US: Libya 'routinely' tortures prisoners

[sox63]

http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.aspx?articleid=301258&area=/breaking_news/breaking_news__africa/

This sounds like a case of "the pot calling the skittle black"

 

[kilo39]

Ja all the trolls on this forum gleefully gloss over Bush's Rendition Program: a licence to torture. Oh know that you are being kept safe in your bed because some poor peep is having his finger nails forcibly removed in Pakistan or wherever. And electrodes attached to his genitals and waterboarding and worse. Never mind the ones who die and end up in piles of bodies in Iraq for instance. DISGUSTING. But let's support their LIES.



The practice garnered renewed attention and notoriety in September 2006 when reports charged that the Bush administration had authorized its use in the interrogations of U.S. War on Terrorism detainees.[5] Though the Bush administration has never formally acknowledged its use, Vice President Dick Cheney told an interviewer that he did not believe "a dunk in water" to be a form of torture but rather a "very important tool" for use in interrogations, including that of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.

 

[LoneGunman]

"And tell me General, how do you KNOW that Libya tortures prisoners?"

"Well, we see the marks on our prisoners bodies, when we pick them up
from Libyan prisons, along with the files of extracted information."

 

[kilo39]

Disgusting.

alanf, "Oh, but this is the price of freedom!"

 

[arf9999]

Well the USA can't exactly claim to have the high ground here...

Libya may well torture prisoners, but so do some of the US's allies:
Jordan, Egypt, Pakistan, and various east European states...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition

 

[Alan]

Disgusting.

alanf, "Oh, but this is the price of freedom!"

Someone called?

Just out of interest what happend to those Abu Graib soldiers who tortured those "inmates".

Oh yes what happend to those soldiers who flushed the Koran down the toilet in Gitmo and what happened to those U.K soldiers who's victims were splashed on the cover of "the Mirror"

As I've said before I don't believe in torture. But using "rough" interrogation techniques are fine IMO. How else are you gonna get them to talk. Ask nicely, tickle them with a feather . Anyway they aren't random innocent people plucked out of nowhere like you like to claim.

If you want to see innocent people tortured to death and piled up then look at the insurgents. But you're to scared to look in that direction aren't you

 

[kilo39]

Someone called?

Just out of interest what happend to those Abu Graib soldiers who tortured those "inmates".

Oh yes what happend to those soldiers who flushed the Koran down the toilet in Gitmo and what happened to those U.K soldiers who's victims were splashed on the cover of "the Mirror"

As I've said before I don't believe in torture. But using "rough" interrogation techniques are fine IMO. How else are you gonna get them to talk. Ask nicely, tickle them with a feather . Anyway they aren't random innocent people plucked out of nowhere like you like to claim.

If you want to see innocent people tortured to death and piled up then look at the insurgents. But you're to scared to look in that direction aren't you

Abu Graib soldiers: more to the point, what happened to their officers or commanders overseeing this whole fiasco?

toilet in Gitmo: more to the point, according to 'you lot' this didn't happen. Now maybe you would like to prove it did?

U.K soldiers: again, seems these soldiers have no commanders?

No I'm not scared to look in anyones direction. Are you?

Piles of bodies? Well who knows, do we?

rough interrogation: what a sick SAD joke.

 

[Alan]

Abu Graib soldiers: more to the point, what happened to their officers or commanders overseeing this whole fiasco?

Well what happened to them? Guess I'm going to have go get the links

toilet in Gitmo: more to the point, according to 'you lot' this didn't happen. Now maybe you would like to prove it did?

Exactly It didn't happen.

U.K soldiers: again, seems these soldiers have no commanders?

I sure they don't because those "soldiers" didn't exist.

No I'm not scared to look in anyones direction. Are you?

Really? You sure about that. Give it some more thought

Piles of bodies? Well who knows, do we?

I'm sure if you looked you'd find them. Here's a start.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200509/s1468880.htm

http://archive.gulfnews.com/articles/07/03/03/10108403.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/19/i...tml?ex=1276833600&en=8711248f5a2b9fe6&ei=5088

rough interrogation: what a sick SAD joke.

So you are a proponent of the sweet talk and tickle procedure . No wonder extremists love you guys

 

[Skeptik]

The SAPS regularly slaps people around in the cells. We can't ignore that either.

 

[LoneGunman]

"But using "rough" interrogation techniques are fine IMO." says alanf85

If its 'fine' - then remember you have no one to blame but yourself,
when your turn comes, or your childrens turn comes one day.

Starting down the slippery road of deciding that Nation X is 'allowed'
to torture, means the bar slips for what constitutes decent modern
civilization.

What's your complaint going to be if, for instance, the ANC starts operating
the same way on citizens it decides might have information? (Which it does
anyway, for what its worth - most of the torturers who operated during
Apartheid, are still working in SA prisons).

If 'torture' is fine for others, then try not to scream too loudly, when it
happens to you. Unless you honestly think that there's no situation when
you or your children in the future, might end up running foul of this or some
other Government.

The price of freedom is never paid by removing the obstacles to becoming
an animal.

To argue that the price of freedom can be paid, by allowing sadistic torture
to exist in the modern world, is to become like all those honestly confused and
horrified people in Germany, who genuinely believed they were free, and 'living
under the best possible system in the world', when the Allies invaded and began
bombing their cities to rubble, and uncovering the death camps, and making
many confront, for the first time, just how degenerate they had become,
without being aware of it.

Its 'moral mission creep' to ever allow torture. No exceptions.

 

[Alan]

I never said torture should be allowed

 

[kilo39]

Oh yes what happend to those soldiers who flushed the Koran down the toilet in Gitmo and what happened to those U.K soldiers who's victims were splashed on the cover of "the Mirror"

So now, where is the lie?

US admits Koran abuse at Cuba base
Guantánamo probe uncovers 'mishandling' by troops
Josh White and Dan Eggen in Washington
Sunday June 5, 2005

The US military confirmed yesterday that soldiers and interrogators at Guantánamo Bay did desecrate copies of the Koran.
Brigadier General Jay Hood, who led an inquiry into the allegations, confirmed that there had been five cases of intentional or unintentional mishandling of the holy book. They included getting copies wet, standing on a Koran during an interrogation, and 'inadvertently' spraying urine on a copy.

I never said torture should be allowed

As I've said before I don't believe in torture. But using "rough" interrogation techniques are fine IMO. How else are you gonna get them to talk. Ask nicely, tickle them with a feather . Anyway they aren't random innocent people plucked out of nowhere like you like to claim.

If you want to see innocent people tortured to death and piled up then look at the insurgents. But you're to scared to look in that direction aren't you

Torture is torture however you want to claim otherwise.

As to your usual rhetoric happened to come across this:

Back in 1938 there was not much sign of Britain’s press undermining national interests — interests as defined by Neville Chamberlain’s government, which fancied that Adolf Hitler and Benito Mussolini would become fine international citizens once their territorial ambitions were appeased. Chamberlain’s idea of peace required suppressing ample evidence that Europe’s dictators were violently dangerous, and the press, with certain honorable exceptions, assisted him, agreeing that resistance to Hitler was unthinkable because he possessed, as The Times said, “weapons of mass destruction.” In spite of Chamberlain the people took the national interest — the world’s interest, one might say — into their own hands, and in September 1939 forced a hallucinating government to face the need for war. Seven months later popular pressure led to Chamberlain’s replacement by Winston Churchill.
-
something like a moron . . . incapable of learning from most people in the world, no matter how much experience they may have . . . that may be much greater than yours.
Official Secrets

IOW. No thanks to people like you. Or rather, despite people like you.

 

[Alan]

So now, where is the lie?

Hmm you left out something.

But the Guantánamo commander said he found no evidence to support a further allegation that US personnel flushed a Koran down a toilet at the camp in Cuba. That claim, in a magazine article, led to anti-American riots in Afghanistan, Pakistan, India and Indonesia in which 16 people died and more than 100 were injured.

Another report, in July 2003, detailed an incident in which a contract interrogator stood on a detainee's Koran. He was fired for 'unacceptable behaviour'.

The report notes that the guard responsible reported himself to his superiors and was reassigned to different duties, while the detainee was given a new uniform and Koran.

'The guard had left his observation area post and went outside to urinate,' according to a summary of the incident. 'He urinated near an air vent and the wind blew his urine through the vent into the block.'

Torture is torture however you want to claim otherwise.

So tickling their feet with a feather is torture as well. Tell me Kilo how would you go about extracting information from these people?

Oh and you were "the people". You are a pacifist . It became so abundantly clear Chamberlain had to resign. By then it was to late.

 

[kilo39]

Hmm you left out something.

What exactly? Please point to definitive incidents if you want to prove some point (and point me at them) otherwise I have no clue WTF you're talking about.

So tickling their feet with a feather is torture as well. Tell me Kilo how would you go about extracting information from these people?

Oh and you were "the people". You are a pacifist . It became so abundantly clear Chamberlain had to resign. By then it was to late.

I wouldn't. I wouldn't be starting unjustifiable wars and detaining thousands of people on no charge. Your claim is specious.

Yes, I am the people. The same people who fought the war for just purposes unlike what is happening here.