Unrestricted APN Needed ?

[b@nD]

Further to another post

http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php/449703-Cellular-IP-routing

Seeing as the SIM is a Vodacom one and therefor their network , here's hoping

Does anyone on the VodaCOM technical team have any idea ?

I found this on the Vodafone support forum

We can certainly help you further here.
Whilst the Cisco HWIC 3G is not a device that we have sold I can certainly provide you with a little further assistance.
I have spoken with the specialist technical team,and they have advised that we can provide you with our APN details.

The APN settings are below:

APNS :
[-]vfinternet.au (postpay)[/-]
[-]vfprepaymbb (prepaid)[/-]
Username : none
Password : none
Dynamic ip address not Static


Not sure what they mean by "Dynamic" as opposed to "Static"

According to Cisco the HWIC IS supported on the network.

South Africa
Comliance complete on HWIC-3G-HSPA(MC8790)
MTN
HWIC-3G-HSPA-G K2.0.7.19 15.1(1)T
HWIC-3G-HSPA K1.0.2.18 15.1(1)T & 15.0(1)M K2.0.7.19

Vodacom
HWIC-3G-HSPA-G K2.0.7.19 15.1(1)T
HWIC-3G-HSPA K1.0.2.18 15.1(1)T & 15.0(1)M K2.0.7.19


Do I need to provision the SIM in some way ?
Do I need the "Unrestricted" APN ?

 

[Peon]

I think you're complicating a very simple problem. What is your goal?

 

[b@nD]

Gaol <sic>

I think you're complicating a very simple problem.
What is your goal?

To connect to a cellular provider and use that connection to connect a subnet /24 to the Internet using private IP addresses and NAT overload ( pat )

Sounds quite simple -- as they say in the classics *the devil is in the detail.*

So
I can connect.
I am given a public IP ( for the router dialer interface )
I am not given a public IP that I can use to PAT the rest of the subnet
( PAT uses arbitrary ports for the overload -- this is where I think the problem is ? )

Dialer0 is up, line protocol is up
  Internet address is 41.9.21.113/32
  Broadcast address is 255.255.255.255
  Address determined by IPCP

=========

Fangorn#sh ip dns view
DNS View default parameters:
Logging is off
DNS Resolver settings:
  Domain lookup is enabled
  Default domain name:
  Domain search list:
  Lookup timeout: 3 seconds
  Lookup retries: 2
  Domain name-servers:
    196.207.35.29
    196.207.35.30
DNS Server settings:
  Forwarding of queries is enabled
  Forwarder timeout: 3 seconds
  Forwarder retries: 2
  Forwarder addresses:

=========

Fangorn#traceroute 196.207.35.29

Type escape sequence to abort.
Tracing the route to dnscache1-dne.3g.vodacom.co.za (196.207.35.29)

  1 10.17.15.11 292 msec 320 msec 260 msec
  2 10.242.202.2 300 msec 300 msec 288 msec
  3  *  *  *
  4  *  *  *
  5  *  *  *
  6  *  *  *
  7  *  *

Type escape sequence to abort.
Tracing the route to ndf-cache1-vif0.saix.net (196.43.9.21)

  1 10.17.15.12 320 msec 288 msec 284 msec
  2 10.242.202.2 320 msec 292 msec 288 msec
  3 vc-196-207-35-36.3g.vodacom.co.za (196.207.35.36) 280 msec 292 msec 288 msec
  4 vc-196-207-35-244.3g.vodacom.co.za (196.207.35.244) 292 msec 76 msec 100 msec
  5 41.0.148.1 112 msec 208 msec 100 msec
  6 41.0.144.5 80 msec 88 msec 92 msec
  7 nngy-ip-esr-1-wan.telkom-ipnet.co.za (196.25.91.61) 108 msec 80 msec 112 msec
  8 196.43.20.154 120 msec 88 msec 92 msec
  9  *  *  *
 10  *  *  *
 11  *  *  *
 12  *  *

As you can see
the Dialer is up
An public IP is allocated
DNS has been allocated

However the first hop from the Dialer Interface is to the "terrible TENS"

The traceroute never completes.

It appears that I am not being given a routable IP address ?

Maybe someone from Vodacom can explain ?

Pages and pages more of diagnostic read out.

 

[jannievanzyl]

While we all are suitably impressed, maybe giving a simple explanation of what you want to do might help us help you?

Sounds like you're trying to connect a number of computers to the internet over a single mobile connection in a typical SME type of setup?

Thousands of Vdacom subscribers do this daily with the various different routers available using the Internet APN so I suspect a router configuration issue.

Which area are you in?

 

[b@nD]

Clarity

While we all are suitably impressed, maybe giving a simple explanation of what you want to do might help us help you?

More ou Grote
Impressed is not the intention -- connection is

Sounds like you're trying to connect a number of computers to the internet over a single mobile connection in a typical SME type of setup?

YES -- the typical application would be a construction site office that uses ADSL and HSPA either as a primary or as a backup.

Thousands of Vodacom subscribers do this daily with the various different routers available using the Internet APN so I suspect a router configuration issue.

CISCO is NOT "thousands of routers"

Which area are you in?

KZN PMBG

This is the template and manual that I am working from

Configuring 3G Wireless WAN on Modular and Fixed ISRs (HWIC-3G-GSM, HWIC-3G-HSPA, PCEX-3G-HSPA-x)

I have also looked at a number of similar configs and they are all pretty much the same

As I mentioned in another post the way in which the ADSL IP addresses are allocated is different to the way in which the Cellular IP's are allocated.

This is all done via IPCP ( IP address negotiated ) -- over which I have no control

ADSL supplies TWO IP addresses -- one for the router interface and one for the interface that needs to be NATTED

Far as I can see Vodacom are only supplying an IP for the router interface -- whether this makes a difference or not I do not have the experience to say ?

I will be going to get an 8ta SIM today and this will give me an idea of how other Operators are configured ( apparently 8ta have an "open" network ? )

Maybe one of your corporate Vodacom reps has a corporate client with a similar setup ?
Being a corporate client they probably get someone like DiData to do their network IT ?
I prefer doing stuff myself as I am not in the millionaire class

Hope this clarifies things
Please let me know if you need more info
Thanks

 

[PsyWulf]

The default Vodacom APN is already NATed,unrestricted APN provisions your sim a single un-NATed IP address you can use for incoming connections

You just posted a bucketload of extraneous information that didn't really help define your requirement As for if the Cisco compatibility - maybe

 

[b@nD]

Simple

The default Vodacom APN is already NATed
unrestricted APN provisions your sim a single un-NATed IP address you can use for incoming connections
You just posted a bucketload of extraneous information that didn't really help define your requirement
As for if the Cisco compatibility - maybe

Dear Sir -Are you by any chance a CCIE ?

It is very simple

Today I will get an 8ta SIM
I will then see what if any difference it makes

When Vodacom get their wheels turning , I will get a SIM configured for the "unrestricted" APN
I will then see what if any difference it makes.

These are simple and cost effective steps ( to satisfy myself )

 

[PsyWulf]

Obvious troll is obvious ^ Do as you like,you will find no help while you refuse to ask the right questions

CCIE while prestigious for those who care or need it,is of little use if you cannot accurately convey simple information

More than 1 person here alluded to your trouble conveying requirements myself included,so perhaps you should look to yourself to find a problem

 

[b@nD]

Questions

Do as you like,you will find no help while you refuse to ask the right questions

There are NO "right" questions -- there are also NO "stupid" questions ( only answers )

CCIE while prestigious for those who care or need it,is of little use if you cannot accurately convey simple information

Strange that I always hear that from people that do NOT have that qualification ?

More than 1 person here alluded to your trouble conveying requirements myself included,so perhaps you should look to yourself to find a problem

How much simpler or explicit do you want me to make it ?

to connect to a cellular provider and use that connection to connect a subnet /24 to the Internet using private IP addresses and NAT overload ( pat )

WHAT about this do you not understand ?

 

[Sinbad]

Just because there are 10 addresses in the traceroute doesn't mean you have an unroutable ip address.
The connection looks fine. I am willing to get you've cocked up the NAT settings.

 

[b@nD]

Thank G D for the Australians !


I then spent some time with our other mobile broadband sim (which is vanilla NextG) thats not too tough to get working in one of these HWIC's and I have a nice non routable Natted IP 10.x.x.x in minutes.

After reading a few posts on whirlpool I gave the Mobile Data team a call and asked for the code GPTEXB3 to be added to my sim. They we're only too happy to do that, however they did mention that the code was to apply Trimble Fleet Management confgiuration exceptions. Apparently my Cisco router is now considerd a vehicle (with GPS) that requires two way commincations with "Head Office".

All I did was change my APN to telstra.extranet and whamo. Cellular 0/0/0 now has a dynamic but very public IP address 123.x.x.x.

Source = Whirlpool

( Strange -- I also have a TRIMBLE GPS )

They should come and teach the Vodacom springboks a few lessons

In short -- it appears I need the Unrestricted APN

Capiche !

 

[b@nD]

Router -- Rowter

Just because there are 10 addresses in the traceroute doesn't mean you have an unroutable ip address.
The connection looks fine.
I am willing to get you've cocked up the NAT settings.

I am connecting to the router via console cable ( which obviously does not have an IP )
I am pinging from the router using the given IPCP IP address ( so NO NAT there ) Dialer0's allocated PUBLIC IP ( but which is still DYNAMIC )
This IP is allocated to the outside interface ( Dialer0 ) NAT *outside*
The NAT needs to take place on the IP that the internal network connects to NAT *inside*

It would appear that the IP on the outside interface cannot be NATTED ( your external gateway )
In the case of the ADSL the ESSR routers gateway.

( At least that is how I understand it ? )

The 10.x.x.x IP's appear to be Vodacom's "sandbox" from which everything is controlled
Perhaps because their IP allocation is so constrained they are using non standard procedures ?

Anyway -- perhaps Bra VODA can get a proper McCoy network engineer on the line to explain ?

 

[Sinbad]

You overload onto the external interface's address.

 

[jannievanzyl]

I am connecting to the router via console cable ( which obviously does not have an IP )
I am pinging from the router using the given IPCP IP address ( so NO NAT there ) Dialer0's allocated PUBLIC IP ( but which is still DYNAMIC )
This IP is allocated to the outside interface ( Dialer0 ) NAT *outside*
The NAT needs to take place on the IP that the internal network connects to NAT *inside*

It would appear that the IP on the outside interface cannot be NATTED ( your external gateway )
In the case of the ADSL the ESSR routers gateway.

( At least that is how I understand it ? )

The 10.x.x.x IP's appear to be Vodacom's "sandbox" from which everything is controlled
Perhaps because their IP allocation is so constrained they are using non standard procedures ?

Anyway -- perhaps Bra VODA can get a proper McCoy network engineer on the line to explain ?

You mean a CCIE that actually understands Cisco and TCP/IP?

 

[b@nD]

Answers

You mean a CCIE that actually understands Cisco and TCP/IP?

YES -- that exactly

It appears that 8ta now also follow your bad example

Gateway of last resort is 0.0.0.0 to network 0.0.0.0

S*    0.0.0.0/0 is directly connected, Dialer0
      41.0.0.0/32 is subnetted, 1 subnets
C        41.151.152.113 is directly connected, Dialer0
      128.1.0.0/32 is subnetted, 1 subnets
C        128.1.1.1 is directly connected, Loopback0
      192.168.40.0/24 is variably subnetted, 2 subnets, 2 masks
C        192.168.40.0/24 is directly connected, FastEthernet0/0
L        192.168.40.3/32 is directly connected, FastEthernet0/0
Fangorn#traceroute www.8ta.com

Translating "www.8ta.com"...domain server (196.207.35.29) [OK]

Type escape sequence to abort.
Tracing the route to www.8ta.com (165.143.158.47)

  1  *  *  *
  2 172.16.3.1 44 msec 88 msec 60 msec
  3 172.16.3.129 60 msec 48 msec 60 msec
  4 ndn-ip-hsll-1-wan.telkom-ipnet.co.za (196.25.7.73) 52 msec 48 msec 52 msec
  5 nbsc-ip-er-1-pos-8-0-0.telkom-ipnet.co.za (196.43.25.146) 68 msec 72 msec 68 msec
  6 telkom-sa-tienet-gw.telkom-ipnet.co.za (196.25.54.62) 60 msec 72 msec 68 msec
  7  *  *  *
  8  *  *  *
  9  *  *  *
 10  *  *  *
 11  *  *  *
 12  *  *  *
 13  *

Now seeing as I do not understand IP perhaps someone can tell me if the following IP's

172.16.3.1 44 msec 88 msec 60 msec
172.16.3.129 60 msec 48 msec 60 msec

are public or private ?

Private IPv4 address spaces

similar to

10.17.15.11 292 msec 320 msec 260 msec
10.242.202.2 300 msec 300 msec 288 msec

So Bra VODA what do you say to that ?

I do not really care whatever you imply by your comments
All I am after is a working solution ..........
Please bring along the network engineer that understands CISCO and IP

PS; my "unrestricted" APN should be ready 24hrs after the first working day which is Monday
( according to the Vodacare centre )

Then we will see what the difference is

 

[jannievanzyl]

YES -- that exactly

It appears that 8ta now also follow your bad example

Hmmm...so what's the common denominator?

Now seeing as I do not understand IP perhaps someone can tell me if the following IP's

172.16.3.1 44 msec 88 msec 60 msec
172.16.3.129 60 msec 48 msec 60 msec

are public or private ?

Private IPv4 address spaces

So Bra VODA what do you say to that ?

I'd say if you actually read the link you posted you would've instantly seen the answer to your own question.

It clearly states the 2 IP's you posted are private.

Or did you miss that?

 

[ambo]

      128.1.0.0/32 is subnetted, 1 subnets
C        128.1.1.1 is directly connected, Loopback0

Why are you using this IP on your loopback interface? Are you part of bbn.com ?

172.16.3.1 44 msec 88 msec 60 msec
172.16.3.129 60 msec 48 msec 60 msec

are public or private ?

10.17.15.11 292 msec 320 msec 260 msec
10.242.202.2 300 msec 300 msec 288 msec

The mobile operators use RFC1918 addresses on their GGSNs and PS Core... Get over it. Its unlikely to make any difference to your service and you're focussing on the wrong issues.

All I am after is a working solution ..........
Please bring along the network engineer that understands CISCO and IP

It is not Vodacom's responsibility to configure your router. If you explain to us what the problem is that you're seeing then we may at least be able to propose a solution...

And for good measure, please provide the output of:

show interface description
show ip interface brief
show ip route
traceroute 8.8.8.8

 

[PsyWulf]

Fairly certain this guy is trolling,nobody could be this blindly oblivious

 

[Sinbad]

Listen bud - just because there are private IPs on your traceroute, does not mean YOU have a private IP address.
Your publically routable IP address CAN traverse private ip subnets inside your ISP's network...
If you doubt me, consider that just about every single point-to-point serial connection on a cisco router ever configured is probably 10.0.0.1 and 10.0.0.2

If it's not working, as I said before, you've stuffed up the overload/nat config.

 

[b@nD]

Print-Out

Why are you using this IP on your loopback interface?
Are you part of bbn.com ?

I found it in a config test example
Assumed as it was an example it could be used -- my bad
As I understand a loopback -- it allows you to access the router if there is a problem with a hardware interface ?
IF I understand correctly the IP I am using on loopback0 is not being used outside the router ?

What do you propose I change it to ( atm I only need it accessible to my own network -- private) ?

The mobile operators use RFC1918 addresses on their GGSNs and PS Core... Get over it.
Its unlikely to make any difference to your service and you're focussing on the wrong issues.

WHAT should I be foccusing on ?

It is not Vodacom's responsibility to configure your router.
If you explain to us what the problem is that you're seeing then we may at least be able to propose a solution...

Sure -- I am NOT expecting them to
But are network operators faultless and without mistake in ALL situations ?

And for good measure, please provide the output of:

show interface description
show ip interface brief
show ip route
traceroute 8.8.8.8

Here goes

1.) Show Interfaces

[B]Fangorn#sh int[/B]
FastEthernet0/0 is up, line protocol is up
  Hardware is Gt96k FE, address is 9c4e.2070.195e (bia 9c4e.2070.195e)
  Description: FA0/0
  Internet address is 192.168.40.3/24
  MTU 1500 bytes, BW 100000 Kbit/sec, DLY 100 usec,
     reliability 255/255, txload 1/255, rxload 1/255
  Encapsulation ARPA, loopback not set
  Keepalive set (10 sec)
  Full-duplex, 100Mb/s, 100BaseTX/FX
  ARP type: ARPA, ARP Timeout 04:00:00
  Last input 00:00:22, output 00:00:04, output hang never
  Last clearing of "show interface" counters 1d10h
  Input queue: 0/75/0/0 (size/max/drops/flushes); Total output drops: 0
  Queueing strategy: fifo
  Output queue: 0/100 (size/max)
  5 minute input rate 0 bits/sec, 0 packets/sec
  5 minute output rate 0 bits/sec, 0 packets/sec
     4646 packets input, 512591 bytes
     Received 3467 broadcasts, 0 runts, 0 giants, 0 throttles
     0 input errors, 0 CRC, 0 frame, 0 overrun, 0 ignored
     0 watchdog
     0 input packets with dribble condition detected
     12718 packets output, 766616 bytes, 0 underruns
 --More--
*Jul 23 08:22:57.579 SAST: TTY0: resume timer type 1 (OK)
     0 output errors, 0 collisions, 0 interface resets
     0 unknown protocol drops
     0 babbles, 0 late collision, 0 deferred
     0 lost carrier, 0 no carrier
     0 output buffer failures, 0 output buffers swapped out
FastEthernet0/1 is up, line protocol is down
  Hardware is Gt96k FE, address is 9c4e.2070.195f (bia 9c4e.2070.195f)
  Description: FA0/1
  Internet address is 192.168.30.7/24
  MTU 1500 bytes, BW 100000 Kbit/sec, DLY 100 usec,
     reliability 255/255, txload 1/255, rxload 1/255
  Encapsulation ARPA, loopback not set
  Keepalive set (10 sec)
  Auto-duplex, Auto Speed, 100BaseTX/FX
  ARP type: ARPA, ARP Timeout 04:00:00
  Last input never, output never, output hang never
  Last clearing of "show interface" counters 1d10h
  Input queue: 0/75/0/0 (size/max/drops/flushes); Total output drops: 0
  Queueing strategy: fifo
  Output queue: 0/100 (size/max)
  5 minute input rate 0 bits/sec, 0 packets/sec
  5 minute output rate 0 bits/sec, 0 packets/sec
     0 packets input, 0 bytes
     Received 0 broadcasts, 0 runts, 0 giants, 0 throttles
     0 input errors, 0 CRC, 0 frame, 0 overrun, 0 ignored
     0 watchdog
     0 input packets with dribble condition detected
     12714 packets output, 766376 bytes, 0 underruns
     0 output errors, 0 collisions, 0 interface resets
     0 unknown protocol drops
     0 babbles, 0 late collision, 0 deferred
     0 lost carrier, 0 no carrier
     0 output buffer failures, 0 output buffers swapped out
Serial0/1/0 is administratively down, line protocol is down
  Hardware is GT96K Serial
  MTU 1500 bytes, BW 1544 Kbit/sec, DLY 20000 usec,
     reliability 255/255, txload 1/255, rxload 1/255
  Encapsulation HDLC, loopback not set
  Keepalive set (10 sec)
  CRC checking enabled
  Last input never, output never, output hang never
  Last clearing of "show interface" counters 1d10h
  Input queue: 0/75/0/0 (size/max/drops/flushes); Total output drops: 0
  Queueing strategy: weighted fair
  Output queue: 0/1000/64/0 (size/max total/threshold/drops)
     Conversations  0/0/256 (active/max active/max total)
     Reserved Conversations 0/0 (allocated/max allocated)
     Available Bandwidth 1158 kilobits/sec
  5 minute input rate 0 bits/sec, 0 packets/sec
  5 minute output rate 0 bits/sec, 0 packets/sec
     0 packets input, 0 bytes, 0 no buffer
     Received 0 broadcasts, 0 runts, 0 giants, 0 throttles
     0 input errors, 0 CRC, 0 frame, 0 overrun, 0 ignored, 0 abort
     0 packets output, 0 bytes, 0 underruns
     0 output errors, 0 collisions, 0 interface resets
     0 unknown protocol drops
     0 output buffer failures, 0 output buffers swapped out
     0 carrier transitions
     DCD=down  DSR=down  DTR=down  RTS=down  CTS=down

Cellular0/0/0 is administratively down, line protocol is down
  Hardware is HSPA/UMTS/EDGE/GPRS-850/900/1800/1900/2100MHz
  Description: Modem Interface for Cellular Network
  MTU 1500 bytes, BW 384 Kbit/sec, DLY 20000 usec,
     reliability 255/255, txload 1/255, rxload 1/255
  Encapsulation PPP, LCP Closed, loopback not set
  Keepalive not supported
  Last input 1d10h, output 1d10h, output hang never
  Last clearing of "show interface" counters 1d10h
  Input queue: 0/75/0/0 (size/max/drops/flushes); Total output drops: 0
  Queueing strategy: fifo
  Output queue: 0/10 (size/max)
  1 minute input rate 0 bits/sec, 0 packets/sec
  1 minute output rate 0 bits/sec, 0 packets/sec
     19 packets input, 366 bytes, 0 no buffer
     Received 0 broadcasts, 0 runts, 0 giants, 0 throttles
     0 input errors, 0 CRC, 0 frame, 0 overrun, 0 ignored, 0 abort
     20 packets output, 318 bytes, 0 underruns
     0 output errors, 0 collisions, 2 interface resets
     0 unknown protocol drops
     0 output buffer failures, 0 output buffers swapped out
     0 carrier transitions
     DCD=up  DSR=up  DTR=up  RTS=up  CTS=up

Dialer0 is administratively down, line protocol is down
  Hardware is Unknown
  Description: Dialer-Connection-to-Vodacom
  Internet address will be negotiated using IPCP
  MTU 1500 bytes, BW 56 Kbit/sec, DLY 20000 usec,
     reliability 255/255, txload 1/255, rxload 1/255
  Encapsulation PPP, LCP Closed, loopback not set
  Keepalive set (10 sec)
  DTR is pulsed for 1 seconds on reset
  Last input never, output never, output hang never
  Last clearing of "show interface" counters 1d10h
  Input queue: 0/75/0/0 (size/max/drops/flushes); Total output drops: 0
  Queueing strategy: fifo
  Output queue: 0/40 (size/max)
  5 minute input rate 0 bits/sec, 0 packets/sec
  5 minute output rate 0 bits/sec, 0 packets/sec
     0 packets input, 0 bytes
     0 packets output, 0 bytes
Loopback0 is up, line protocol is up
  Hardware is Loopback
  Internet address is 128.1.1.1/32
  MTU 1514 bytes, BW 8000000 Kbit/sec, DLY 5000 usec,
     reliability 255/255, txload 1/255, rxload 1/255
  Encapsulation LOOPBACK, loopback not set
  Keepalive set (10 sec)
  Last input never, output never, output hang never
  Last clearing of "show interface" counters 1d10h
  Input queue: 0/75/0/0 (size/max/drops/flushes); Total output drops: 0
  Queueing strategy: fifo
  Output queue: 0/0 (size/max)
  5 minute input rate 0 bits/sec, 0 packets/sec
  5 minute output rate 0 bits/sec, 0 packets/sec
     0 packets input, 0 bytes, 0 no buffer
     Received 0 broadcasts, 0 runts, 0 giants, 0 throttles
     0 input errors, 0 CRC, 0 frame, 0 overrun, 0 ignored, 0 abort
     0 packets output, 0 bytes, 0 underruns
     0 output errors, 0 collisions, 0 interface resets
     0 unknown protocol drops
     0 output buffer failures, 0 output buffers swapped out
NVI0 is up, line protocol is up
  Hardware is NVI
  Interface is unnumbered. Using address of FastEthernet0/0 (192.168.40.3)
  MTU 1514 bytes, BW 56 Kbit/sec, DLY 5000 usec,
     reliability 255/255, txload 1/255, rxload 1/255
  Encapsulation UNKNOWN, loopback not set
  Keepalive set (10 sec)
  Last input never, output never, output hang never
  Last clearing of "show interface" counters 1d10h
  Input queue: 0/75/0/0 (size/max/drops/flushes); Total output drops: 0
  5 minute input rate 0 bits/sec, 0 packets/sec
  5 minute output rate 0 bits/sec, 0 packets/sec
     0 packets input, 0 bytes, 0 no buffer
     Received 0 broadcasts, 0 runts, 0 giants, 0 throttles
     0 input errors, 0 CRC, 0 frame, 0 overrun, 0 ignored, 0 abort
     0 packets output, 0 bytes, 0 underruns
     0 output errors, 0 collisions, 0 interface resets
     0 unknown protocol drops
     0 output buffer failures, 0 output buffers swapped out

The rest to follow

I will explain in another post