VoIP issues

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Just as I may or may not tell 100 to 200 people over the next week that they should avoid Vodacom 3G, so Vodacom may or may not decide to charge more than 10 times more for the thing I really got 3G for in the 1st place.

I reserve that right, so do they. Cold war.

VMS
 
A few years ago I read an article about porn detection. Yes you read correctly. Image recognition software that could scan a picture and recognise things like a nipple etc... So instead of blocking all pictures you could invest in wobbly software that would alert the supervisor of incoming or outgoing porn. Most companies just started to block all pictures and virus containing entities like .exe files. But people found ways around it. Suddenly you would get an email with a PDF (with porn). You could email just about anything if you Zipped it with a password. Some guys would download manuals and service packs to the order of hundreds of MBs. So now the porn detection software must be able to open and decypher all known (and unknown formats) for it to work. In reality many people don't need so many attachments and send a lot of text only emails. The company could have had a policy that all emails with attachments would be routed to a public PC.

But people have a tendency to use what is available. Here is an old joke... The king was on his way to the crusades. He called his best friend and told him:"Here my friend is the key to my lovely wife's chastity belt. If I don't return in 4 years time you are to open the lock and free my wife." Lots of heartfelt emotions the two hugged and the king was off. About half and hour later the king heard a loud noise and saw the dust cloud behind him coming closer. The king saw it was his friend and as he came closer he said:"O' king, my friend, you have given me the wrong key"......

Isn't this what Vody and MTN are trying to do? Here is the key to the kingdom. Mobile internet that can give you VoIP connection for about 29 hours solid (international) for R600 per month. That is about R0.34 per minute international and it is prepaid. So what are we doing? We are trying that key. Vodacom is now looking the other way. But if they decide to they will hit us at R10/mb. MTN is more aggresive with contract cancellation and backdating all VoIP at R25/mb.

So king MTN gives you the key but warns you that if caught he will have your tottie amputated with immediate effect and kill a family member for each offence found.

King Vodacom says that he will look the other way for now but when he decides so, that you may continue, but at the expense of your first born and the first born children of the rest of your family as long as you use the service. Tottie will stay intact :-)


Maybe Telkom, Vodacom, MTN and Cell-C should start realizing that the world is changing. The point to point voice call is going out of date. Infact in many NGN situations the endpoint device might not and probably won't not be theirs to control, and why should they get to charge for it? They are getting in the market of supplying an information pipe. I am already spending so much more per month on prepaying for my 1GB. They are now putting a sticker on voice and trying to cover their 'lost' income.

What if someone built a high speed train parallel to a toll road. Must the users of the train pay a penalty to the toll road company because it is losing business? On another line... If DHL uses the N1 to transport packages must I now pay DHL their tariffs for delivering my own package using the N1? My old example: Must I now pay the host of the open party per tot for my own liquor consumed at the party?

But why stop at VoIP? Why don't they put a surcharge on porn? We all know that these poor people are exploited and what would be better than for Telkom, Vodacom, MTN and Cell-C (from now known as TVMC) to pick up on porn downloads and 'klap' you R5 per MB and donate R4 of that to some AIDS infested prostitute charity organization. If an MP3 download is detected a R10/MB is charged and largely donated to Kwaito music development. If an email contains a swearword a R1 donation is made to the new Pope for their moral upliftment program.

Just think about the risk for a moment. Everytime you click you might open content that can be seen as R1 to R25/MB. But even worse, someone is watching what you are doing.

I just see this charging for VoIP as the start of very bad things to happen.

###############
On a similar note....

I am currently redesigning some of my equipment to work without cables, novel idea, ne'? In the line of business that I am in the client has to spend a truck load for the equipment. The central control box looks like hell with all the connectors. They have to spend on average R30 000 to R40 000 just on cabling on top of all the equipment costs. To move a node costs thousands. Then lightning strikes and kills off anything the protection circuits cannot handle.

Going wireless is an initial investment, but worth it when you look at what you are reducing. In my case my big box. Gone are the 64 connectors on the big box, that usually takes up a 24U rackmount cabinet, plus UPS and patch panels. This is now replaced with a tiny little thing that plugs into the PC's USB port containing 4 chips (including power supply). We now have problems convincing the client that it is still an expensive system( but in reality it is not). Installation is a matter of getting power to the node. In many cases a battery has to be swapped every month.

The one thing I have learnt from this project is the cost of pulling in and terminating a cable (and especially moving it afterwards). Going RF has its problems but once the infrastructure is in the problem now falls onto the customer. Do I bitch and moan because GPRS does not want to work in my bedroom but 10 meters away in my lab it does? Yes, but I fix it myself. Telkom does not send out an incompetant techy (that is another funny story I don't want to go into detail, suffice to say he only had cable, connector boxes and a lot of cable nails) to bang a cable in 10 meters away and test it. No I just move around. Sure, the cellphone guys still have many other problems involving cable, microwave and complex exchanges but once they are done for an area they are done. Just looking at the area that I moved into I can already see the level of effort remaining for cable and RF. The RF is in and working (except for my 3G). Telkom trunks are in but they still have to install each and every line into each house, and additional connections. I can understand that they will want to charge for every call made. There is another company involved sell internet. They change R2000 for the connection and you only get 128kb/s connection from the central server (which is connected to a fast diginet or similr line)

Years ago I worked for a company that made PaBXs. Complex buggers. But going IP based on RF has numerous advantages. No cables and a single box figures out where the packet goes. I can build you a router that will fit in your hand. No more big boxes and lots of cable.

RF does have many drawbacks. Signal quality/strength and usage. I operate mainly in the ISM bands and 2.4GHz LAN. These can get congested. You spend more time coding bursts and packet framing than the actual application itself. But yet it gets easier to do and costs less.

Point is that RF is pretty complex but doing this data thing is exacly that, doing data. If I use up my 1GB per month then it is too bad, have to pay more. They don't have to maintain a land line just for me. To handle voice == handling data.

In my current project I will effectively take the cost down by 80%. In 2 years time I will have made a new mark in the price level of that product and will battle to get back up there again (as well as for my competition). The same I think has happened for wireless internet. They are trying to keep doors open. Lodge a tariff at Icasa because they are scared that after they lower it they cannot get it back up again. But at the same time the way we are doing things have changed. NGN (new generation networks) will change the way we think and do business. No longer do you just call someone. You will communicate from one device to another device (e.g. PDA to landline). The data will probably be IP based and mostly wireless. Maybe TMVC has made projections and know that VoIP is going to be the next big thing? BUT they cannot make it happen without getting the infrastructure in place. And we are paying for it and alpha testing it every month. Once the networks are in place and 3G works on 5 bars everywhere they will hit us with R25/MB.

I am almost sure we are being used. Like being invited over early for a party while the host is still cutting the grass and getting the food ready. We are now enjoying some of the food but helping to pick up the grass. The time will come when things will change again (like the oil price going down and the petrol price up).

All I want from these guys is to make a decision. Let all data through untouched or being billed through the nose for content.

End of part 1
 
I will leave you with a few thoughts...
* What if Vodacom and MTN has made a few assumptions about usage. The 1GB limit is much like a gym contract for most people, you have it but rarely go. Only the die hard guys use their limit but you don't really worry about them. So they figure that the majority of 1GB clients will only use a fraction of that and they will be able to save on their outgoing costs as well, i.e. selling 1Terabytes worth of contracts and only buying 500 GB of outgoing BW.
* If people suddenly catches onto VoIP they will quickly use up their 1GB cap. V&M will have honoured their side but lose on the expected non use.
* The network cannot really handle this type of data. If one tower can only handle 10 connections and there are 20 people trying to do VoIP then something will give. For email and porn surfers this is OK as a short break in download does not really hamper the total experience of internet.

BUT what if?
* The die hard VoIP users could use up their BW quicker, say like me chatting to the USA and Australia either very early or very late( offpeak).
* Because of this V&M will have a better picture of top usage and compensate for that.
* More people will see the benefits of 3G and get contracts and end up like gym contracts (i.e. rarely used).

I deal with a lot of people on a daily basis. The other day I spoke to an engineer who told me he likes 3G a lot but will not get it because of the hidden cost risks. His attitude was that he would like to run his office from it. So he has a Telkom line and typically reaches R600 per month. My question, to Vodacom and MTN, is how many people like him are out there?

The problem they are facing is that if they come out with a real payment plan then many people won't get 3G.... and those who got it won't renew. So I immediately KNOW I DON'T WANT MTN, because they stated it so nicely in their agreement details. Vodacom is still on a may or may not state that will eventually cause many may or may not clients.

BTW. Currently I am only doing about 100MB VoIP per month. That is not much. I am, however, a bit tense if this portion is suddenly going to cost me an additional R1000. AND also, I am not using VoIP for local calls. All the people I talk to are in Barbados, USA, UK and Australia.

I am writing this rather long post not just for myself, but all those other people that is seeing a potential bright future with long distance contacts a click away. I have the knowledge to let Vodacom run so much around trying to figure where I am hiding a voice packet that it will be useless to do so, but the rest will continue using Skype and similar easy to track software.

Please guys, make up your minds.

VMS
 
VMS, I never read a post for more than 3 times unless it was my own (selfish I know) until I read yours.
Thats a mean post, can't wait for Part 2!
 
:-) The part after part 1 is part 2...or maybe this next section. The forum can't handle more than 10k per post.

Hopefully someone at Vodacom and MTN (with authority and brains) reads it as well. I want people to think. If I invite a few kids (toddlers) for a kiddies party and give them Sprite to drink, and somewhere in between I put one laced with turpentine and tell them don't drink the one that tastes funny some kid WILL go to hospital. These guys are opening up channels but very losely instructing people to refrain from using certain channels. Someone will get hurt.

How many people read the fine print in the contract? We are a pretty clued up bunch of guys. One of my friends got 3G last month. I started emailing a couple of links to this forum. He was really upset. Sure, it is in writing(contract), but who reads this stuff? When you buy a car the top RPMs are marked off in red. I remember owning a Ford Meteor. No rev counter. The instruction manual stated not to over rev the engine otherwise the warranty would be void. Car magazine noted that this particular car only performed well when driven hard. So, what happened? I drove the car like a granny and eventually sold it because of the unknown fear of damaging it.

What constitutes VoIP? That is another big question I though about. If you stream data via Skype it is quite easy to pick up. The data is forced over a port. You just need to put a filter on the server and count bytes to and from this illegal IP/Port. But what if you do voice like normal chat? This means that like chatting you record you message offline and then send it like an upload to the server. This is then played on the other side. The recipient then records his message and send his side. This is not real-time. This you can do on any port. So is uploading a non real-time voice file equal to VoIP? What happens if you upload a file to you web server on a normally unused port number and MTN picks up on this and accidentally charges you R2500 for a 100MB file.

Another question: Will all streaming data be regarded as voice? I currently have my own fleet of tracking/vehicle management controllers out in the field. Currently we use SMS but the client wants to run a pilot of 2000 units on GPRS. In certain conditions data will be streamed constantly in both directions. In particular the client wants to send simple voice commands to the driver and will also listen to responses. This is analog to pushing the button on a two way radio and paging the person. GPRS makes it possible. Although not full streaming audio the data is sent over a few seconds and burst at normal rates. This is Voice over IP. They don't want to make a voice call to inform all drivers that they must remember record their distance travelled.

There are so many variations on VoIP that it infringes on normal data. If Voice over IP means that whatever I do causes a voice to be reproduced on the other side in whatever form then consider the following example:

# In my internet application I have a database of preprogrammed voice samples on the other side. From the sender I send commands to the receiver. The receiver picks up on this and plays the required samples from disk. This effectively produces a Voice over IP condition. ...and hence, according Massive Tyranic Neurosis (MTN) you are in breech of contract (and as in the movie Payback you will have the opportunity of tasting your left testicle as punishment). Thus I can do VoIP with a TCP/IP packet with a payload of 1 byte.

This also feels more and more like a freedom of speech matter. MTN is basically stating (and Vodacom not really committing) that it is analog to sensored speech. They will be listening in on what you are saying. If it sounds like voice you will be billed.

Basically voice does not need to be 50kb/s. It can be 1 byte. It can be broadband 44khz @ 16 bits CD quality. What happens if I send two way video and lip read the other person's lips? LoIP (lips over IP). What happens if I send an email and the application produces sound via TextToSpeech?

The freaky part for TMVC is that they have not realized that technology will advance. The magic part is that bandwidth required for speech is the inverse of the CPU power generating it (CODEC). So the faster and more advanced the transceiver is the less bandwidth you require. Currently good voice uses about 5kbyte/s. That is easy to pick up. At some stage in the future this will reduce to bytes per second. It will look like a client is keeping a connection with a server. How do I know all this crap? More than 10 years ago I developed voice compression software.

TMVC will have to acquire the biggest machines to scrutinize every single packet for possible voice content. Who is going to pay for this policing? Who wants to pay hundreds of Rands per month to be monitored?

VMS
 
IC

Sorry. Today I was in the "I don't want to design complex systems - lets rather sit and type pages of stuff"- Mode.

Simplified version for IC: #Don't ever bill for VoIP and related data, please!!!#

VMS
 
calling cellphones

Why are skypeouts rates for calling South African cellphones so expensive....its not even worth useing voip when you can just call from your own cell phone? is it regulated by the cell companies?
 
1) Every day
2) 5
3) UK, Dubai

- How much local VoIP, in minutes do you use (say per week)

0 minutes

- How much international VoIP, in minutes do you use (say per week)

5 hours

- What service do you use, Skype, etc.

Skype

- How important is voice quality

Very

- How important is cost

Extremely

- How many more calls do you make because you use VoIP

basically all. Else would use international call back services instead

- If you can't use voIP, what other system do you use, Telkom, mobile, etc?

Mobile for local, 80% telkom 20%

- Would you use video calling, if available

Yes, use combination of MSN Web cam and Skype for voice portion
 
Not that I use VOIP but might want to one day and don't want a surprise bill at the end of the month that can supliment a small government.
I see data purchased as data available irrespective of what I use it for.
Fuel companies don't charge different rates for petrol, why should data be any different ?
let me use my megs how I see fit to use them.
next step i see is data shaping and all we are left with is port 80, pay for the rest !!!
 
I could imagine filling up at the garage and the attendent asks me:"Was that a package you just delivered? How much did it weigh?".

A few years ago I did some contract work for a big company. They were fed up with a few operating systems and decided to go for something more suited for their embedded applications. The new operating system costs the price of a new BMW (development tools). You also have to pay a hefty license for each computer installation. As these products are embedded you cannot just walk in and count the PCs, nor can you put copy protection on the devices as the end integrator builds his own hardware. So the agreement was that all books/sales can be audited by the OS company, in order to make sure that you don't slip a license by without paying for it. Bottom line is that this company is now more at mercy of wolfs than ever before. Its, normally confidential, sales are now wide open and everytime they try to develop something that may be in competition with another client of the OS company's clients they might find that the competition will by some 'unknown' reason come to know of this. This maybe not happen now but maybe 5 years from now, in a time of crisis, some critical piece of info might get them in court.

My point? Getting someone, even helpful at first, involved in your life will screw you in the future.

Here are a few things to try:
* Go to you boss and tell him something really personal about yourself, e.g. you are having marital problems and you cannot get to sleep at night. Although you are not telling the truth just have a look how his/her attitude will change towards you. Everytime something goes wrong the boss will blame you first, but from other directions, because your personal life interferes with the work.
* Tell your boss that you have a CC/(Pty)Ltd and that your partner has a good chance of securing a R5 000 000 deal. Although you are pitching on time for work, doing everything 110% and is making the company lots of money you can be assured that everything you do will be watched like you are a criminal. Trust me I did it :-) Did not tell them about any money, just that I started a CC.
* One day go to work not wearing cloths with any pockets. Take a R200 note (or several notes along). At some stage make like someone gives you this money. You suddenly don't have a place to put it in. Then ask a 'friend' to please hold it for you until you see him again. Do this on a Friday afternoon. Dodge him on Monday. He will definitely dodge you on Tuesday. On Wednesday ask for your money back. He will probably have spent it either over the weekend or on Monday (food, petrol, take your pick). In his mind he would have decided to withdraw the money from an ATM to give it back to you. By Tuesday he feels guilty and because he doesn't have it with him he will dodge you. By Wednesday it will feel to him like you are forcing him to give you some of his money. Now pressure him. Look at the attitude change. If you could be a fly on a wall you will hear how he bitches and moans about you chatting with his friends. The longer it takes for you to get your money back the more it will feel like his money. If you don't believe me then just think about your credit card. You will, at some stage, believe that the credit available is yours and not the bank's.

My point?????

Internet is an open pipe. Any secrets you have, although confidential, will be available to the ISP. They will eventually believe, although it is your information that you have paid for, that they are in some form of control over it. In the case of VoIP they will believe, looking at the quantity of it, that they are losing money. The fact that you probably would have never called a complete stranger in the USA and talked for 30 minutes will not make them change their viewpoint that you are stealing their money.

The ISP will now have all the hardware and software in place to record VoIP (and other types of data) first for billing purposes. And next the police will get access to hours and hours of your private conversations about Abdul's last meeting with Mohammed and you will be labelled as an Islamitic extremist.

What I want people to recognize is that when you leave people with your inner thoughts, your money and your confidential conversations with people that they will, eventually, become to believe that they are the owners and guardians of all things passing through their information pipes.

Snowolf, you might be supprised to know what you can pump over port 80. The ISPs might eventually decide that if you have more than 60 seconds worth of bidirectional comms that it must be some form of communication and that is will then be billed at VoIP rates (or be kicked off in the case of MTN).

People, wake up and smell the IP loggers and trace routes! Stop these guys right now before they bill first and ask questions later.

VMS
 
Using above as template

1) Every 2nd day
2) 5
3) Barbados, USA, Australia, UK

- How much local VoIP, in minutes do you use (say per week)

0 minutes

- How much international VoIP, in minutes do you use (say per week)

2 hours

- What service do you use, Skype, etc.

Skype

- How important is voice quality

Must be understandable and not break up too much

- How important is cost

Extremely

- How many more calls do you make because you use VoIP

More every day

- If you can't use voIP, what other system do you use, Telkom, mobile, etc?

Mobile for local, 90% telkom 10%

- Would you use video calling, if available

Also-use combination of MSN Web cam and Skype for voice portion
 
Well Done!

VMS, you are definitely cynical and paranoid in the extreme. However, that does *not* mean that everybody isn't out to get you!. Keep it up!
 
IC great idea to resusitate this thread and get that poll going.
Could you somehow include the access method ie adsl(which flavour), iburst etc.
Also if you use voip regularly your subjective assesment of quality. ie as good as fixed line / cell phone. Worse than cell phone etc.
 
Magus

I am currently busy with a few projects where the only damage I do is to take potential income away from bigger fish. These guys are fighting for every cent they can, and yet they have not produced a single thing themselves. Once I proposed a project, designed and funded it myself and yet some smartypants in the group got enough paperwork together and enough legal momentum to actually steal my invention away from me.

I have learned to cover all my bases. Paranoid in the extreme? Maybe in 12 months time you and others will say:"Should have listened to that VMS dude, now we are paying big bucks for VoIP because we gave in too soon".

VMS
 
VMS - before I start, I did not read everything you had to say; to paraphrase the king's adisor (and hence the king) in Amadeus, "too many notes" or in this case, words.

As for the billing of Voip, I think you may be missing a critical point here.

Question : Are you prepared to pay for QoS?

IP by its very nature is both sessionless, and agnostic of the data being sent, consequently the sequence in which packets are sent and received on the other side (and of course how many times the same packet must be sent to ensure successful transmission) is immaterial. In fact, it is, by its very design, meant to lose packets along the way, because they can be picked up later. Quality voice communication is not like this.

For non-voice, non sequence, non time sensitive, structured data (e.g. a file download - even porn) this is not a problem. However, if the third word spoken arrives before the second, .... then we have a problem, and YOU as the Voip user have a bad experience. (Any one ever experienced lag or jitter on a VoIP call??)

Are YOU prepared to pay a premium rate in order to ensure that your voice "data" packets arrive both timeously and in sequence???? If the answer is YES, then paying a premium rate to use your "MB" for this should not be an issue - as it should still work out cheaper than Telkom.

If the answer is NO, and you continue to use a non prioritised (new or hidden ??) protocol in order to route your voice packets, then you ought to be allowed to pay the normal data rate, but should not expect the premium service (which, frankly, you are experiencing a "version" of whilst the networks are not congested).

The other thing you must still consider is the interconnect costs, especially if you wish to terminate a call outside of the host network. From all you have written above and elsewhere, I cannot imagine that interconnect is a new concept to you, however it seems to have been avoided in the tirade above.

For the uninitiated, interconnect works like this : If a call originates on Network A ( be that voice data or otherwise) and wishes to terminate on network B (i.e. the network on which the called party resides - for example a British Telecom land line) then the calling party network must pay a fee, normally per minute, to allow that call to be connected on the other network.

The same principle applies to ISPs with traffic originating and terminating on different networks, however the fees have traditionally been waived, and or offset (nett billed) through a complex structure of agreements based on volume etc between the different networks. Another reason why this has not historically been billed is because ISPs have not had the infrastructure in order to accurately capture and bill these transactions - the number of hops between (as each interim carrier would need to be billed, and hence on-bill), and the possibility of each packet taking a different route makes this very very difficult. IP by its very nature is not circuit switched, and so each packet may theoretically follow a different route over different carriers and so incur different billing charges.

VoiP is different as there is a (mostly) known point of origination, and a definite known point of Termination where the call terminates on either a PSTN, or Mobile network, and so this can (and must otherwise the call will not terminate) be billed. Where the call terminates on another IP device (e.g. PC or smartphone) this becomes more difficult, especially so long as we live in the realm of dynamic IP addresses, but once this has been overcome and every possible IP device has been assigned a fixed, and so billable, IP address, and then I am afraid the days of "free" IP to IP calls is gone.

What makes VoIP billable (and therefor a premium service) is that in many instances the carrier preselects a route, and forces all packets over that route - both to enable QoS and to allow equitable and consistent billing. So, strictly speaking, commercial VoIP is a misnomer, as it bypasses one of the fundamental constructs of IP and forces the route over which the packets must travel, and disallows the ad hoc routing of packets which is a foundation of the TCP/IP network we have all grown to love and abuse.

If TMVC ( I think that is what you called them ) get to a point that they can determine, and so offer to prioritise and force route VoIP packets (with certain QoS standards in place) then surely it is their right to charge a premium for such a service. If your voice packets are so inconsequential that you are prepared to suffer an inconsistent, degradeable, and inherently unreliable service as normal IP, then I believe you ought to be able to "waste" you MB as you see fit at the billable rate you see fit, but then don't come crying when you (or another party) were incomprehensible for a large part of a conversation which required you to repeat yourself so many times that it would have been cheaper to use a landline.

Just my 275cents worth - how much my connection time cost me to write this ;)

At the end of the day, I am jealous of you who have the choice and the opportunity to feel hard done by. I live in an area where I have Telkom ISDN, and that is about as good as it is going to get for quite some time. I am too far from Metro areas for any form of wireless broadband, and over 6km from tar, so what chance to I have for ADSL .... Enjoy your toys and be thankful for the opportunities afforded to you , some of us are not so lucky and WISH we could be "ripped off" at R10.00 per MB for international calls (which, I am lead to believe, equates to about 4 - 5 minutes which is not too bad I believe)
 
ic said:
I personally think it would be interesting to know how many forumites are actively using VoIP on a daily basis, I would also like to know whether it is for International and/or Local conversations, and if you would previously have used your Telkomonopoly or Cellery phones to make such calls.

And the answer is "You / We all are" One way or another, whether we choose to or not. Do you really think the major trunking, both local and international, is all analogue????? Of course not. The major international carriers, plus our local carriers, have been using VoIP for a long time, for at least part of the trunking of their calls. This is not new technology, in fact it is probably as old as IP itself.
 
Neo said:
- How much local VoIP, in minutes do you use (say per week) Most of them (ultimately - somewhere along the line)
- How much international VoIP, in minutes do you use (say per week)
Ditto
- What service do you use, Skype, etc.
Telkom international trunking (only effective route out of or across the country)
- How important is voice quality
Extremely - don't want to waste my time repeating myself or second guessing what was said.
- How important is cost
Not very, at least not as important as getting things right the first time and avoiding mistakes / misunderstanding (difficult to put a price to that)
- How many more calls do you make because you use VoIP
None - it is a tool not a toy, that gets used by default
- If you can't use voIP, what other system do you use, Telkom, mobile, etc?
Paper and pen??? Given how traffic is connected, what else is there?
- Would you use video calling, if available
No - we need to preserve our "scarce" international bandwidth

:)
 
1) frequency of use.
As often as possible
2) average number of contacts.
Lots :)

3) location of contacts.
All over the place, SA, Germany, UK

- How much local VoIP, in minutes do you use (say per week)
A few hours a day if possible, anything to avoid paying telkom's prices

- How much international VoIP, in minutes do you use (say per week)
60+

- What service do you use, Skype, etc.
Skype, MSN7

- How important is voice quality
As long as i can hear what they say, no prob

- How important is cost
if its cheaper than Telkom i'm there and will tell as many people as i can about it

- How many more calls do you make because you use VoIP
lol... *lots*

- If you can't use voIP, what other system do you use, Telkom, mobile, etc?
MTN cell.. dont have a telskom line

- Would you use video calling, if available
Prolly if the price was favourable
 
*looks at Bosun*

Well said. I have to complement you on actually making a long post worth a read. As for not having the oppurtunity, I think it is a point that should have been raised earlier, as we often ask for more rather then be thankful for what we have.

I am thankful for 3G and the cost is something that has never concerned me, as the convience and improvement in my life for using it is worth every cent spent.
 
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