Uniforum... *sigh*... again

davemc said:
Okay Wiz, you win.

Lets spend R10-60m or so on the upgrades and the kickbacks and the policy changes and the training to get the damn thing upgraded to web services that you can hook into, and a default web interface (website) that you can use instead of the web services.

When the WEB services or website crash, then you have to keep on trying till the web services/interfaces are back up.
You will no longer have the luxury of an SMTP server doing all the retrying for you.

Then, how do you propose to change the way that Uniforum works?

Currently, all the respondents are given 24 hours to respond with a REJECT or an ACCEPT. Now, during the 24 hours, even if they had originally sent an ACCEPT, they can still resend a REJECT if they change their minds. This is a safety measure.

So, you want to drop the safety measure? Okay. Fine.

That now means that the 24 hour wait is not needed once all the ACCEPT's are in.

In my experience, the DNS providers are asked to ACCEPT as well, and they never ever reply, so you end up waiting for 24 hours anyway.

So, after spending R10-60m, what have you actually achieved?

You've replaced an email system with a web system that still takes 24 hours to complete the updates.

Perhaps you should concentrate on removing the DNS owner ACCEPT from the procedure instead?
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I'm sorry davemc, WTF?

There's no need to retry anything if they moved away from a ticket based system sending email messages to a server. Are you awake? Have you been online for longer than 2 minutes? EVERY REGISTRAR IN THE WORLD has a website where you can login and register/update from. No need for tickets to be accepted by parties. No need to dance around a bond fire to the gods of SMTP to update anything. Because it's done almost instantly. On the server itself. Not only that they make an API available to you.

Website... going down? Webservices down? What kind of two-bit-flee-ridden company THAT'S A REGISTRAR FOR AN ENTIRE COUNTRY IF NOT MORE will only have ONE server?

YOU need the reality check here...

Plus it won't cost R60 million to re-do. I can do it for R500k
 
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It always surprises me to see the people defending substandard service offerings on this forum. I really don't think there is any excuse for Uniform not having a first - world web interface.
 
RavenServers said:
It always surprises me to see the people defending substandard service offerings on this forum. I really don't think there is any excuse for Uniform not having a first - world web interface.
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Raven,

I'm curious - if they had this web interface, why would any of your clients register with you and not go directly to them?
 
@ AcidRaZor , SoftDux

You are forgetting one tiny little FACT.

That .co.za belongs to government, and as such, it is controlled by government policy.

My budget at R10m - R60m is smack on the money.
Have you seen how much is government wastes on a teensy weensy little swearing ceremony?

@ Freshy , SoftDux

I've said it once, I'll say it again, and this time, pay attention:

If you want to get rid of the delays, then get Uniforum to petition government to change their policies. Throwing a different user interface at the system is not going to solve the delay problem.

Now that we're all reading on the same page:

- Who of you would like to pursue the policy change?
- How are you going to reassure the existing domain holders that the 24 hour safety wait is safe to remove?

I can tell you that right now I would think twice before removing the safety 24 hours wait. TIA.
 
davemc said:
@ AcidRaZor , SoftDux

You are forgetting one tiny little FACT.

That .co.za belongs to government, and as such, it is controlled by government policy.
<SNIP>
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huh - how do you figure that?

- Who of you would like to pursue the policy change?
- How are you going to reassure the existing domain holders that the 24 hour safety wait is safe to remove?

I can tell you that right now I would think twice before removing the safety 24 hours wait. TIA.
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now - on this i can agree with you :-)

but don't forget http://www.ispa.org.za/zadna.shtml where this process has already started
 
@orange, tell us more about the ownership then please. I cannot remember in exactly which act I saw the co.za domain mentioned in.
 
orange said:
Raven,

I'm curious - if they had this web interface, why would any of your clients register with you and not go directly to them?
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What bollox is this? Clients can also register their own coza domains now? So are you saying that Uniforum has deliberately made the process complicated to help people like Raven? Raven you should be thanking them my friend.

Again if I wanted a Nanny id get one. I want a modern registrar with modern interfaces operating in a similar way that the rest of the world seems to be successfully doing. Clients ask me to register com domains on their behalf all the time yet they could easily register through eNom, Directnic or one of the others very efficient interfaces. But they dont. AND they dont even need to have a web hosting account in place like Uniforum tries to enforce.

Orange, I believe you work for Uniforum so obviously you are going to defend their systems.
 
Freshy-ZN said:
What bollox is this? Clients can also register their own coza domains now? So are you saying that Uniforum has deliberately made the process complicated to help people like Raven? Raven you should be thanking them my friend.
Click to expand...

looks like they deliberately don't want to deal with end users....

Again if I wanted a Nanny id get one. I want a modern registrar with modern interfaces operating in a similar way that the rest of the world seems to be successfully doing.
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yeah - I'd like to see you register anything direct with Verisign (the .com domain registry) - you can't. you have to talk EPP, build your interfaces for your client, pay lots of money to ICANN for the privilege, and pay around US$5 for each name.

or you can go to one of the registrars who've done this for you (and they add a markup) - hmmm sounds like AcidRaZor's friend...... or http://www.hetzner.co.za or http://www.vanilla.co.za or https://vweb.co.za/park.php in fact - there's a whole bunch to chose from: http://www.ispa.org.za/domain_registration.shtml


Clients ask me to register com domains on their behalf all the time yet they could easily register through eNom, Directnic or one of the others very efficient interfaces. But they dont. AND they dont even need to have a web hosting account in place like Uniforum tries to enforce.

Orange, I believe you work for Uniforum so obviously you are going to defend their systems.
Click to expand...

Yeah - me and davemc - dave - i forgot - how do you like your coffee - i'm going to get another cup....
 
davemc said:
Okay Wiz, you win.

When the WEB services or website crash, then you have to keep on trying till the web services/interfaces are back up.
You will no longer have the luxury of an SMTP server doing all the retrying for you.
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eNom has over 20 API servers, do a API call on "http://reseller.enom.com/Interface.asp?Command=" and you will see the server number. If the SMTP server way is such a "luxury" then why arn't all registrants using this way?

We will not have to rely on a mail server to make sure our registrations go through, a web interface can tell us in a few seconds if they have received the domain order or not, no waiting for some email to confirm it.

orange said:
Raven,

I'm curious - if they had this web interface, why would any of your clients register with you and not go directly to them?
Click to expand...

For the simple reason of simplicity. Clients don't have time to go setup the domain on their own and pay another company. It's the same reason people register international domains with South African hosts instead of going directly to eNom and Godaddy etc, *most* clients prefer to make one payment to the host then to sort out the domain technical details and credit card payment themselves.

- How are you going to reassure the existing domain holders that the 24 hour safety wait is safe to remove?

I can tell you that right now I would think twice before removing the safety 24 hours wait. TIA.
Click to expand...

The fact that updating name servers on .com/etc etc TLD's is so much more efficient then the COZA system. A simple login to your eNom account and all your domains are in one place, you can update multiple domains NS at a time.

At the end of the day .com domain can have their NS updated in 5 minutes, COZA is 24 hours +, while this wait period is still in place the whole COZA system stay sub-standard.

COZA doesn't even have a proper WHOIS server..
 
JasonH said:
er, whois server running on port 43?
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last time i looked whois.coza.net.za:43 - but some people don't consider that to be adequate....

How about some feedback on the rest of my post?
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err why? - some people think instant updates are good - others don't. you belong in the first category....
some people think mailto is an adequate way to protect domain registrations, others think that keys are a good idea.
some people think that it is ok for a registry to compete with their clients (aka co.za currently) - while others (aka the .com system) think it is a bad idea.
some people don't know the difference between registry and registrar.

If a registry picks one - they'll piss off the people who like the other one.....
 
orange said:
last time i looked whois.coza.net.za:43 - but some people don't consider that to be adequate....



err why? - some people think instant updates are good - others don't. you belong in the first category....
some people think mailto is an adequate way to protect domain registrations, others think that keys are a good idea.
some people think that it is ok for a registry to compete with their clients (aka co.za currently) - while others (aka the .com system) think it is a bad idea.
some people don't know the difference between registry and registrar.

If a registry picks one - they'll piss off the people who like the other one.....
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Hm, "telnet whois.internic.net 43" type your domain, you get the output.
"telnet whois.coza.net.za 43" start typing your domain and you get "incorrect Query" maybe some people consider that inadequate because it doesn't work?

I don't see people complaining about international TLDs, you can hide your whois details, lock the domain to the registrar etc
 
orange said:
err why? - some people think instant updates are good - others don't. you belong in the first category....
some people think mailto is an adequate way to protect domain registrations, others think that keys are a good idea.
some people think that it is ok for a registry to compete with their clients (aka co.za currently) - while others (aka the .com system) think it is a bad idea.
some people don't know the difference between registry and registrar.

If a registry picks one - they'll piss off the people who like the other one.....
Click to expand...

Some people? Could you please highlight any (and all) registrars that require (note FORCE) you to email tickets, wait 24-48 hours (or longer) and doesn't have a web interface?

For every 1 you can mention (except co.za themselves) I will give you 10 registrars that DOESN'T follow the same train of thought.

So who are Uniform appealing to? The masses? I think not.... so your whole argument that the registrar is just doing what most people want is false. Remember, the internet makes the world a very small place to be in. So by claiming they're just doing this to appeal to the masses and a lot of people will be pissed off if they change is just...plain...wrong.

edit/ We're not talking registries but registrars. much like ICANN is the authority on .com so is Uniform to .co.za, yet, you're forced to go to them yourself and have no real registrars being able to expose the .co.za NS
 
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JasonH said:
Hm, "telnet whois.internic.net 43" type your domain, you get the output.
"telnet whois.coza.net.za 43" start typing your domain and you get "incorrect Query" maybe some people consider that inadequate because it doesn't work?
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hey - works for me and my whois client... perhaps you want to take it up with them.....

I don't see people complaining about international TLDs, you can hide your whois details, lock the domain to the registrar etc
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i hang out in different places to you - I see tonnes of complaints ;-) (even some on this board ;) )
 
So what Orange and Dave are saying is that the Uniforum system is perfect as is (even better than all the others in the world in fact) and that Uniforum will not entertain any input from hostages I mean clients.
 
AcidRaZor said:
<SNIP>
So who are Uniform appealing to? The masses?
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definitely doesn't look like it to me - but i've got better things to do than ask them.

We're not talking registries but registrars. much like ICANN is the authority on .com so is Uniform to .co.za, yet, you're forced to go to them yourself and have no real registrars being able to expose the .co.za NS
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like i said 'some people don't know the difference between registry and registrar' - you belong in that category.

the only registry ICANN operate is the IANA registry - and you've totally missed the zadna.

Let me spell it out: checkout http://www.icann.org which will lead you to http://www.iana.org/domains/root/db/za.html which will lead you to http://www.zadna.org.za/slds.html which will lead you to http://co.za .
 
Freshy-ZN said:
So what Orange and Dave are saying is that the Uniforum system is perfect as is (even better than all the others in the world in fact) and that Uniforum will not entertain any input from hostages I mean clients.
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I have no idea what davemc thinks, and i'm definitely not going to put words in his mouth (did you miss the irony in my earlier post and actually believe what you want to believe?).

As for uniforum - you should ask them; there's even a toll-free number http://co.za/contact.shtml

Forget to say: me personally - I think there's a lot to improve in the current co.za system
 
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orange said:
hey - works for me and my whois client... perhaps you want to take it up with them.....

i hang out in different places to you - I see tonnes of complaints ;-) (even some on this board ;) )
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Just tested in php and the whois server does work

Registered %referral url:http://www.coza.net.za/cgi-bin/whois.sh?Domain=blablaaa
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Quite a less less info then:

Domain Name: xxxxxxxxx
Registrar: GODADDY.COM, INC.
Whois Server: whois.godaddy.com
Referral URL: http://registrar.godaddy.com
Name Server: NS1.xxxxxxxx.NET
Name Server: NS2.xxxxxxxx.NET
Status: clientDeleteProhibited
Status: clientRenewProhibited
Status: clientTransferProhibited
Status: clientUpdateProhibited
Updated Date: 18-nov-2008
Creation Date: 29-nov-2005
Expiration Date: 29-nov-2009
Click to expand...

And there's no point in build a script to pull the info due to the data mining restrictions COZA have, just shows how little power their system has.
 
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