Viceroy takes aim at Capitec

[konfab]

this is capitalism, have you forgotten the moral character of Jooste and his mistress

Would you take the financial advice of Jooste based on his behavior? Especially now that you know of it?

The likely answer is of course not.

MoneyWeb had their report on this guy out in the 18th of Jan, which means that everyone currently selling their stocks is doing it based on the opinion and beliefs of someone who has already demonstrated themselves to be a fraud.

And your dig at Capitalism is funny. There is an economic value to truth. This is why auditing companies exist, so shareholders can trust the people who are looking after their shares. And companies that break that trust get eviscerated.

 

[rietrot]

I thought you rebuked me earlier about a bank run in other thread :erm:.

Highly unlikely, but sometimes people do stupid things so it was a possibility. The shares already recovered for the most part so all the threats are gone now.

 

[Verde]

They are the second largest bank in South Africa :erm:

Don't know what metric you base that on, but in terms of deposits held (which is what the reserve bank is concerned about) they are small compared to the big 4.

 

[konfab]

Don't know what metric you base that on, but in terms of deposits held (which is what the reserve bank is concerned about) they are small compared to the big 4.

https://businesstech.co.za/news/banking/189420/capitec-is-now-the-second-biggest-bank-in-south-africa/
It is client numbers.

And that does matter to the guavament, especially considering the demographics of their base. They would be more likely to bail out Capitec than lets say Investec for example.

 

[Nom Chompsky]

I've had a number of such calls from #Capitec depositors. People should not discount the very real possibility that #Viceroy actions may be far more criminal in intent than the accounting conduct of the businesses which they're shorting ever has been.. #FollowTheMoney

https://twitter.com/Dick_Muller/status/958291808026546177

Just had a call from a very worried Capitec depositor. Wanting to know if there is any way she can get her money out. This is how a run on a bank starts. Viceroy's call for Capitec to be placed in curatorship is highly irresponsible - to say the least.

https://twitter.com/Richards_Karin/status/958265994392285184

Viceroy report is littered with "Viceroy believes" "assumption" "estimate" "appears to" "point towards" "must be" and so on. Not a piece of research credible enough to drive down a company's share price by 25%. #Capitec

https://twitter.com/Richards_Karin/status/958276146818375680

 

[Verde]

They would be more likely to bail out Capitec than lets say Investec for example.

I agree with that.

 

[LazyLion]

lol at all the Capitec Kinghts rushing to the defence!

 

[Pitbull]

Capitec never really appealed to me, it was ridiculously cheap but that's a bad motivator to move banks.

The amount of loans they try and offer me is ridiculous... My opinion of Capitec is that they will give anyone from wherever a loan just to be able to get interest. And the interest is insane. I don't like the way they do banking (personal opinion)

 

[Shi]

Are they just following on from the Steinhoff mess??
I read somewhere that steinhoff owns PSG and it seems that PSG owns capitec :erm:

PSG owns a big portion of Capitec. Steinhoff owns a small portion of PSG (they sold alot recently to release liquidity).

 

[FrankieK]

It appears that the South African investment public is not to familiar with these type of things. Short sellers, bear raids, squeezes are not something that happens a lot in SA. But the practice is well known in America and Europe. Citron, Muddy Waters and so on. These guys are very careful with their reports and it is highly unlikely that they would do something illegal.

These things work in reverse as well. Look at what Porsche did to Volkswagen short sellers in 2008.

 

[Shi]

A group of people calling themselves a research firm shorts shares from Capitec.
They release a report telling everyone what they already know about Capitec.
They make money when the share price goes down.

I am not worried about my bank account there.

That group equals 3 people :wtf:

 

[Deleted member 369928]

I moved my savings out.
I wasn't gonna until some dude in the office starting yelling and screaming he is going to lose all his money and frantically left the office.

Then i realized mass panic had begun and all bets are off. Once mass panic kicks in...

 

[rietrot]

I moved my savings out.
I wasn't gonna until some dude in the office starting yelling and screaming he is going to lose all his money and frantically left the office.

Then i realized mass panic had begun and all bets are off. Once mass panic kicks in...

Lol really?

 

[saturnz]

Would you take the financial advice of Jooste based on his behavior? Especially now that you know of it?

The likely answer is of course not.

MoneyWeb had their report on this guy out in the 18th of Jan, which means that everyone currently selling their stocks is doing it based on the opinion and beliefs of someone who has already demonstrated themselves to be a fraud.

And your dig at Capitalism is funny. There is an economic value to truth. This is why auditing companies exist, so shareholders can trust the people who are looking after their shares. And companies that break that trust get eviscerated.

yup we certainly trust those auditing companies, they certainly know what they are doing

 

[ToxicBunny]

I moved my savings out.
I wasn't gonna until some dude in the office starting yelling and screaming he is going to lose all his money and frantically left the office.

Then i realized mass panic had begun and all bets are off. Once mass panic kicks in...

Yeah Ok dude... fully....

 

[rietrot]

yup we certainly trust those auditing companies, they certainly know what they are doing

It's all balanced on a risk factor. If you trust the wrong people you will lose your money. That's why capitalism works.

 

[konfab]

yup we certainly trust those auditing companies, they certainly know what they are doing

Their only asset is honesty. If they loose it, they get nailed. Which means that all you have to do is trust that the people running them are greedy for long term profits. That is easier for me to trust than most other sources of information. The only thing that is more trustworthy IMO is widely cited research papers.

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

I wasn't gonna until some dude in the office starting yelling and screaming he is going to lose all his money and frantically left the office

:crylaugh:

the best response isn't to jump in the fire with him, it is a couple of swift PK's to exorcise his demons on the spot

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

They are the second largest bank in South Africa :erm:

Not only that, African Bank got bailed out not that long ago and Saambou's clients had their deposits guaranteed. Both infinitely smaller than Capitec.

 

[Eskimos]

The Viceroy guy admitted he coined it with stienhoff.

Regardless of what viceroy is (and they appear to be scalpers), the big question right now is are they right or not. SARB seems to think Capitec is fine. Capitec is claiming they are fine, but there are a few oddities:

1. Captic board members in common with Steinhof
2. Capitec's astonishingly low impairment ration for the type of business they are, after all poor people are still poor.
3. Capitec's almost too good to be true story

So I am kind of in a watch and wait situation with them. I suspect there is definitely something dodge going on at Capitec, especially in terms of how they are rolling their debt over, but the scale of it is the key. What the Viceroy guys did that was most interesting is look at the numbers and put down hard estimates on loans that should have already been written off. The thing about a lending company is they claim a lot of profits for money they have yet to receive. The size of the loan book, level of the interest rate they charge, and impairment percentage are pretty much all you should care about with them. If they are fudging the impairment ratio then its very serious. Its one of the most important financial figures for a bank.

Probably the most balanced and accurate comments I've seen.

lol at all the Capitec Kinghts rushing to the defence!

This has honestly surprised me more than the report. I'm not sure how accurate the Viceroy report is but Viceroy make serious allegations that if true would have large implications. The logical thing would be to evaluate the information and whether it makes sense (backed by facts) and if it is true. Instead people are targeting Viceroy and seem to be at pains to discredit them because they've written a report that is negative about a company that people like.