associations, not less I would think.

Irritation of the diaphragm can cause coughing and that can be caused by peritoneal inflammation. Also an atypically located appendix could be closer to the diaphragm.

It's not common though but it is possible.

Being possible was never in question.

Most of the time, they have enough time for the complexity, if not in one visit, then in multiple visits. To say absolutely no time is just silly.

Ok, some doctors will give it the requisite time.

Er no. Without understanding of the pathophysiology, presentation and insight, no. You haven't researched anything. You've googled lists of symptoms. It's like a weeb learning about Japan from anime. Look it's good to do research but to think you know better than the professionals (as a rule), is not going to benefit you in the long term.

I’m a STEM PhD, with a slew of published papers and a 30 year career in R&D. Trust me, I strongly expect that I have a better idea of what research involves than the vast majority of doctors. When trying to figure something tricky out medically, I read papers on the topic.

This is your personal opinion. Look people can have problems with ALL professions. That doesn't mean one can generalise. I mean you can generalise but it's not rational to do so. Most people realise this. The amount of trouble I've had with software, should make me think that all developers are hacks. I don't.

I don’t think that all Doctors are hacks, but I haven’t yet met a doctor who didn’t back off or use delay/attrition tactics when things got to involved.

I doubt it.

One diagnosis required me to force a test to be run, which subsequently resulted in an urgent surgery.

Exceptional cases are very rare. You're looking at anecdotes. For the majority of cases patients get sorted out.

I am literally discussing exceptional cases.

The horror stories stand out and lead to a biased perception of affairs.

But at the end of the day the patient seeks medical attention for one or other reason. Sometimes many reasons. Often they don't come with the problems they think they present with. For example people with multiple symptoms often have underlying personality, mood or anxiety disorders. Sometimes they have substance abuse. Sometimes they have social issues. Sometimes a combination. Sometimes they have physical ailments but their mental state exacerbates the perception of pain or makes innocent and common symptoms present as something significant to the patient.

And sometimes they miss real medical issues, because they write it off as a mental state issue.

Now imagine being that guy who CT scans every patient with abdominal symptoms or headache and exposing them to unnecessary radiation or spending hours on each patient because maybe there is a rare chance they will miss something. Imagine how many patients would then not get seen. Imagine the waiting time complaints and imagine the costs if your GP or specialist has to spend 2-3 hours with you. So in general that doesn't happen.

What I will say is that I have turned very many CT orders into MRI orders. Most doctors seem oblivious to radiation risk.

The patient may also seek care to find the cause or manage their ailment. The practitioner has to then figure out what's wrong and that may require multiple visits. Some problems require urgent work up or even emergent intervention, others can be sorted out over weeks or months, through a process of elimination. Often one focuses on eliminating life threatening and then serious causes before one is left over with more rare and a group of less serious or rather more protracted problems. Often problems go away on their own.

Death tends to do that. Empirically, the number of doctors that rely on this as a solution is scary. Often the problem doesn’t go away, the patient just lives (or dies) with the issue.

It's always wise however to return if the problem persists or worsens.

The thing is that people seek medical attention for a reason and if you compare medical science a 100 years ago to now, you'd see that the medical people patients are consulting are not nearly as incompetent as you make out here. If they were, there would be no difference between seeking care and not seeking it, and there is a difference.

That doesn’t follow from my comments at all. Doctors deal with straightforward issues (which are the majority) very well.

Of course lazy, incompetent, sick (docs are human after all and suffer the same problems their patients suffer from) or burnt out doctors can also be found. But you shouldn't just generalise based on a few interactions, not about medicine, nor any other profession or activity. And of course if the doctor you're seeing is not helpful, see someone else.

With the shared system we have here in the US, the doctors just pull your records and bias themselves to give the same diagnosis. Not always of course, but it has a huge effect here.

 

[Mirai]

I’ve seen it enough times, that the people I know would have to be an extremely unlucky bunch for it to not be statistically significant.

That's a subjective perception.

This is USA based, so perhaps the nomenclature is different.

Are you in the US?

Not limited enough, unfortunately.

Covering their butts would lead to more associations, not less I would think.

No. The information has to be clear and readable. But the way these sites present info is that almost everyone who reads them will think they have the illness.

Cough once or twice, yes it could possibly be pneumonia.

Being possible was never in question.

That's what I said initially.

Ok, some doctors will give it the requisite time.


I’m a STEM PhD, with a slew of published papers and a 30 year career in R&D. Trust me, I strongly expect that I have a better idea of what research involves than the vast majority of doctors. When trying to figure something tricky out medically, I read papers on the topic.

That's not your field though. You're picking personal experiences and that's precisely not how drawing out generalised conclusions works. For the vast majority of patients doctors have enough time for their ailment. It's shown in the improvements in health and longetivity. Not everything is perfect though and you with your appeal to irrelevant credentials is putting South Africans off going to doctors because they can self diagnose. You're claiming dangerous things here.

I don’t think that all Doctors are hacks, but I haven’t yet met a doctor who didn’t back off or use delay/attrition tactics when things got to involved.

For a PhD you sure like to draw out conclusions from personal experiences.

One diagnosis required me to force a test to be run, which subsequently resulted in an urgent surgery.

Sometimes the urgent surgery isn't even urgent.

I am literally discussing exceptional cases.

Rare cases occur rarely. That's the point. And you telling lay people here that if they have a rare case, then... is not logical.

How would they know they have a rare case?

You're generalising based on a few anecdotes which are already clouded by your own view. There's nothing wrong with a second or even a third opinion, but not as a default position.

And sometimes they miss real medical issues, because they write it off as a mental state issue.

Most of the time, they don't. Sometimes they do. Doctors are human. Patients also don't often tell all their symptoms. One can ask specific questions and they don't know or can't remember. Remember the patient is also flawed.

What I will say is that I have turned very many CT orders into MRI orders. Most doctors seem oblivious to radiation risk.

You missed the point. Are you in the States?

Death tends to do that. Empirically, the number of doctors that rely on this as a solution is scary. Often the problem doesn’t go away, the patient just lives (or dies) with the issue.

Often people have symptoms and those symptoms will not kill them. Having symptoms is part of life. Not every symptom is cancer or multiple sclerosis or Brugada Syndrome.

Common things are more likely to harm you than rare things. They're called rare for a reason.

That doesn’t follow from my comments at all. Doctors deal with straightforward issues (which are the majority) very well.

Doctors are not there just for the rare patient with rare issues. They're there for everyone. Often the straightforward issues are the serious issues. Rare things are rare.

With the shared system we have here in the US, the doctors just pull your records and bias themselves to give the same diagnosis. Not always of course, but it has a huge effect here.

OK, you're in the US. Why do you comment on a South African forum and make conclusions about our healthcare here? Maybe find the US Medical reddit and unload there?

Americans often practice defensive medicine.

 

[cguy]

You're out in the weeds now, whacking about with the wrong end of the stick. You responded to a later response of mine to a back and forth with others, and seem to have taken it out of context. I only commented on the rare/exceptional cases - effectively defined as those cases where you are no longer getting useful feedback from doctors.

This happens a lot more frequently than you seem to think. Yes, this is based on my experience, but it is also based on the experience of family, friends and quite frankly, I would expect anyone over the age of 45 to know of similar situations. The idea that I need a study to show that this happens a fair amount is just an appeal to ignorance. My point is that when you reach that stage (at whatever frequency it may occur), there is still a lot more that can be done by caring parties, given that one can spend far more time on the problem than a doctor, especially given the resources one has available today.

That's a subjective perception.

Are you in the US?

No. The information has to be clear and readable. But the way these sites present info is that almost everyone who reads them will think they have the illness.

Cough once or twice, yes it could possibly be pneumonia.

That's what I said initially.

That's not your field though. You're picking personal experiences and that's precisely not how drawing out generalised conclusions works. For the vast majority of patients doctors have enough time for their ailment. It's shown in the improvements in health and longetivity. Not everything is perfect though and you with your appeal to irrelevant credentials is putting South Africans off going to doctors because they can self diagnose. You're claiming dangerous things here.

For a PhD you sure like to draw out conclusions from personal experiences.

Sometimes the urgent surgery isn't even urgent.

Rare cases occur rarely. That's the point. And you telling lay people here that if they have a rare case, then... is not logical.

How would they know they have a rare case?

You're generalising based on a few anecdotes which are already clouded by your own view. There's nothing wrong with a second or even a third opinion, but not as a default position.

Most of the time, they don't. Sometimes they do. Doctors are human. Patients also don't often tell all their symptoms. One can ask specific questions and they don't know or can't remember. Remember the patient is also flawed.

You missed the point. Are you in the States?

Often people have symptoms and those symptoms will not kill them. Having symptoms is part of life. Not every symptom is cancer or multiple sclerosis or Brugada Syndrome.

Common things are more likely to harm you than rare things. They're called rare for a reason.

Doctors are not there just for the rare patient with rare issues. They're there for everyone. Often the straightforward issues are the serious issues. Rare things are rare.

OK, you're in the US. Why do you comment on a South African forum and make conclusions about our healthcare here? Maybe find the US Medical reddit and unload there?

Americans often practice defensive medicine.

 

[Mariner]

I only commented on the rare/exceptional cases - effectively defined as those cases where you are no longer getting useful feedback from doctors.

Despite strict annual medicals required for my work, which included a stress ECG and lung function, I would, in what appeared to be random periods, experience the symptoms of a heart attack, starting in my mid 20's. I was hospitalised several times and recovered within hours with no more symptoms. This continued until I consulted a cardiologist in my early 50's. He found nothing wrong with the heart or arteries, top to toe, and there was no arterial buildup either.

Then it happened while I was at work in another location. I was seen by a visiting foreign doctor. He checked the vital signs and made me stand and bend over as far as I could, hold the position and then return to standing. The relief was instant and I let out a huge burp.

It turns out I had an undiagnosed hiatus hernia, probably sustained in a motorcycle accident in my early 20's. The hernia allowed gas to expand my stomach through the hernia in the diaphragm into the heart and lung cavity, compressing the heart and lungs, giving symptoms of a heart attack.

Management is now easy with food choices or medication, plus knowing how to get relief using the physics of the anatomy. No other doctor had ever thought of this possibility. I was just lucky to have a chance encounter with the right doctor.

given that one can spend far more time on the problem than a doctor, especially given the resources one has available today.

Yes, I prolapsed a spinal disc at age 30. An operation left the disc and removed only the prolapsed fluid. At age 50, I started getting cramps in my lower back with sciatica symptoms. Doctors treated me with Voltaren injections to relieve the cramps. The relief was only temporary. I asked what muscle was involved and was told it was the Glutes and the cause was my previous surgery and disc degradation.

I read extensively and came across the little diagnosed Piriformis Syndrome on YouTube, where the tiny Piriformis muscle goes into spasm and squeezes the sciatic nerves. When I mentioned it to a doctor, the penny dropped and he prescribed pain medication and exercises to relieve the spasm. No more injections are required.

No doctor had ever thought of the Piriformis muscle being the cause. They don't have the time for rare causes to be diagnosed. It took months of searching for information for me to determine the cause.

 

[Swa]

Another one is MS. 20 patients will each have different symptoms and disease progression. That leads me to believe there's no such thing as MS and it's really just a bunch of related or unrelated diseases for which doctors can't figure out the cause. In a lot of cases once a patient has been diagnosed with MS no other doctor would touch them and simply make it off as their MS but eventually after doing research they or a good doctor would find the cause and say they don't have MS.

I have done my own research to know my condition. Enough so that if I have to google now it isn't just googling but I can put the results in perspective.

Look, most people present with typical diseases that are easily treated because doctors have been trained to treat them almost like parrots. That doesn't make these doctors good at what they do. It's when the rarer conditions arise that you see the good doctors vs the bad ones. People seem to think that because these conditions are rare they aren't common. In reality there are so many rare conditions that they are more common than cancer. I have two people in my family including myself with rare conditions though mine isn't rare but just not easily diagnosed. On the other hand conditions such as cerebral palsy are rarer but because the symptoms are typical it's easily diagnosed.

The reality is that most people go to the doctor with common ailments and in a lot of cases doctors just prescribe antibiotics for things such as cold and flu that go away on their own and this is seen as success. When the rarer conditions present people can't pay for 10 doctors visits without any result so most either diagnose themselves or just learn to live with their conditions. In a few cases their doctor would do the investigation or they end up at a doctor that knows their symptoms. I wouldn't call this success.

I don't doubt we will progress to where it becomes easier to diagnose these conditions as more gets known but it won't be doctors making the diagnoses.

 

[Bad Ballie]

Fairly much the standard now at a lot of these medical centers, have a good look at the computer they use during consultation, its all multiple choice diagnoses.

 

[Mirai]

You're out in the weeds now, whacking about with the wrong end of the stick.

Dude, the penny still hasn't dropped for you.

You responded to a later response of mine to a back and forth with others, and seem to have taken it out of context.

I only commented on the rare/exceptional cases - effectively defined as those cases where you are no longer getting useful feedback from doctors.

Rare things are rare for a reason. In engineering, in any field, in biology, life isn't always 100% clear cut. But for the most part, for most people, most of the time, doctors will find and manage the most important conditions. And remember doctors have to deal with patients, and patients can also be a problem too. Your family physician (GP in the US) has to know a lot about different types of people - men, women, newborns, pregnant women, infants, young children, adolescents and geriatric patients never mind there are now also people of different genders as well to add to the variety.

However logical proof shows that modern medicine saves lives and prolongs expectancy. Medicals do work.

People with Stage IV cancer and now living far longer than they've done before and cancer screening picks up more cancer earlier. https://science.slashdot.org/story/...e-cancer-survivors---and-theyre-living-longer

Meanwhile your colleagues do stuff like this:

Male-Oriented App 'TeaOnHer' Also Had Security Flaws That Could Leak Men's Driver's License Photos - Slashdot

The women-only dating-advice app Tea "has been hit with 10 potential class action lawsuits in federal and state court," NBC News reported last week, "after a data breach led to the leak of thousands of selfies, ID photos and private conversations online." The suits could result in Tea having...

it.slashdot.org

The kind of interactions you get with doctors are the best of their sort, you will get far worse with other professions including 'STEM'. Doctors at least are regulated, and in your beloved US of A, you can sue if you want.

This happens a lot more frequently than you seem to think. Yes, this is based on my experience, but it is also based on the experience of family, friends and quite frankly, I would expect anyone over the age of 45 to know of similar situations. The idea that I need a study to show that this happens a fair amount is just an appeal to ignorance. My point is that when you reach that stage (at whatever frequency it may occur), there is still a lot more that can be done by caring parties, given that one can spend far more time on the problem than a doctor, especially given the resources one has available today.

You are more than welcome to spend as much time as you want researching. The point is not to attack professionals and claim you will will always know better and to claim that complicated problems can't be solved by them. Even if you've read a 1000 articles about cough, it doesn't mean you understand how it works, given you didn't even know appendicitis can cause coughing and because Cleveland didn't tell you that, you didn't know.

Secondly, yes, you know your body well. Nobody feels your body as you do. You are in your body. Everyone should get to know their own body, be aware of the common symptoms they experience and know how it behaves. You have pain somewhere, what happened earlier on- oh yes you twisted your back and you always have such pain after twisting your back, that type of symptom is likely innocent. But now the pain you have is different, it's not the same sort of nature or intensity or it's there for longer or it spreads elsewhere - that's now possibly an issue to look into.

A good idea is to also keep a symptom diary or a list when seeing the doctor. That way you won't forget anything and won't feel rushed.

 

[Mirai]

Despite strict annual medicals required for my work, which included a stress ECG and lung function,

I would be weary of strict physicals for work. They did their job. They were to exclude things like coronary artery disease and even stress ECGs won't always pick that up but regardless. They weren't geared to picking up your hiatus hernia. Your employer is not vexed by heartburn or esophageal spasm but is concerned that you may arrest during work or such and then he'll have a lawsuit so he covers his butt. Work physicals are not there to replace general physicals where you are the client and the patient.

A large French multi-billion company where a relative of mine used to work, also does annual physicals. Do you know what the physicals entailed? An HIV test.

 

[cguy]

At this point, it is evident that you either can't parse English, or you're being willingly obtuse.

Dude, the penny still hasn't dropped for you.

Rare things are rare for a reason. In engineering, in any field, in biology, life isn't always 100% clear cut. But for the most part, for most people, most of the time, doctors will find and manage the most important conditions. And remember doctors have to deal with patients, and patients can also be a problem too. Your family physician (GP in the US) has to know a lot about different types of people - men, women, newborns, pregnant women, infants, young children, adolescents and geriatric patients never mind there are now also people of different genders as well to add to the variety.

However logical proof shows that modern medicine saves lives and prolongs expectancy. Medicals do work.

People with Stage IV cancer and now living far longer than they've done before and cancer screening picks up more cancer earlier. https://science.slashdot.org/story/...e-cancer-survivors---and-theyre-living-longer

Meanwhile your colleagues do stuff like this:

Male-Oriented App 'TeaOnHer' Also Had Security Flaws That Could Leak Men's Driver's License Photos - Slashdot

The women-only dating-advice app Tea "has been hit with 10 potential class action lawsuits in federal and state court," NBC News reported last week, "after a data breach led to the leak of thousands of selfies, ID photos and private conversations online." The suits could result in Tea having...

it.slashdot.org

The kind of interactions you get with doctors are the best of their sort, you will get far worse with other professions including 'STEM'. Doctors at least are regulated, and in your beloved US of A, you can sue if you want.

You are more than welcome to spend as much time as you want researching. The point is not to attack professionals and claim you will will always know better and to claim that complicated problems can't be solved by them. Even if you've read a 1000 articles about cough, it doesn't mean you understand how it works, given you didn't even know appendicitis can cause coughing and because Cleveland didn't tell you that, you didn't know.

Secondly, yes, you know your body well. Nobody feels your body as you do. You are in your body. Everyone should get to know their own body, be aware of the common symptoms they experience and know how it behaves. You have pain somewhere, what happened earlier on- oh yes you twisted your back and you always have such pain after twisting your back, that type of symptom is likely innocent. But now the pain you have is different, it's not the same sort of nature or intensity or it's there for longer or it spreads elsewhere - that's now possibly an issue to look into.

A good idea is to also keep a symptom diary or a list when seeing the doctor. That way you won't forget anything and won't feel rushed.

 

[Mirai]

LOL and I'm sorry but how many hacks have there been? How many database leaks have we had? Credit bureaus? Banks? Even government offices? Even script kiddies hacking into the CIA/FBI. Usually because of some silly security flaw or laziness. How many bugs do we encounter in games and software? How many times have Windows updates and other updates lost peoples' data? We had an f-up a couple months ago where it affected the internet. Some sort of Microsoft Office, BS update. And this is run on computer systems, systems which are under 100% control of the software engineers. It's not like the human body where you see through a glass darkly but you see everything here and you can design the thing from scratch and test it and you know the inputs and these are limited and yet STEM graduates fsck this up all the time. And I would bet more PhDs wouldn't solve this.

 

[Mirai]

At this point, it is evident that you either can't parse English, or you're being willingly obtuse.

Ok Boomer.

 

[cguy]

LOL and I'm sorry but how many hacks have there been? How many database leaks have we had? Credit bureaus? Banks? Even government offices? Even script kiddies hacking into the CIA/FBI. Usually because of some silly security flaw or laziness. How many bugs do we encounter in games and software? How many times have Windows updates and other updates lost peoples' data? We had an f-up a couple months ago where it affected the internet. Some sort of Microsoft Office, BS update. And this is run on computer systems, systems which are under 100% control of the software engineers. It's not like the human body where you see through a glass darkly but you see everything here and you can design the thing from scratch and test it and you know the inputs and these are limited and yet STEM graduates fsck this up all the time. And I would bet more PhDs wouldn't solve this.

^ if misplaced defensiveness had a face.

 

[Mirai]

^ if misplaced defensiveness had a face.

Human condition buddy.

So tell me, why are STEM graduates such fsck ups all the time? Is it intelligence they lack, or the time or the diligence? Or they're just lazy? Or they don't have 10 minutes to solve the issue? Corporations with the biggest amounts of cash, eg Microsoft, Apple, Nvidia, Oracle, Intel and others.

Oh Intel, all these security flaws which neutered the super performance of these CPUs and made them vulnerable to attack. AMD too. And even Apple Silicon. All full of flaws. Just mediocrity after mediocrity.

Boeing with their fsck ups. Killing passengers.

 

[cguy]

Human condition buddy.

So tell me, why are STEM graduates such fsck ups all the time? Is it intelligence they lack, or the time or the diligence? Or they're just lazy? Or they don't have 10 minutes to solve the issue? Corporations with the biggest amounts of cash, eg Microsoft, Apple, Nvidia, Oracle, Intel and others.

Oh Intel, all these security flaws which neutered the super performance of these CPUs and made them vulnerable to attack. AMD too. And even Apple Silicon. All full of flaws. Just mediocrity after mediocrity.

Boeing with their fsck ups. Killing passengers.

Are you a doctor? This line of argumentation is intellectually embarrassing.

 

[Mirai]

Are you a doctor? This line of argumentation is intellectually embarrassing.

I'm just being you.

 

[cguy]

I'm just being you.

You are arguing against a straw man of your own making.

 

[Mirai]

You are arguing against a straw man of your own making.

I've applied some generalisation based on some cherry picked and much publicised cases.
This is also what you did except in your situation these were not publicised.

 

[cguy]

I've applied some generalisation based on some cherry picked and much publicised cases.
This is also what you did except in your situation these were not publicised.

This is what you think I did, but only because you haven't followed my argument.

What actually happened is that someone not in your sacred profession dared to criticize it. This incensed you so, that without even trying to understand the argument, you spent the next several pages railing against a straw man built of your own insecurities.

 

[Mirai]

This is what you think I did, but only because you haven't followed my argument.

What actually happened is that someone not in your sacred profession dared to criticize it. This incensed you so, that without even trying to understand the argument, you spent the next several pages railing against a straw man built of your own insecurities.

I critiqued your 'arguments' which were mere assertions. You got upset and started throwing insults. You threw out a lot, even appeals to authority and you used cherry picking and anecdotes. All I've been doing is trying to explain the process of a primary care consultation to you. That's fine if you're not receptive. Thanks for playing and good night.