VW "Monkeygate" scandal

The problem with VW in particular is the long legacy of this kind of thing. As AutoExpert puts it, if your company was the brainchild of someone that killed millions in gas chambers then this is the last thing you should do.
 
I thought the scandal was that the study was a fraud: that the Beetle was equipped with software to reduce emissions in the lab: in the real world it spewed 40 times the permitted limit. Not the animal testing which all corporates do when necessary
 
VW "Monkeygate" scandal

I thought the scandal was that the study was a fraud: that the Beetle was equipped with software to reduce emissions in the lab: in the real world it spewed 40 times the permitted limit. Not the animal testing which all corporates do when necessary

That’s a defeat device, pretty much all VW, BMW, Audi and Merc diesel have it according to the documentary.
 
That’s a defeat device, pretty much all VW, BMW, Audi and Merc diesel have it according to the documentary.

So why is everyone going on about the animals? That's not really a scandal is it?
 
So why is everyone going on about the animals? That's not really a scandal is it?

It’s not really cool for the monkey either.

I suggest to replace them by VW engineers.
 
The problem with VW in particular is the long legacy of this kind of thing. As AutoExpert puts it, if your company was the brainchild of someone that killed millions in gas chambers then this is the last thing you should do.
Well said
 
So why is everyone going on about the animals? That's not really a scandal is it?
You don't see the problem with Hitler's car company suggesting they should gas a person with diesel fumes and then upon realising what a terrible idea it is decides to gas a monkey instead?

This now after they were already under investigation and already made the defeat device smarter in order to get past regulators.
 
VW bosses demand probe into diesel tests on monkeys

Members of Volkswagen's supervisory board are calling for an inquiry into tests in which monkeys were exposed to toxic diesel fumes.

The New York Times reported on Friday that German carmakers had used the European Research Group on Environment and Health in the Transport Sector, also known as EUGT, to commission the study, which was designed to defend diesel following revelations that the fuel's exhaust fumes were carcinogenic.

EUGT, which was dissolved in 2017, received all of its funding from Volkswagen, Daimler and BMW, the New York Times said. It remains unclear whether the carmakers were aware of monkeys being used in the experiments.

Volkswagen and fellow German carmakers Daimler and BMW on Saturday denounced the study, which was conducted in 2014. Revelations about the study are the latest aftershock from the Volkswagen emissions-rigging scandal, which are continuing to rock the auto industry.

'Absurd and inexcusable'

Bernd Althusmann, a member of Volkswagen's supervisory board, said such experiments were "absurd and inexcusable", demanding "harsh consequences" for whoever was responsible for the study, and works council chief Bernd Osterloh, who is also on the carmaker's board, called for a detailed investigation into the matter.

Commissioning such a study involving live animals did not reflect ethical or moral behaviour, Osterloh said.

"If the people who were responsible at the time are still on board, then personnel consequences must be considered," he said.

Testing on people

Then on Sunday, German daily Stuttgarter Zeitung reported that EUGT also sponsored scientific studies testing nitrogen dioxide, a gas found in exhaust fumes, on people. It said about 25 healthy young people inhaled nitrogen dioxide in varying doses over a period of hours at an institute belonging to Aachen University in Germany, but the impact of the gas on people could not be determined when the study was published in 2016, it said.

The purpose and outcome of the study remain unclear but revelations about experiments involving people come as the auto industry faces bans of toxic diesel vehicles from inner cities following revelations in 2015 that Volkswagen manipulated emissions on diesel-engined cars.

Daimler on Sunday condemned the studies, saying : "We are appalled by the extent of the studies and their implementation. We condemn the experiments in the strongest terms. Even though Daimler did not have influence on the study's design, we have launched a comprehensive investigation into the matter."

https://www.iol.co.za/motoring/indu...d-probe-into-diesel-tests-on-monkeys-12992798
 
The guy in charge of the test is already in jail, I doubt much is going to happen.
 
The problem with VW in particular is the long legacy of this kind of thing. As AutoExpert puts it, if your company was the brainchild of someone that killed millions in gas chambers then this is the last thing you should do.

Are you telling me BMW and Daimler had NO idea what was going on? Really? They are all complicit.

Every time I see someone use the guy from AutoExpert as a source for an argument, and just know they've applied no critical thinking of their own. The guy is entertaining, but that's it.
 
Are you telling me BMW and Daimler had NO idea what was going on? Really? They are all complicit.

Every time I see someone use the guy from AutoExpert as a source for an argument, and just know they've applied no critical thinking of their own. The guy is entertaining, but that's it.

If you want to go to nazism, BMW was manufacturing bikes and plane engines for the Luftwaffe and Mercedes was Hitler’s favorite car.

Not one is better than the other, even Renault has been part of the denazification.
 
If you want to go to nazism, BMW was manufacturing bikes and plane engines for the Luftwaffe and Mercedes was Hitler’s favorite car.

Not one is better than the other, even Renault has been part of the denazification.

You can find dirt on any company, family if you go back far enough. It's besides the point in this "monkeygate" story, but some forumites are unable to reason without logical fallacies.

Nobody likes animal testing. But whether we want to admit it or not, every one of us has in some shape or form benefited from animal testing. Admit it and accept it. We're ALL beneficiaries. Child labour in supply chains is another example. What about people in first-in-man studies? People are just incapable of facing this very real truth.
 
Volkswagen, BMW and Daimler used caged monkeys in ‘diesel fume test’

German manufacturers admit to financing study that was designed to prove emissions were lower by forcing animals to breathe in exhaust fumes

Volkswagen, BMW and Daimler have admitted to funding an emissions test that forced caged monkeys to breathe in exhaust fumes.

The study, which used monkeys distracted by cartoons in a closed environment, was designed to illustrate that modern diesel cars are far cleaner than their predecessors and not harmful to health. It took place in New Mexico, US, in 2014 but a report of the findings was never completed.

According to The New York Times, the test was handled by the European Research Group on Environment and Health in the Transport Sector (EUGT), which was an organisation established by the trio of German car manufacturers along with parts supplier Bosch. The EUGT folded before the results of the test could be compiled.

Since the nature of the test came to light, all of the involved brands have distanced themselves from it.

Daimler stated that it is “appalled by the extent of the studies and their implementation”, while Volkswagen chairman Hans Dieter Pötsch said the tests were "totally incomprehensible" and that the incident must be "investigated fully and unconditionally”.

Reports suggest other tests were carried out with humans prior to the monkey test, but that they involved inhalation of nitrogen dioxide (NO2), which is commonly associated with diesel engines, rather than exhaust fumes.

Steffen Seibert, spokesman for German chancellor Angela Merkel said that "these tests on monkeys or even humans cannot be justified ethically in any way".

In the year that followed the monkey fumes test, Volkswagen’s use of emissions cheating devices was brought to light. The Dieselgate scandal has since led to changes to regulatory emissions tests, helping to create the new Real Driving Emissions tests.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/...daimler-used-caged-monkeys-‘diesel-fume-test’
 
The only 'scandal' I see is that they rigged the tests by using a gyppo-device in a test vehicle that doesn't give real-world results.
 
Are you telling me BMW and Daimler had NO idea what was going on? Really? They are all complicit.
Stop trying to shift focus. This thread is about VW and their Monkeygate.

Trying to divert attention away from the matter is not going to change the past and undo this all. VW is, has, and will keep on being a morally corrupt company. It has been embroiled in countless scandals and while other car makers also have some dodgy dealings in their past no one can surpass VW on that front.

On a lighter note....
[video=youtube;IFSsOFxSc-0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFSsOFxSc-0[/video]
 
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