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Virgin Galactic Spaceship Two has crashed, possible casualties
- Thread starter LazyLion
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BandwidthAddict
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Agree. Nooooooooooo!
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
VIRGIN GALACTIC'S SPACESHIPTWO SUFFERS 'IN-FLIGHT ANOMALY'
Virgin Galactic's SpaceShipTwo craft suffered an "anomaly" during a test flight over California on Friday, the commercial space flight operator announced on its Twitter feed.
The craft, which is still in its test phase and which normally carries two pilots, had been carried aloft on a bigger aircraft known as WhiteKnightTwo and then released for a test of its rocket engine.
The fate of the crew was not immediately known.
"SpaceShipTwo has experienced an in-flight anomaly. Additional info and statement forthcoming," it said, giving no further details.
WhiteKnightTwo had taken off normally from California's Mojave desert, and been released normally, in what was the 35th such flight.
"SpaceShipTwo has been released by WhiteKnightTwo, and is now flying freely," the firm wrote in a blow-by-blow account of the flight, adding: "Ignition! SpaceShipTwo is flying under rocket power again."
The next tweet announced the "anomaly."
Source : Sapa-AFP /kd
Date : 31 Oct 2014 20:24
Virgin Galactic's SpaceShipTwo craft suffered an "anomaly" during a test flight over California on Friday, the commercial space flight operator announced on its Twitter feed.
The craft, which is still in its test phase and which normally carries two pilots, had been carried aloft on a bigger aircraft known as WhiteKnightTwo and then released for a test of its rocket engine.
The fate of the crew was not immediately known.
"SpaceShipTwo has experienced an in-flight anomaly. Additional info and statement forthcoming," it said, giving no further details.
WhiteKnightTwo had taken off normally from California's Mojave desert, and been released normally, in what was the 35th such flight.
"SpaceShipTwo has been released by WhiteKnightTwo, and is now flying freely," the firm wrote in a blow-by-blow account of the flight, adding: "Ignition! SpaceShipTwo is flying under rocket power again."
The next tweet announced the "anomaly."
Source : Sapa-AFP /kd
Date : 31 Oct 2014 20:24
DrJohnZoidberg
Honorary Master
upup
Executive Member
We talk about this air travel this morning and was wondering if it was operational already.
So 2 rockets down this week.
So 2 rockets down this week.
Dave
Honorary Master
From the tone of most stories (and tweets) offering condolences to both families it's seeming more like both pilots have died.
RIP
RIP
The_Assimilator
Executive Member
This was unfortunately predictable considering the issues they've had with the engine. It certainly means that Virgin Galactic won't be taking paying passengers anywhere in 2015.
http://gizmodo.com/virgin-galactic-experiences-first-major-accident-possi-1653360863
http://gizmodo.com/virgin-galactic-experiences-first-major-accident-possi-1653360863
Joël Glenn Brenner said:
Grant
Honorary Master
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
VIRGIN 'IGNORED' SPACE SAFETY WARNINGS: EXPERT
A rocket science safety expert on Sunday said Virgin Galactic "ignored" safety warnings in the years leading up to the deadly crash of its spacecraft in California, as investigators hunted for clues to accident's cause.
Carolynne Campbell, a rocket propulsion expert with the Netherlands-based International Association for the Advancement of Space Safety, said she could not speculate on the cause of Friday's crash without "all the data."
However, she said multiple warnings had been issued to Virgin since 2007, when three engineers died testing a rocket on the ground.
"Based on the work we've done, including me writing a paper on the handling of nitrous oxide, we were concerned about what was going on at Virgin Galactic," she told AFP.
"I sent copies of the paper to various people at Virgin Galactic in 2009, and they were ignored," she said.
Campbell said she outlined concerns to Virgin Galactic in a subsequent telephone conversation, but her warning again went unheeded.
"I warned them... that the rocket motor was potentially dangerous," she said.
Campbell's warnings related to nitrous oxide, which has been used as a fuel component in previous test flights.
Friday's flight was reportedly the first using a new kind of fuel derived from nylon plastic fuel grains, but it was not clear whether nitrous oxide was also involved.
A team of investigators from the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) has been deployed to the Mojave Desert to probe Friday's accident, which left pilot Michael Alsbury dead and and co-pilot Pete Siebold seriously injured.
British tycoon Richard Branson told reporters in Mojave on Saturday safety had always been Virgin's paramount concern.
"Safety has always been our number one priority," Branson said, adding that the company would not "push on blindly" with its ambitious space program until the causes of the accident had been determined.
Branson, however, took aim at early speculation of the causes of the crash, which had focused on the new rocket fuel.
"To be honest, I find it slightly irresponsible that people who know nothing about what they're saying can be saying things before the NTSB makes their comments," he said.
Tom Bower, who wrote an unauthorized biography of Branson, told BBC radio on Saturday several Virgin Galactic engineers had left the company in recent years over safety concerns in the wake of the deadly 2007 accident.
"All the engineers in California working on the project I've spoken to said it was very dangerous," Bower said.
Witnesses to Friday's crash say there was no obvious sign of an explosion before Virgin's suborbital SpaceShipTwo broke apart and hurtled to earth shortly after it had detached from a mothership at an altitude of around 45,000 feet (13,700 meters).
The crash was the second disaster to rock the private space industry in the space of a few days, after an Antares rocket carrying supplies to the International Space Station exploded after take-off in Virginia in Tuesday.
Experts say the accident will delay the advent of commercial space tourism by several years.
Virgin Galactic had hoped to start ferrying wealthy customers to the edge of space in 2015, charging $250,000 per person for a ticket on the company's six-seater vehicle.
NTSB acting chairman Christopher Hart said on-site investigations would last up to a week but the full probe piecing together facts and analysis "will be probably 12 months or so."
Wreckage from the crash was strewn over an five miles (eight kilometers) long, Hart said.
Investigators hoped to yield clues to the causes of the crash from the reams of telemetry data and video footage expected to be available, Hart said.
Source : Sapa-AFP /mm
Date : 02 Nov 2014 18:18
A rocket science safety expert on Sunday said Virgin Galactic "ignored" safety warnings in the years leading up to the deadly crash of its spacecraft in California, as investigators hunted for clues to accident's cause.
Carolynne Campbell, a rocket propulsion expert with the Netherlands-based International Association for the Advancement of Space Safety, said she could not speculate on the cause of Friday's crash without "all the data."
However, she said multiple warnings had been issued to Virgin since 2007, when three engineers died testing a rocket on the ground.
"Based on the work we've done, including me writing a paper on the handling of nitrous oxide, we were concerned about what was going on at Virgin Galactic," she told AFP.
"I sent copies of the paper to various people at Virgin Galactic in 2009, and they were ignored," she said.
Campbell said she outlined concerns to Virgin Galactic in a subsequent telephone conversation, but her warning again went unheeded.
"I warned them... that the rocket motor was potentially dangerous," she said.
Campbell's warnings related to nitrous oxide, which has been used as a fuel component in previous test flights.
Friday's flight was reportedly the first using a new kind of fuel derived from nylon plastic fuel grains, but it was not clear whether nitrous oxide was also involved.
A team of investigators from the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) has been deployed to the Mojave Desert to probe Friday's accident, which left pilot Michael Alsbury dead and and co-pilot Pete Siebold seriously injured.
British tycoon Richard Branson told reporters in Mojave on Saturday safety had always been Virgin's paramount concern.
"Safety has always been our number one priority," Branson said, adding that the company would not "push on blindly" with its ambitious space program until the causes of the accident had been determined.
Branson, however, took aim at early speculation of the causes of the crash, which had focused on the new rocket fuel.
"To be honest, I find it slightly irresponsible that people who know nothing about what they're saying can be saying things before the NTSB makes their comments," he said.
Tom Bower, who wrote an unauthorized biography of Branson, told BBC radio on Saturday several Virgin Galactic engineers had left the company in recent years over safety concerns in the wake of the deadly 2007 accident.
"All the engineers in California working on the project I've spoken to said it was very dangerous," Bower said.
Witnesses to Friday's crash say there was no obvious sign of an explosion before Virgin's suborbital SpaceShipTwo broke apart and hurtled to earth shortly after it had detached from a mothership at an altitude of around 45,000 feet (13,700 meters).
The crash was the second disaster to rock the private space industry in the space of a few days, after an Antares rocket carrying supplies to the International Space Station exploded after take-off in Virginia in Tuesday.
Experts say the accident will delay the advent of commercial space tourism by several years.
Virgin Galactic had hoped to start ferrying wealthy customers to the edge of space in 2015, charging $250,000 per person for a ticket on the company's six-seater vehicle.
NTSB acting chairman Christopher Hart said on-site investigations would last up to a week but the full probe piecing together facts and analysis "will be probably 12 months or so."
Wreckage from the crash was strewn over an five miles (eight kilometers) long, Hart said.
Investigators hoped to yield clues to the causes of the crash from the reams of telemetry data and video footage expected to be available, Hart said.
Source : Sapa-AFP /mm
Date : 02 Nov 2014 18:18
grok
Honorary Master
Branson should get Musk involved with the development.
bekdik
Honorary Master
Virgin 'spaceship' pilot 'UNLOCKED tailbooms' going through SOUND BARRIER
The Virgin Galactic "spaceship" rocketplane which broke up in mid-air during a flight test on Friday deployed its unique "feather" atmospheric re-entry system far earlier than planned, according to federal investigators.
Pilot error?
The Virgin Galactic "spaceship" rocketplane which broke up in mid-air during a flight test on Friday deployed its unique "feather" atmospheric re-entry system far earlier than planned, according to federal investigators.
Pilot error?
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
VIRGIN GALACTIC LOOKS TO RESUME TESTS IN 2015
by Susan Montoya Bryan
The head of the space tourism company that suffered a tragic setback when its experimental rocket ship broke apart over the California desert says test flights could resume as early as next summer.
Virgin Galactic CEO George Whitesides told The Associated Press on Wednesday that work is underway at the company's shop in the Mojave Desert to finish a second spacecraft.
It will replace the first SpaceShipTwo, which was destroyed last week when it disintegrated during a test flight, killing one pilot and seriously injuring another.
Whitesides says the new ship's frame is complete, but critical flight control systems, wiring and windows still need to be installed. He says the work has become a form of therapy for employees as they try to focus on something constructive in the wake of the accident.
Source : Sapa-AP /dm
Date : 06 Nov 2014 01:36
by Susan Montoya Bryan
The head of the space tourism company that suffered a tragic setback when its experimental rocket ship broke apart over the California desert says test flights could resume as early as next summer.
Virgin Galactic CEO George Whitesides told The Associated Press on Wednesday that work is underway at the company's shop in the Mojave Desert to finish a second spacecraft.
It will replace the first SpaceShipTwo, which was destroyed last week when it disintegrated during a test flight, killing one pilot and seriously injuring another.
Whitesides says the new ship's frame is complete, but critical flight control systems, wiring and windows still need to be installed. He says the work has become a form of therapy for employees as they try to focus on something constructive in the wake of the accident.
Source : Sapa-AP /dm
Date : 06 Nov 2014 01:36
Compton_effect
Honorary Master
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- 1,102
So - pilot or software error? (Now that is a IT consequence I never hope to experience - someone dying because of my mistake.)
Either way - the designers are going to have a busy time.
Either way - the designers are going to have a busy time.
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
PILOT'S SURVIVAL HAILED AS MIRACLE, BUT NOT UNIQUE
As the doomed flight rocketed past the speed of sound some 8 miles (13 kilometers) high and then shattered seconds later, the odds of survival were slim. Remarkably, as sections of the cockpit, fuselage, a wing and motor of the SpaceShipTwo rained down over the Mojave Desert in California and pieces of the lightweight craft tiny enough to travel 35 miles (56 kilometers) were picked up by the winds, a single parachute was seen in the sky.
Pilot Peter Siebold was alive and drifting to safety.
"It's no minor miracle that he did survive and survive in relatively good shape," Virgin Galactic chief executive George Whitesides said this week.
How Siebold, 43, survived the fall from extreme altitude while co-pilot Mike Alsbury, 39, perished a week ago is not yet clear, but Siebold is not the first to live through such a harrowing ordeal.
Bill Weaver has been telling a similar story for decades.
The former Lockheed test pilot was torn from the seat of an SR-71 Blackbird at 78,800 feet (24,000 meters) above New Mexico on Jan. 25, 1966. The plane was going faster than 2,400 mph (3,900 kph) - more than triple the speed of sound.
As Weaver banked into a turn, a malfunction caused one engine to lose thrust. He quickly lost control of the jet and knew he was in trouble as the plane began to pitch and break up. He didn't have time to be scared.
"I knew we were going to just be along for the ride," he said.
Weaver tried to radio to the reconnaissance and navigations officer in the back seat that there was no way to safely bail out at that altitude and speed, so they should stick with the plane and eject when it got lower. But the severe gravitational forces made his speech unintelligible and then he blacked out.
The whole event to that point took two to three seconds.
When Weaver regained consciousness, his first thought was that he was dreaming. With the face plate on his helmet iced over from temperatures as cold as minus 55 Fahrenheit (-48.33 Celsius), he could only see a hazy white light and in a detached sense of euphoria, he thought he was dead. He was relieved when he realized he was alive and plunging toward Earth.
"I had no idea how I got out of the airplane," he said. "I had no idea how long I had been free falling. Had no idea how high I was or low I was."
How Siebold got out of SpaceShipTwo is also unknown, according to National Transportation Safety Board Acting Chairman Christopher Hart, who said the pilot hadn't been interviewed because he's recovering from major injuries.
Initial findings show the Virgin Galactic plane designed to take tourists for $250,000 joyrides beyond the edge of Earth's atmosphere, broke apart after the craft's re-entry braking system prematurely activated, Hart said.
Alsbury had unlocked the system, known as the feathering system, earlier than called for. A second lever must be moved to engage the system, but it deployed on its own for some unknown reason. The craft broke up a few seconds later.
SpaceShipTwo did not have ejection seats, but there was an evacuation procedure.
Typically, the pilot would stay with the controls and the co-pilot would depressurize the cabin and then they would both unbuckle and bail out with their parachutes, said Brian Binnie, a former test pilot for Scaled Composites, which designed and built the craft for Virgin.
But an aircraft that violently tears apart around you isn't something you prepare for.
"All bets are off. Now you're back to DNA. What do you think is your next best move? If you've been knocked out or unconscious you don't have a next best move," said Binnie, who flew five times in the spaceship and knew the pilots. "Peter, whatever he did, in my mind, he had a patron saint of a particular strength or influence."
Weaver, 85, is understated as he speaks of the event he called "kind of alarming."
He attributes his survival to a miracle and also the protection his pressurized suit provided as he was ripped from his ejection seat. The suit kept his blood from boiling under the extreme pressure of the altitude, provided necessary oxygen and some degree of warmth to weather the nearly 15 mile-high (24 kilometers) fall.
Siebold and Alsbury didn't have pressurized suits, Whitesides said, though they did have extra oxygen. Whitesides said he hadn't spoken with Siebold yet.
As Weaver fell, he managed to open the iced-up face plate on his helmet to see where he was. At that point, his parachute chute deployed automatically and he was thrilled to see the canopy of his colleague, Jim Zwayer.
When he landed in the desert largely unscathed, however, he learned that Zwayer was dead. His neck had snapped when the plane ripped apart.
Zwayer was one of many friends and colleagues Weaver lost during decades in the dangerous business. The evolution of air safety has often been attributed to the many casualties in the field.
Source : Sapa-AP /nsm
Date : 07 Nov 2014 19:52
As the doomed flight rocketed past the speed of sound some 8 miles (13 kilometers) high and then shattered seconds later, the odds of survival were slim. Remarkably, as sections of the cockpit, fuselage, a wing and motor of the SpaceShipTwo rained down over the Mojave Desert in California and pieces of the lightweight craft tiny enough to travel 35 miles (56 kilometers) were picked up by the winds, a single parachute was seen in the sky.
Pilot Peter Siebold was alive and drifting to safety.
"It's no minor miracle that he did survive and survive in relatively good shape," Virgin Galactic chief executive George Whitesides said this week.
How Siebold, 43, survived the fall from extreme altitude while co-pilot Mike Alsbury, 39, perished a week ago is not yet clear, but Siebold is not the first to live through such a harrowing ordeal.
Bill Weaver has been telling a similar story for decades.
The former Lockheed test pilot was torn from the seat of an SR-71 Blackbird at 78,800 feet (24,000 meters) above New Mexico on Jan. 25, 1966. The plane was going faster than 2,400 mph (3,900 kph) - more than triple the speed of sound.
As Weaver banked into a turn, a malfunction caused one engine to lose thrust. He quickly lost control of the jet and knew he was in trouble as the plane began to pitch and break up. He didn't have time to be scared.
"I knew we were going to just be along for the ride," he said.
Weaver tried to radio to the reconnaissance and navigations officer in the back seat that there was no way to safely bail out at that altitude and speed, so they should stick with the plane and eject when it got lower. But the severe gravitational forces made his speech unintelligible and then he blacked out.
The whole event to that point took two to three seconds.
When Weaver regained consciousness, his first thought was that he was dreaming. With the face plate on his helmet iced over from temperatures as cold as minus 55 Fahrenheit (-48.33 Celsius), he could only see a hazy white light and in a detached sense of euphoria, he thought he was dead. He was relieved when he realized he was alive and plunging toward Earth.
"I had no idea how I got out of the airplane," he said. "I had no idea how long I had been free falling. Had no idea how high I was or low I was."
How Siebold got out of SpaceShipTwo is also unknown, according to National Transportation Safety Board Acting Chairman Christopher Hart, who said the pilot hadn't been interviewed because he's recovering from major injuries.
Initial findings show the Virgin Galactic plane designed to take tourists for $250,000 joyrides beyond the edge of Earth's atmosphere, broke apart after the craft's re-entry braking system prematurely activated, Hart said.
Alsbury had unlocked the system, known as the feathering system, earlier than called for. A second lever must be moved to engage the system, but it deployed on its own for some unknown reason. The craft broke up a few seconds later.
SpaceShipTwo did not have ejection seats, but there was an evacuation procedure.
Typically, the pilot would stay with the controls and the co-pilot would depressurize the cabin and then they would both unbuckle and bail out with their parachutes, said Brian Binnie, a former test pilot for Scaled Composites, which designed and built the craft for Virgin.
But an aircraft that violently tears apart around you isn't something you prepare for.
"All bets are off. Now you're back to DNA. What do you think is your next best move? If you've been knocked out or unconscious you don't have a next best move," said Binnie, who flew five times in the spaceship and knew the pilots. "Peter, whatever he did, in my mind, he had a patron saint of a particular strength or influence."
Weaver, 85, is understated as he speaks of the event he called "kind of alarming."
He attributes his survival to a miracle and also the protection his pressurized suit provided as he was ripped from his ejection seat. The suit kept his blood from boiling under the extreme pressure of the altitude, provided necessary oxygen and some degree of warmth to weather the nearly 15 mile-high (24 kilometers) fall.
Siebold and Alsbury didn't have pressurized suits, Whitesides said, though they did have extra oxygen. Whitesides said he hadn't spoken with Siebold yet.
As Weaver fell, he managed to open the iced-up face plate on his helmet to see where he was. At that point, his parachute chute deployed automatically and he was thrilled to see the canopy of his colleague, Jim Zwayer.
When he landed in the desert largely unscathed, however, he learned that Zwayer was dead. His neck had snapped when the plane ripped apart.
Zwayer was one of many friends and colleagues Weaver lost during decades in the dangerous business. The evolution of air safety has often been attributed to the many casualties in the field.
Source : Sapa-AP /nsm
Date : 07 Nov 2014 19:52
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
SPACE PILOT 'UNBUCKLED' HIMSELF AS CRAFT SPLIT APART
The surviving pilot of the Virgin Galactic spaceship that crashed last month unbuckled himself and was thrown free from the disintegrating craft, investigators said Wednesday.
Peter Siebold told them he did not know that his co-pilot had prematurely unlocked a key system on the spaceship, which broke up over California's Mojave Desert on October 31.
The co-pilot, Michael Alsbury, died in the accident shortly after mistakenly unlocking a so-called "feathering" system designed to slow the aircraft during re-entry into the Earth's atmosphere.
The SpaceShipTwo broke up a few seconds after being dropped from its mothership, the WhiteKnightTwo, which had carried it up to an altitude of about 45,000 feet (13,700 meters).
"According to the pilot, he was unaware that the feather system had been unlocked early by the co-pilot," the National Transportation Safety Board said in an update on its investigation.
The NTSB -- which interviewed the injured pilot last Friday -- added that "his description of the vehicle motion was consistent with other data sources in the investigation.
"He stated that he was extracted from the vehicle as a result of the break-up sequence and unbuckled from his seat at some point before the parachute deployed automatically."
There was a two-stage system to deploy the feathering system: first a lock-unlock lever has to be released, and then the system itself deployed.
The first step should not occur until the craft was above Mach 1.4, but investigators found it was unlocked too early, at a speed of above approximately Mach 1.0.
The accident was a serious blow to Virgin chief Richard Branson's dream of taking wealthy passengers up to the edge of space as tourists, and is likely to delay the program significantly.
But last week a company spokeswoman said Virgin Galactic could resume test flights with a new spaceship within six months. The NTSB probe is expected to last up to a year or more.
"It's possible that test flights for the next spaceship could begin within six months, before the investigation is expected to conclude," the Virgin spokeswoman told AFP.
New test flights would take place in a second SpaceShipTwo, which is 65 percent complete, the company said Tuesday.
Hundreds of VIPs, including Leonardo DiCaprio and Demi Moore, are said to have put down a $250,000 (200,000 euro) deposit on a space flight.
Virgin Galactic said there was a "small percentage requesting refunds... due to personal circumstances".
Branson, who rushed to the Mojave Desert within hours of the crash, has vowed to press on with his dream.
"While this has been a tragic setback, we are moving forward and will do so deliberately and with determination," his company said.
"We owe it to all of those who have risked and given so much to stay the course and deliver on the promise of creating the first commercial spaceline."
The crash was the second disaster to rock the private sector space industry in the same week.
An Antares rocket carrying supplies to the International Space Station exploded after takeoff in Virginia a few days previously.
Source : Sapa-AFP /kd
Date : 12 Nov 2014 21:55
The surviving pilot of the Virgin Galactic spaceship that crashed last month unbuckled himself and was thrown free from the disintegrating craft, investigators said Wednesday.
Peter Siebold told them he did not know that his co-pilot had prematurely unlocked a key system on the spaceship, which broke up over California's Mojave Desert on October 31.
The co-pilot, Michael Alsbury, died in the accident shortly after mistakenly unlocking a so-called "feathering" system designed to slow the aircraft during re-entry into the Earth's atmosphere.
The SpaceShipTwo broke up a few seconds after being dropped from its mothership, the WhiteKnightTwo, which had carried it up to an altitude of about 45,000 feet (13,700 meters).
"According to the pilot, he was unaware that the feather system had been unlocked early by the co-pilot," the National Transportation Safety Board said in an update on its investigation.
The NTSB -- which interviewed the injured pilot last Friday -- added that "his description of the vehicle motion was consistent with other data sources in the investigation.
"He stated that he was extracted from the vehicle as a result of the break-up sequence and unbuckled from his seat at some point before the parachute deployed automatically."
There was a two-stage system to deploy the feathering system: first a lock-unlock lever has to be released, and then the system itself deployed.
The first step should not occur until the craft was above Mach 1.4, but investigators found it was unlocked too early, at a speed of above approximately Mach 1.0.
The accident was a serious blow to Virgin chief Richard Branson's dream of taking wealthy passengers up to the edge of space as tourists, and is likely to delay the program significantly.
But last week a company spokeswoman said Virgin Galactic could resume test flights with a new spaceship within six months. The NTSB probe is expected to last up to a year or more.
"It's possible that test flights for the next spaceship could begin within six months, before the investigation is expected to conclude," the Virgin spokeswoman told AFP.
New test flights would take place in a second SpaceShipTwo, which is 65 percent complete, the company said Tuesday.
Hundreds of VIPs, including Leonardo DiCaprio and Demi Moore, are said to have put down a $250,000 (200,000 euro) deposit on a space flight.
Virgin Galactic said there was a "small percentage requesting refunds... due to personal circumstances".
Branson, who rushed to the Mojave Desert within hours of the crash, has vowed to press on with his dream.
"While this has been a tragic setback, we are moving forward and will do so deliberately and with determination," his company said.
"We owe it to all of those who have risked and given so much to stay the course and deliver on the promise of creating the first commercial spaceline."
The crash was the second disaster to rock the private sector space industry in the same week.
An Antares rocket carrying supplies to the International Space Station exploded after takeoff in Virginia a few days previously.
Source : Sapa-AFP /kd
Date : 12 Nov 2014 21:55