Varsity students drop out like flies

[yebocan]

Entrance requirements have been lowered, you can't let every tom, dick & harry in. The school system is in shambles and you can't expect someone that just scrapes by to make it.
Allocate your positions to the high achievers, else you are just wasting funds. Allocate positions on industry needs so focus on STEM, do we really need 50k ba pol sci graduates a year that wont find work?

+1

priority is to fix the mess downstream...the school system...they were warned, watering down the school system is going to mess up tertiary...the ****en system is screwed up.

 

[silkenphoenixx]

priority is to fix the mess downstream...the school system...they were warned, watering down the school system is going to mess up tertiary...the ****en system is screwed up.

Tertiary isn't an end in itself though. It's just a link in the chain - a broken school system results in a mass of unemployable adults and a broken economy. Broken tertiary of course doesn't help with this.

 

[buka001]

Well, back in the early 2000's we started as 86 engineers in my discipline, and only 11 finished.

That being said, entry to engineering was a bit stricter back then, and most of the "drop-outs" only changed to another B.Sc degree

I agree with ponder on the industry focus for bursaries and grants, but the problem is not the need. The problem is that these students do not have the basic foundation to finish these industry required degrees, even if they do get grants.

The groundwork for any university/technical degree is laid during the secondary educational phase.

Same here.

Started engineering in 2000 with a class of 70ish. Of that around 15 graduated in 2003. We picked up a few people who started ahead who had failed etc.

The biggest drop was from 1st year to 2nd year.

 

[Temujin]

Entrance requirements have been lowered, you can't let every tom, dick & harry in. The school system is in shambles and you can't expect someone that just scrapes by to make it.
Allocate your positions to the high achievers, else you are just wasting funds. Allocate positions on industry needs so focus on STEM, do we really need 50k ba pol sci graduates a year that wont find work?

^^

 

[nightjar]

An additional hundred thousand Human sciences students majoring in political science every year won't benefit the economy.

That too.
The really sad bit is that the dropouts were probably pushed ahead of more academically able candidates.

 

[2026]

Entrance requirements have been lowered, you can't let every tom, dick & harry in. The school system is in shambles and you can't expect someone that just scrapes by to make it.
Allocate your positions to the high achievers, else you are just wasting funds. Allocate positions on industry needs so focus on STEM, do we really need 50k ba pol sci graduates a year that wont find work?

Working as intended, you keep them around long enough to provide funds and then smash them out of the final years.

I had a discussion with the head of the department the one year while still studying, asking why the first year (in particular, first semester) was so much easier than 2nd and 3rd years of the course.

He told me that 3rd year equipment was expensive, and the budget is influenced via the number students enrolled in the department's courses. So they made sure students passed most of first year to effectively increase the budget. They would then proceed to filter out 90% of the students for 2nd year (where the real challenge starts).

I usually smile and laugh when people say varsity is easy when they are still in the first semester of first year...

 

[konfab]

The lowering quality of the matric papers is also a massive problem. Everyone who is working "hard" for a matric is being lied to by the government. Right now that exam is the equivalent of the participation award.

The truth in this instance would be a lot kinder to students than the easy B.S that they call a matric paper. The entire school system should be set to something that is international and that works: the Cambridge system. Then if you do well in those papers, you have a pretty good chance of getting through university.

 

[2026]

The lowering quality of the matric papers is also a massive problem. Everyone who is working "hard" for a matric is being lied to by the government. Right now that exam is the equivalent of the participation award.

The truth in this instance would be a lot kinder to students than the easy B.S that they call a matric paper. The entire school system should be set to something that is international and that works: the Cambridge system. Then if you do well in those papers, you have a pretty good chance of getting through university.

I was comparing matric curriculum vs other curriculums about 15 years ago and you can see the other curriculums are ahead. Grade 12 work was that of like grade 10/grade 11 of the other curriculum.

And that was 15 years ago in a model C school, I'm sure the current matric curriculum will shock me more.

 

[Adrianax]

Yeah, don't drop out, FFS! Just keep doing what you doing. You will get your free degree.

 

[Okty]

Well, back in the early 2000's we started as 86 engineers in my discipline, and only 11 finished.

That being said, entry to engineering was a bit stricter back then, and most of the "drop-outs" only changed to another B.Sc degree

I agree with ponder on the industry focus for bursaries and grants, but the problem is not the need. The problem is that these students do not have the basic foundation to finish these industry required degrees, even if they do get grants.

The groundwork for any university/technical degree is laid during the secondary educational phase.

Also the same experiance, early 2000s.

I wonder if the study takes this into account, i.e. first year drop out, but then enrol second year into another degree?

 

[furpile]

They would then proceed to filter out 90% of the students for 2nd year (where the real challenge starts).

I usually smile and laugh when people say varsity is easy when they are still in the first semester of first year...

That was second year dynamics for mech eng. Took some people 3 or 4 years to pass that.

And a lot of first year is basically a repetition of matric so it shouldn't be a surprise that it is not that hard.

As an average dropout rate for a university I think 60-70% is bad, but in some courses that is not unusual. When I did engineering they told us basically on yhe first day that only 1 out of 3 or 4 will finish in 4 years.

Also, to fix the school system now will only see results in more than 20 years time, so we will have a whole generation where people are not able to get through varsity effectively, further diminishing the pool of skilled workers.

 

[dlk001]

I just been through a recruitment drive for engineering professionals.

- 2 x grade 12 students
- 3 x final year students

This is for our Professional In Training Programme to develop Geotechnical Engineers. 7 years from grade 12 and 3 years for graduates. Unfortunately companies, including mine, have reduced their support for bursaries, learnerships etc. Times are hard.

The idea is to develop skills until a level of professional competency where a candidate is suitable for professional registration . Thereafter, we might offer them fulltime employment if we have space.

We never had one single drop out because a student is assigned a mentor, coach from 1st year right throughout their development.

This programme was developed by Anglo, DeBeers, Goldfields for engineering students in the 90's mainly focusing on HDSAs but we now apply it to every person.

 

[Nicodeamus]

I just been through a recruitment drive for engineering professionals.

- 2 x grade 12 students
- 3 x final year students

This is for our Professional In Training Programme to develop Geotechnical Engineers. 7 years from grade 12 and 3 years for graduates. Unfortunately companies, including mine, have reduced their support for bursaries, learnerships etc. Times are hard.

The idea is to develop skills until a level of professional competency where a candidate is suitable for professional registration . Thereafter, we might offer them fulltime employment if we have space.

We never had one single drop out because a student is assigned a mentor, coach from 1st year right throughout their development.

This programme was developed by Anglo, DeBeers, Goldfields for engineering students in the 90's mainly focusing on HDSAs but we now apply it to every person.

It sounds like a program that attracts the top graduates. I graduated from civil in 2013. 1/4 made it in time. In France in my masters class we were about 8/10

 

[dlk001]

It sounds like a program that attracts the top graduates. I graduated from civil in 2013. 1/4 made it in time. In France in my masters class we were about 8/10

I also graduated in Civil at UCT but the drop out rate was not near as bad. The probability of graduating once you get through the first year was high. Most mainstream students finished in 5 years and the Academic Support Program students also finished in 5 years.

Our program is to create top professionals who will be marketable for employment. Good marks are important for securing the interviews but successful candidates are hardly the top academics.

Its usually a combination of drive for results, willingness to learn, emotional stability, conceptual ability, communication, problem-solving and team working.

 

[FoXtroT]

I just been through a recruitment drive for engineering professionals.

- 2 x grade 12 students
- 3 x final year students

This is for our Professional In Training Programme to develop Geotechnical Engineers. 7 years from grade 12 and 3 years for graduates. Unfortunately companies, including mine, have reduced their support for bursaries, learnerships etc. Times are hard.

The idea is to develop skills until a level of professional competency where a candidate is suitable for professional registration . Thereafter, we might offer them fulltime employment if we have space.

We never had one single drop out because a student is assigned a mentor, coach from 1st year right throughout their development.

This programme was developed by Anglo, DeBeers, Goldfields for engineering students in the 90's mainly focusing on HDSAs but we now apply it to every person.

Sounds very much like an apprenticeship. Something that is sorely neglected in this country.

 

[buka001]

I also graduated in Civil at UCT but the drop out rate was not near as bad. The probability of graduating once you get through the first year was high. Most mainstream students finished in 5 years and the Academic Support Program students also finished in 5 years.

Our program is to create top professionals who will be marketable for employment. Good marks are important for securing the interviews but successful candidates are hardly the top academics.

Its usually a combination of drive for results, willingness to learn, emotional stability, conceptual ability, communication, problem-solving and team working.

When did you graduate?

 

[Nicodeamus]

Sounds very much like an apprenticeship. Something that is sorely neglected in this country.

The Civil Engineering industry takes mentorship quite seriously. Europe has a good system of internships and the french has something special called an alternance, where you work 6 months then study for 6 months for around 5 years. Europe does lack mentorship in their careers though. In SA we do actually have this covered at the right company.

 

[Nicodeamus]

I also graduated in Civil at UCT but the drop out rate was not near as bad. The probability of graduating once you get through the first year was high. Most mainstream students finished in 5 years and the Academic Support Program students also finished in 5 years.

Our program is to create top professionals who will be marketable for employment. Good marks are important for securing the interviews but successful candidates are hardly the top academics.

Its usually a combination of drive for results, willingness to learn, emotional stability, conceptual ability, communication, problem-solving and team working.

I just reckon that the admission requirements should go up, then more students will pass, but less woll be allowed to get in.

I also finished in 5 years, student life at tuks just get’s you to distracted, but it all comes down to vasbyt at the end.

 

[Fro]

I think most dropouts fall into two categories:
1) They don't have the finances to continue
2) Middle class and above kids who are intelligent enough to do the work if they put their all in, but they're not mature enough - they're still playing.

I knew a lot of students whose studies were paid by their parents or merit-based bursaries who could have done a lot better if they tried their best. They weren't protesting for free education or breaking stuff.

I would like to see dropout percentages in 5-year age brackets; <=22, 23-27, etc.

 

[Knyro]

Same here.

Started engineering in 2000 with a class of 70ish. Of that around 15 graduated in 2003. We picked up a few people who started ahead who had failed etc.

The biggest drop was from 1st year to 2nd year.

Ah yes the old started with X and ended up with Y students by engineers.

You'll find this in any endeavor, uni classes (pretty much all of them), gym intake at the beginning of the year, number of white belts to brown belts in karate classes, beginners to advanced students in language classes etc.

People have many reasons for not sticking it out in their pursuits. Though we should be trying to minimise it, an exponential decrease is natural to a great extent.