Urban Legend - disconnect battery?

Dolby

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Sometime ago I went throught a dyno day and someone recommended disconnecting the battery for 30 minutes, as he reckoned it'd clear the ECU and you'd get a few extra KW power.

I dismissed this as an urban legend until on Sunday, I left my key in the ignition and killed my battery. Once I started it again, the car felt slightly stronger than before - noticably so. Two others commented as well.

Is it possible - or is my imagination? :/

I - unfortunatly - hadn't tried in-gear acceleration before - but I'm now managing 80-140km/h (4th gear) in under 10 seconds.
 
Sometime ago I went throught a dyno day and someone recommended disconnecting the battery for 30 minutes, as he reckoned it'd clear the ECU and you'd get a few extra KW power.

I dismissed this as an urban legend until on Sunday, I left my key in the ignition and killed my battery. Once I started it again, the car felt slightly stronger than before - noticably so. Two others commented as well.

Is it possible - or is my imagination? :/

I - unfortunatly - hadn't tried in-gear acceleration before - but I'm now managing 80-140km/h (4th gear) in under 10 seconds.

Smells like bullshyt tbh.
 
I have doubts about this.

Surely the ECU has default settings, which is what the car comes with.
It would almost certainly keep these settings on complete loss of power.

Unless for some reason, the ECU is changed from default, and the killing of the battery and removing of power restores it back to its "better" default.

I would imagine these devices have a small on board battery anyway, in order to maintain settings on power outages. It would certainly last more than 30 minutes.

Just my thoughts, could be way off
 
Yea - totally agree :/

I think explaination was something along the lines after the ECU adapts to a driving style - and clearing it makes it 'default'. Not sure - but I'm going to Google.
 
I have doubts about this.

Surely the ECU has default settings, which is what the car comes with.
It would almost certainly keep these settings on complete loss of power.

Unless for some reason, the ECU is changed from default, and the killing of the battery and removing of power restores it back to its "better" default.

I would imagine these devices have a small on board battery anyway, in order to maintain settings on power outages. It would certainly last more than 30 minutes.

Just my thoughts, could be way off

Only read this now - yea ... that's something along the lines of what I heard :/
 
Total BS. ECU stores settings/data in EEPROM. Battery has no direct effect on engine. Myth Busted.

Was just about to post similar - ECU programming is in non volatile memory, a loss of power will do a big fat nothing to it.
 
On another note : I Google disconnect battery before dyno ... and this was the 1st link :/

Didn't realise it was so quick/real time!
 
Total BS. ECU stores settings/data in EEPROM. Battery has no direct effect on engine. Myth Busted.

Was just about to post similar - ECU programming is in non volatile memory, a loss of power will do a big fat nothing to it.

Can't reaaaaally expect high level programmers/techies/persons of interest to know how eeproms work if they haven't worked with it themselves. I'll never forget nearly failing my 1st test because of not bloody writing my var to the eeprom. Press button, it works! Let go of button, awh crap it reset! :mad:

Good old 16F84's...
 
What about the learning curve and adjusting to driving style of certain cars?
 
Actually the ECU does store data which is cleared when the battery is disconnected.

The following values *may* be stored, it is stored in volatile memory so removing the battery means that data is lost.
- Idle control values: Used to correct idle, nothing related to performance but rather how the car will idle. Usually after the values are lost the car might struggle to start at first or idle badly and then recover.
- Ignition advance values: If the car is fitted with a knock sensor the ECU keeps track of the last ignition advance values. The knock sensor can detect knock before it damages the engine, then the ignition timing is retarded. After a while the ECU tries once more to advance the ignition timing, if the knock sensor picks something up the ignition is retarded again. This cycle continues because advancing the ignition timing increases fuel efficiency and power. The last best values are stored when you switch off the car. But they *can* constantly change.
- O2 adjustment values. Cars fitted with a exhaust O2 sensor might increase or decrease the mixture (amount of fuel injected) based on input from the exhaust O2 sensor. OEM cars are usually tuned to run lean because exhaust cat. needs a lean mixture, lean mixtures also increase fuel efficiency. The downside is the car feels less responsive (performance isn't decreased it just feels less responsive) and the engine runs hotter. The last *correct* values are stored.

Please note that O2 adjustment is ignored by all vehicles at full throttle (even those fitted with dual precision wide band O2 sensors). The reason it probably feels more responsive tho is because of O2 adjustments, however that will only be at partial throttle. Ignition values are adjusted so quickly that the car will very quickly return back to the values they had before. Idle will almost always be worse until the values are re-calibrated.

Also none of these values are static, they are constantly changing. Any other data used by the sensors are determined at run-time and storing them would have no logical purpose.

Because ignition values are determined so quickly (I mean you drive down your street (200-300m) and it will have the values it would be at anyway regardless if the data was cleared or not), if you don't have an O2 sensor it is probably in your mind. If you do have an O2 sensor those values will return fairly quickly (depending on how long the O2 sensor takes to heat up to operating temperatures).
 
Actually the ECU does store data which is cleared when the battery is disconnected.

The following values *may* be stored, it is stored in volatile memory so removing the battery means that data is lost.
Except those values are all intended to optimize the engine, so resetting them is more likely to result in a performance drop than gain. Even worse the defaults like O2 are likely to be on the conservative side so that they can claim better CO2 values & efficiency when the car rolls off the factory floor.

I know though that you can reset the overall throttle response feel with a laptop uplink. e.g. BMWs driven by a conservative driver for a while have a very sluggish feel to them because the electronics have adapted. Reset that & it feels more responsive.
 
Except those values are all intended to optimize the engine, so resetting them is more likely to result in a performance drop than gain. Even worse the defaults like O2 are likely to be on the conservative side so that they can claim better CO2 values & efficiency when the car rolls off the factory floor.

Erm, well the ECU has a target O2 value, even if they manually set those values before the car starts, once the O2 sensor provides feedback (which even in SA winter will be within minutes, probably less than a minute), the values will quickly be replaced. The values are never static, they may simply be saved for when you start the car again.

I know though that you can reset the overall throttle response feel with a laptop uplink. e.g. BMWs driven by a conservative driver for a while have a very sluggish feel to them because the electronics have adapted. Reset that & it feels more responsive.
Probably the O2 adjustment but if you drive at full throttle there will be no difference because the ECU runs at Open Loop mode while @ wide open throttle. It is the same for all ECUs and all fuel injection methods. Open Loop mode ignores any stored values and also ignores input from the O2 sensor and uses directly the data programmed into the EEPROM. The reason is to prevent knock and possible engine damage (knock at wide open throttle can very quickly destroy an engine, too quickly for on the fly adjustment by the ECU to be safe).

So if they say the car feels sluggish it is because they are driving at partial throttle and the mixture is lean but I assure you that the ECU cannot learn driving style or even run leaner than the target value. An engine runs too lean has a propensity to knock (leaner mixtures have much much higher chances of knock), the engine also runs exponentially hotter the leaner the mixture (so much so that a car running just a little too lean will melt a spark plug and the exhaust glows red). There is NO WAY a OEM would allow the ECU to adjust leaner than the target value. The target value wouldn't change regardless of driver. The engineers determine the target value when designing the engine. It isn't something that is adjusted by a lowly BMW mechanic.

There is however *usually* an overall multiplier that can be adjusted by those types of tools used by garages (usually, but it depends on the fuel injection method used). The adjustment however is a SINGLE value and is NOT specific to RPM and LOAD (IE. it is an overall value). The reason for this value is that sensors (like the mass flow and exhaust O2 sensor) may stray from the real values and this multiplier allows it to once again report the correct values. They do this kind of adjustment by running the car at a predetermined RPM and LOAD and then setting that value according to their specifications. It is then accepted that an OEM car will run withing spec throughout the map if that single value was correctly adjusted. That value cannot be adjusted by the ECU, it is adjusted with a tool ONLY.

OEMs don't willy-nilly allow their garage techs to adjust engine maps. The reasons should be obvious. Guess it may be possible that some OEMs allow it but I know for a fact that OEMs like GM don't allow that sort of thing (The tool cannot adjust engine map, just reprogram already created maps and adjust a value or two here and there).
 
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Except those values are all intended to optimize the engine, so resetting them is more likely to result in a performance drop than gain. Even worse the defaults like O2 are likely to be on the conservative side so that they can claim better CO2 values & efficiency when the car rolls off the factory floor.

+1 it would take some km's for it to retrain itself if I could call it that.
 
On a Subaru, if you disconnect the battery you have to take the car through three start cycles to tell the computer to work properly again, as for gaining extra performance, that is pure rubbish, I'm afraid, otherwise you would have every Tom Dick and Harry doing it for a few extra horses on a Saturday night! :rolleyes:
 
The car I'm driving at present - my dad's old E39 5-series - felt a little sluggish to me. This sent me on a quest across the innernetz and brought up numerous instances on forums and whatnot talking about this ubiquitous ECU reset procedure. Disconnect the battery, leave ignition open, yada yada... Thing is, it actually did make a perceivable difference. My theory is that's it's not so much an ECU reset as that it resets various adaptation values to default. I suspect it has more to do with the auto box's adaptive shift programme than anything else, but there was a definite improvement in response.

But no, I did not magically gain 80kW. :( :p
 



Sure that relates more to transmission than engine management itself, but the effect is the same: Throttle response feels sluggish. And its not just a theoretical thing. My dads old BMW felt sluggish like that. Then he got a new one & it felt sharp. Couple months later it learned and now it feels sluggish too.

You're right though that the engine mapping etc does not adapt.

Ah never considered the gearbox. I only know engine ECUs. Are those automatic transmission? Surely a manual transmission cannot "learn" anything that would change your driving experience as you shift yourself...

Any IMHO the only way to confirm this is with 0-100, 100-200 and dyno tests. Even if it is the transmission box. Reason should be obvious, it wouldn't be the first time people are convinced that there is a difference based on "perception". It is one of the mayor reasons the scientific community only accept blind tests or double blind testing.
 
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