US to destroy its largest remaining chemical weapons cache

Garyvdh said:
No not apart... that in fact proves their tremendous restraint.
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Dropping one would have been restrained, dropping the only two that they had material to make at the time doesn't show that much restraint.
 
Cray said:
Dropping one would have been restrained, dropping the only two that they had material to make at the time doesn't show that much restraint.
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How many have they made and dropped on people since then?
 
Garyvdh said:
How many have they made and dropped on people since then?
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How many other Nuclear weapons have been dropped by other nations since then? Why did the US feel the need to annihilate two major population centres to get their point across?
 
Cray said:
How many other Nuclear weapons have been dropped by other nations since then? Why did the US feel the need to annihilate two major population centres to get their point across?
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Because they didn't feel the need to send ground troops in and increase the death toll by a million.
 
I am pretty sure the only reason they have not destroyed it earlier is probably due to the cost. I am sure it is not easy to destroy 780000 of those units.
 
thestaggy said:
Because they didn't feel the need to send ground troops in and increase the death toll by a million.
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Proportionate causalities which is more fair.

Also that's out of sight, out of mind as opposed to the discomfort of having to witness a visible mushroom cloud of destruction. So not cool.
 
zippy said:
The genie is already out of the bottle. Can never eradicate nuclear weapons. The only reason they getting rid of chemical weapons is that they are obsolete when you have the nuclear deterrent that they have.

Anyone who really believes that everyone on the planet will agree to not build nuclear weapons and stick to that pledge is seriously deluded.
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All it means is that they have something more effective in the pipeline.
 
thestaggy said:
Because they didn't feel the need to send ground troops in and increase the death toll by a million.
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So you don't think they could have achieved the same result by only nuking one city?
 
Cray said:
So you don't think they could have achieved the same result by only nuking one city?
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Bringing a war to and end that cost 50 million lives is the most apt definition of restraint you will ever find.
 
Garyvdh said:
Bringing a war to and end that cost 50 million lives is the most apt definition of restraint you will ever find.
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So you don't think that the Japanese would have surrendered from just the one nuke, it had to be two? Perhaps the war could have been ended without killing 39000–80000 people in Nagasaki?
 
Cray said:
So you don't think that the Japanese would have surrendered from just the one nuke, it had to be two? Perhaps the war could have been ended without killing 39000–80000 people in Nagasaki?
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I wasn't there, I can't say what would have happened in your speculative scenario.
I only have what actually happened in history to work with.
The Japanese didn't surrender after the first one, they only surrendered after the second one.
The war ended.
 
As I recall Nagasaki was originally only the 4th on the list to target but was moved to second place after Kyoto was deemed too culturally important and Kokura was overcast on the day.
 
paul5186 said:
I am pretty sure the only reason they have not destroyed it earlier is probably due to the cost. I am sure it is not easy to destroy 780000 of those units.
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That is possible..

Or maybe these shells are now all useless because the agent inside has now degraded and is useless.
 
Cray said:
So you don't think that the Japanese would have surrendered from just the one nuke, it had to be two? Perhaps the war could have been ended without killing 39000–80000 people in Nagasaki?
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Then why didnt they surrender after the first bomb ?

I'll help. They thought the Americans didnt have another bomb. Then after the second bomb, they thought, oh crap. That and the fact the Soviets had just belatedly declared war.
 
Trumans statement after Nagasaki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrender_of_Japan

The British, Chinese, and United States Governments have given the Japanese people adequate warning of what is in store for them. We have laid down the general terms on which they can surrender. Our warning went unheeded; our terms were rejected. Since then the Japanese have seen what our atomic bomb can do. They can foresee what it will do in the future.

The world will note that the first atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima, a military base. That was because we wished in this first attack to avoid, insofar as possible, the killing of civilians. But that attack is only a warning of things to come. If Japan does not surrender, bombs will have to be dropped on her war industries and, unfortunately, thousands of civilian lives will be lost. I urge Japanese civilians to leave industrial cities immediately, and save themselves from destruction.

I realize the tragic significance of the atomic bomb.

Its production and its use were not lightly undertaken by this Government. But we knew that our enemies were on the search for it. We know now how close they were to finding it. And we knew the disaster which would come to this Nation, and to all peace-loving nations, to all civilization, if they had found it first.

That is why we felt compelled to undertake the long and uncertain and costly labor of discovery and production.

We won the race of discovery against the Germans.

Having found the bomb we have used it. We have used it against those who attacked us without warning at Pearl Harbor, against those who have starved and beaten and executed American prisoners of war, against those who have abandoned all pretense of obeying international laws of warfare. We have used it in order to shorten the agony of war, in order to save the lives of thousands and thousands of young Americans.

We shall continue to use it until we completely destroy Japan's power to make war. Only a Japanese surrender will stop us
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Cray said:
How many other Nuclear weapons have been dropped by other nations since then? Why did the US feel the need to annihilate two major population centres to get their point across?
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The US planned to continue dropping atomic bombs until Japan surrendered.

In its strategic analysis prior to the atomic bombings, the US did anticipate that a single bomb might not convince Japan that the US had a sufficient supply of bombs for a sustained campaign of atomic bombing and planned to drop the second atomic bomb soon after the first. After Hiroshima, the Japanese military did argue precisely that, that the US did not have a supply of atomic bombs, and so the war should continue.

The US did not have the atomic bombs to undertake atomic bombing at a rapid pace for long. In August 1945, the US had the two bombs used on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. A third bomb was ready to be dropped August 19 - 20. A fourth bomb would have been ready in September and thereafter one bomb a month was produced up to January 1946.

Keep in mind that the timeline of events was extremely compressed and it is unlikely that a single atomic bombing would have brought about a Japanese surrender:

July 26: US, UK and China issued the Potsdam Declaration outlining the terms for Japan's surrender.

July 28: Japan rejected the Potsdam Declaration in a public statement.

August 6: the US drops atomic bomb on Hiroshima.

August 9: USSR declares war on Japan and invades Manchuria. The US drops second atomic bomb on Nagasaki. Japanese Supreme War Council meets to discuss atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Soviet attack; the council deadlocks on conditional agreement to the Potsdam Declaration terms. The Japanese government holds a full cabinet meeting - cabinet deadlocks again on acceptance of the Potsdam terms. An Imperial Council is held to discuss surrender beginning at midnight.

August 10, 2:00am: Imperial Council agrees to accept the Potsdam terms with the addition of a condition that the Emperor's powers not be altered. Telegrams indicating acceptance of the Potsdam terms with reservations are sent to the Allies through Swiss diplomats.

It is important to note that between the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, there was no meeting of high level Japanese government leaders though there was plenty of behind the scenes maneuvering with Japanese military leaders trying to thwart a meeting in which surrender could be discussed while civilian leaders were trying to bring a meeting off.

Even the news of the atomic bombing of Nagasaki arrived during the Supreme War Council on August 9 did not break the deadlock on agreement to the Potsdam Declaration.
 
MightyQuin said:
Destroy it by dumping at all on ISIS....2 birds with one stone.
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ISIS is also made up of British, American & French citizens fo a significant amount. If that wasn't the case more would've been done to stop it already. More genuine reasons than the Iraq invasion, yet US remains cautious in its approach. They know whow they would capture and want nothing to do with th repercussions. Lots and lots of Kim Philbys, Robert Hanssens and Aldrich Ames.;)
 
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