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Victron vs Axpert
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Hahaha.
The_Traveller
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When I get back from my trip I'll paste the copies of my emails ... Alternatively you can email them yourself and find out.
SilverNodashi
Expert Member
I guess a year from now hundreds of formites will come crying because their Axperts and other "one year warranty" inverters have all stopped working?
The_Traveller
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Maybe, maybe not.
Quite a few factors can influence failure. Not everyone loads the same type of appliance
I think it depends on how you look at it.
If buyers were all going off the grid and these units run 24/7/365, yes, then the lifespan of the whole installation is very important, but in most of SA cases, people just want to cater for load shedding and the odd other hours we go off.
For the last 3 odd years I used an elcheapo 300 watt modified sinewave inverter with a 100 a/h battery and it worked great for this purpose and the inverter will probably last a long time, who knows.
The problem is my PC sound system buzzes and the old CRT TV in the kitchen the sound also buzzes so I had to buy a Pure Sinewave Inverter.
After much hunting around for the cheapest junk I could find, I bought a Rotek NB800 which is an 800 watt job for R1899
Went down to our local hardware and bought a real smart box on wheels for R159, and the local Battery joint supplied me with 2 x 100 A/H batteries for R1499 each making it a total of around R5k.
Now as I say with my current requirements, this lot should last me about 30 years and I'll be dead and buried by then
The fan is quiet and only runs on load or when the charger is working.
Incidentally I open the inverter up, and all the components are TI (Texas Instruments) and the transformer was made in the USA, so go figure.
A link to the pics as it's a bit big to show here.
http://www.proasm.com/pics/inv0.jpg
The last pic are 2 traces with the back one being Eskom and front one being the inverter and as you can see, pretty good for the price.
I found by placing a 10 uF non polarized capacitor across the output of the inverter removed the ringing on the sinewave
The_Traveller
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I agree with you ProAsm, it all depends on what is being connected to the inverter and how long it provides the power.
I have just attended the Solar Show in Anaheim and have visited a few factories in China already (Prostar,Must,East Power,Sako,Voltronic etc.) to get enough information. So I don't talk from a point of ignorance, I do enough research.
Again, Axpert and InfiniSola are good inverters for what is being paid for them, so it's worth the risk.
I have just attended the Solar Show in Anaheim and have visited a few factories in China already (Prostar,Must,East Power,Sako,Voltronic etc.) to get enough information. So I don't talk from a point of ignorance, I do enough research.
Again, Axpert and InfiniSola are good inverters for what is being paid for them, so it's worth the risk.
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I was in contact with a Company that did performance tests on the 5kVA/4kW Axpert inverter.
Results were surprising, if not expected:
1. At around a 3800W load, the inverter started to struggle and quickly heated up.
2. At 40 deg C, the inverter's output fell to about 3000W
3. At 45 deg C it was 2800W.
4. At 50 deg C it was around 2500W
Thereafter the inverter simply overheated and output became erratic.
So yes, I suppose "you do get what you pay for" and I would rather stick to a Victron in this case, as their specifications have these test certificates available.
Axpert is good as a load shedding solution, but to go "off-grid or self consumption", rather stick to the more expensive and yes, better inverters like Victron, Schneider, SolarEdge, Chint Power, Imeon and so on.
My 2c...
Results were surprising, if not expected:
1. At around a 3800W load, the inverter started to struggle and quickly heated up.
2. At 40 deg C, the inverter's output fell to about 3000W
3. At 45 deg C it was 2800W.
4. At 50 deg C it was around 2500W
Thereafter the inverter simply overheated and output became erratic.
So yes, I suppose "you do get what you pay for" and I would rather stick to a Victron in this case, as their specifications have these test certificates available.
Axpert is good as a load shedding solution, but to go "off-grid or self consumption", rather stick to the more expensive and yes, better inverters like Victron, Schneider, SolarEdge, Chint Power, Imeon and so on.
My 2c...
SilverNodashi
Expert Member
I was in contact with a Company that did performance tests on the 5kVA/4kW Axpert inverter.
Results were surprising, if not expected:
1. At around a 3800W load, the inverter started to struggle and quickly heated up.
2. At 40 deg C, the inverter's output fell to about 3000W
3. At 45 deg C it was 2800W.
4. At 50 deg C it was around 2500W
Thereafter the inverter simply overheated and output became erratic.
So yes, I suppose "you do get what you pay for" and I would rather stick to a Victron in this case, as their specifications have these test certificates available.
Axpert is good as a load shedding solution, but to go "off-grid or self consumption", rather stick to the more expensive and yes, better inverters like Victron, Schneider, SolarEdge, Chint Power, Imeon and so on.
My 2c...
Can you supply quantifiable results of this test?
I do not have any test certificates, but neither does Axpert; why is that do you think?
The "more expensive" manufacturers all have test cases and certificates available.
Like I said in my post, it is "my 2c"; my opinion; use it, don't use it...
SilverNodashi
Expert Member
I do not have any test certificates, but neither does Axpert; why is that do you think?
The "more expensive" manufacturers all have test cases and certificates available.
Like I said in my post, it is "my 2c"; my opinion; use it, don't use it...
I'm not asking for a test certificate, but this makes me believe you work for Victron, and you're jealous of the cheaper products working very well and you post BS like this to make your product look better.
Without any evidence, it didn't happen. I could very easily say the same from any two products: "Car X isn't as good as Car Y, cause after extensive testing it overheated the whole time". Without definitive proof, it didn't happen.
And, testing one single unit of either brand also doesn't prove anything. Any product, from any manufacturer could have defects. I have installed, and replaced Victron inverters which packed up after a few months. Neighbor sent his Microcare back for replacement twice in same year.
Like I said in my post, it is "my 2c"; my opinion; use it, don't use it...
Considering the amount of data online that contradicts you, I'm going to go with, don't use it.
The Axpert inverter is also sold as Giant. Not only do they have a very good track record, they were certified in Australia for Solar use which is a big industry that is highly regulated.
Not to mention a local electrical contractors forum: http://www.theforumsa.co.za/forums/forumdisplay.php/5-Electrical-Contracting-Industry-Forum
Has a well known contractor and installer of inverters saying they tested the units to overload and at max load for extended periods of time and concluded it is an excellent product.
Create a blog with reproducible steps and methodology of testing. Else anything you say will be considered FUD. Claiming secret research is useless.
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Relax... :erm:
My posts started out as questions and then I gave my opinion; that's it.
And no, I do not work for Victron or any other manufacturer for that matter.
But I am tired of "installers/companies" selling BS "off-grid" solutions consisting of one 4kW Inverter (Axpert or whatever it is branded as), 6 x 300W Panels and one 300Ah battery bank.
Unless the potential customer has solar geysers, gas stove andboven, no hairdryer, no toaster, no electric kettle, a very small microwave oven, solar pool pump, all LED lighting, LED TV, A-Rated fridge, A-Rated washing machine, and so on, there is no way that this system can handle going off-grid.
Hence my questions about these "cheap" inverters, as the supplier I contacted informed me about the technical limitations of this inverter.
I suppose they are not hybrid inverters and if they were, they would also have been more "expensive".
So peace brother...
I also accept your comment on "secret" testing, as I am not at liberty to divulge the name of the company that did the tests; so you are correct with your statements and I apologize.
I could rather have started a thread with this "concern" of mine, rather than taking out the inverter.
itareanlnotani
Executive Member
Ironically, my smaller setup is pretty much that in Noordhoek.
6 x 300W panels
3KW Multiplus with a FM80
24v@ 220Ah
Gas oven. LED lighting. Solar Geyser. A++ Rated Fridge (640W / day). Laptop + NAS. No tv, although I may bring one from my other house at some point. My 40" 4k set there is only 60W/hr though, so won't be an issue.
No problem overnight, and still have plenty of power in battery bank after evenings usage. Recharges bank completely by 9am so far (was away for 6 months over winter, and it ran fine, albeit with just the fridge).
I may stick up more panels for next winter, as I have more equipment running now.
Batteries will soon be replaced with LFP to allow for deeper usage, but I'll keep roughly the same amount of Amps available (25.2V@180A). Currently doing less than 30-40% DoD overnight, so still fine on the LA for now.
Running washing machine in daytime isn't an issue - I actually did a load today at 6pm, and was still generating more from the panels than the machine was using.
So yeah, perfectly doable in a small household.
No need to apologize, I'm just stating the facts as I see them. The issue is that a lot of other people have tested these units extensively.
So if you take all the people who produce their results and say exactly how they did it and it shows it is working perfectly.
Then someone else claims something completely different.
1 person VS many different sources saying something else.
What is there to lose by publishing results that show something different.
If it is reproducible I'd be willing to give it a go.
I don't mind calling a spade a spade. I think the product is well made for its price class.
The efficiency is not as good as units that cost double the price but it is decent enough for load shedding imo.
In Australia a lot of the guys swear by them for off the grid but I would probably get an SMA unit if I had to go off grid.
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