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What Amp
- Thread starter Mr Feesh
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OverKill69
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oooooo... There is only one brand IMO for Amps... but you're priced on a tight budget for a big ONKYO.
What power output you looking for? that's a better place to start?
What speakers you got?
What other components do you have?
From there you can find the best match for input output and what kind of amplification you looking for.
There are different levels of "Amps"
You looking for a home cinema centralization device but not really fussy on volume?
You a quality freak?
Nope... HDMI pips optical every time... however... some amps have better DSPs than others.
Yamaha optical will beat Samsung HDMI in listening quality.
I assume you mean optical audio versus audio over HDMI? Either way, you can get HD quality surround sound. Possibly look for an amp which supports HDMI version 1.4 as this is the latest version which supports 3D and audio return.
OverKill69
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Integra is an OKYO with Integra window dressing... if you buy the matching Onkyo it'll cost less and be EXACTLY the same.
OverKill69
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Did some looking around.
The equivalent Onkyo would be the TX-NR708 or TX-NR609 (EDIT I said 606 earlier)
Not sure on prices... if you're in Jo'burg... I could recommend a spot with the best deals... they're the official agent.
The equivalent Onkyo would be the TX-NR708 or TX-NR609 (EDIT I said 606 earlier)
Not sure on prices... if you're in Jo'burg... I could recommend a spot with the best deals... they're the official agent.
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OverKill69
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Is that a second hand price?
If it's for a new one... then it's very not bad! hahahaha
Integra is normally 20% to 40% more expensive than Onkyo... and they're IDENTICAL besides the exterior look. Integra likes to separate the power amp from the processor... which is only REALLY worth it if you have ultra high end speakers running a balanced line setup already.
LOL! These two EVEN LOOK IDENTICAL!
http://www.integrahometheater.com/model.cfm?m=DTR-40.2&class=Receiver&p=s
vs
http://www.uk.onkyo.com/en/products/tx-nr708-35565.html?tab=Details
If it's for a new one... then it's very not bad! hahahaha
Integra is normally 20% to 40% more expensive than Onkyo... and they're IDENTICAL besides the exterior look. Integra likes to separate the power amp from the processor... which is only REALLY worth it if you have ultra high end speakers running a balanced line setup already.
LOL! These two EVEN LOOK IDENTICAL!
http://www.integrahometheater.com/model.cfm?m=DTR-40.2&class=Receiver&p=s
vs
http://www.uk.onkyo.com/en/products/tx-nr708-35565.html?tab=Details
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OverKill69
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NOOOOOOOOOOO
Don't do it!
There are plenty of HDMI cables that are fantastic but cost R120 as opposed to R400
The best are "Labgear" in my opinion. Gold plated, 1.4 rated, the works... available from SPACE outlets.
EDIT:
There is absolutely no way that an HDMI cable makes any difference whatsoever.
The signal is DIGITAL!
The digital signal is encoded and decoded on either end... THE ONLY TIME THERE'S A DIFFERENCE is when there is MASSIVE picture and sound degradation from massive interference. Then its the cable.
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If by optical sound you mean a lightpipe connection then the simple answer is no. In transporting a digital stream the most important factors are that the ones and zero's are never confused and that they happen at the correct time. Getting the ones to to remain ones and zeros zeros is the easy part. Timing distortions (jitter) increase as the length of the connection increases. For runs of more than say 5 meters the HDMI and lightpipe protocols become tricky whilst co-axial sp-diff can go 100m with ease.
Inherently the optical receivers turn on faster than they turn off causing a slight distortion of the on and off times. The bandwidth that can be achieved on lightpipe reliably is lower than on an electrical connection e.g. the MADI protocol (which is not really a home format but I mention it to illustrate the bandwidth issue).
That said the typical home theater environment is well served by HDMI or lightpipe or electrical co-ax (sp-diff) connections between sources and the amplifier and all modern equipment in your price range includes good re-clocking hardware to correct for jitter. Any of these protocols do fine over short runs - the bottlenecks in quality then remain the digital to analogue converters or the power amps themselves.
A bigger decision about your signal route comes about because flat panel monitors and DLP projectors have a delay in displaying the picture. If your TV/Projector has audio outputs these are likely to be corrected to be in sync with your picture. Some people thus recommend sending the different sources to the display and then always listen to the audio out of the display. If this is what you wish to do then:
1) You need a display that has an audio output that is time corrected.
2) You need an amp that allows you to send (typically HDMI) from various sources to your display, yet always listen to the audio output of your display.
If you select this signal path then please be aware that if you see any picture artifacts on account of extended cable runs then the audio is also compromised.
I personally prefer to keep the audio signal route simpler and fall into the camp of people who would rather send the picture to the display from the amp and feed the speakers from the amp without round tripping it through the display. Mostly I prefer this approach because it allows for a wider selection of displays. Many good projectors in particular still do not have time compensated outputs.
Another reason why I prefer this is that HDMI cabling is often pushed to or beyond the limits of accurate data transmission where a projector is involved.
If you go this route you need an amplifier that
1) Allows you to to specify a delay that matches your picture delay.
You would also need to either be confident in your subjective assessment of sync or look at a tool such as the syncheck
http://www.pharoahaudio.com/syncheckproducthomepage.html
Despite my soapbox about audio sync many people are very happy with the experience of watching slightly poor sync. It is your call whether it bothers you or not. In the price category you are looking at I think it is an area where people often compromise without knowing that they are compromising.
Yamaha seem predominant locally and do have good product. I am not personally that crazy about the way the user interface conflates many choices yet many people like this - and I understand the motivation behind their "scene" based approach. Rotel, Marantz, Denon and NAD have always been worthy amp manufacturers and ONKYO are I feel often under-rated but I disagree with Overkill69 that other manufacturers are not even worth considering.
As always google home theater forums for direct user experience.
Overkill69 raises a point that I never even personally consider - the DSP spatial algorithms. I am of the philosophy that I wish to hear the spacial aspects of a recording accurately. Every algorithm I have ever heard has at best been initially wow but discarded after the novelty disappeared and the accuracy of the original is what I return to time and again.
Inherently the optical receivers turn on faster than they turn off causing a slight distortion of the on and off times. The bandwidth that can be achieved on lightpipe reliably is lower than on an electrical connection e.g. the MADI protocol (which is not really a home format but I mention it to illustrate the bandwidth issue).
That said the typical home theater environment is well served by HDMI or lightpipe or electrical co-ax (sp-diff) connections between sources and the amplifier and all modern equipment in your price range includes good re-clocking hardware to correct for jitter. Any of these protocols do fine over short runs - the bottlenecks in quality then remain the digital to analogue converters or the power amps themselves.
A bigger decision about your signal route comes about because flat panel monitors and DLP projectors have a delay in displaying the picture. If your TV/Projector has audio outputs these are likely to be corrected to be in sync with your picture. Some people thus recommend sending the different sources to the display and then always listen to the audio out of the display. If this is what you wish to do then:
1) You need a display that has an audio output that is time corrected.
2) You need an amp that allows you to send (typically HDMI) from various sources to your display, yet always listen to the audio output of your display.
If you select this signal path then please be aware that if you see any picture artifacts on account of extended cable runs then the audio is also compromised.
I personally prefer to keep the audio signal route simpler and fall into the camp of people who would rather send the picture to the display from the amp and feed the speakers from the amp without round tripping it through the display. Mostly I prefer this approach because it allows for a wider selection of displays. Many good projectors in particular still do not have time compensated outputs.
Another reason why I prefer this is that HDMI cabling is often pushed to or beyond the limits of accurate data transmission where a projector is involved.
If you go this route you need an amplifier that
1) Allows you to to specify a delay that matches your picture delay.
You would also need to either be confident in your subjective assessment of sync or look at a tool such as the syncheck
http://www.pharoahaudio.com/syncheckproducthomepage.html
Despite my soapbox about audio sync many people are very happy with the experience of watching slightly poor sync. It is your call whether it bothers you or not. In the price category you are looking at I think it is an area where people often compromise without knowing that they are compromising.
Yamaha seem predominant locally and do have good product. I am not personally that crazy about the way the user interface conflates many choices yet many people like this - and I understand the motivation behind their "scene" based approach. Rotel, Marantz, Denon and NAD have always been worthy amp manufacturers and ONKYO are I feel often under-rated but I disagree with Overkill69 that other manufacturers are not even worth considering.
As always google home theater forums for direct user experience.
Overkill69 raises a point that I never even personally consider - the DSP spatial algorithms. I am of the philosophy that I wish to hear the spacial aspects of a recording accurately. Every algorithm I have ever heard has at best been initially wow but discarded after the novelty disappeared and the accuracy of the original is what I return to time and again.
Edit - Overkill69 is WRONG! The characteristic impedance of a cable must match source and load impedances for accurate data transmission. Simple comment - short cables, buy cheap; long cables - spend the money.
EDIT: I have personal experience where I have wasted time and money which was resolved by purchasing better cables. Overkill69 is absolutely CORRECT in suggesting cables that satisfy standards rather than another criterion. Gold plating looks nice but any product you purchase will have been subject to low level signals making their way through literally hundreds if not thousands of either tin/lead or ROHS junctions. My point and my experience suggest that whilst a good connector is desirable my focus on longer cables is more relevant to the cable itself than how pretty the connector looks.
Transmission line theory is hard to understand, let alone explain in a post such as this. I certainly agree that spending big money on short cables is often misdirected and that there are cheaper cables that outperform more expensive cables.
My experience certainly suggests that where longer cables are involved I do not share the concept of any wire will be good enough.
EDIT: I have personal experience where I have wasted time and money which was resolved by purchasing better cables. Overkill69 is absolutely CORRECT in suggesting cables that satisfy standards rather than another criterion. Gold plating looks nice but any product you purchase will have been subject to low level signals making their way through literally hundreds if not thousands of either tin/lead or ROHS junctions. My point and my experience suggest that whilst a good connector is desirable my focus on longer cables is more relevant to the cable itself than how pretty the connector looks.
Transmission line theory is hard to understand, let alone explain in a post such as this. I certainly agree that spending big money on short cables is often misdirected and that there are cheaper cables that outperform more expensive cables.
My experience certainly suggests that where longer cables are involved I do not share the concept of any wire will be good enough.
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The amp has a network port. It's going to be a big mission to run an ethernet cable in to the tv room. Would an wireless N extender with a switch do the JOB? In the next few months i will probably build media center. Is there a big diff in speed between wirless n and ethernet?
Roman4604
Executive Member
Depends on the distance & more importantly obstructions, but you can get near 100Mbps performance without breaking the bank.
With 2 wireless N APs like this one ... http://www.dbg.co.za/product_info.php?cPath=1_55_56&products_id=390 (one to set to AP mode other to client mode) should be good for 70-80Mbps real-world throughput.
the main router will be directly in the floor above it. Currently using the Netgear Wireless N 300, DGN 2200. Will this have enough bandwidth to stream HD if i use the Wireless Router to extend my network?
Roman4604
Executive Member
There's no guarantee, depends on what the floor is made of e.g. cement is not very condusive to good signal.
Its a concrete slab. So not going to do any favors.
Roman4604
Executive Member
Unfortunately your've just going to have to take a gamble if running cable is out of the question.
The AP (client) I posted above can run off POE (includes the injector) so one can easily move it around from where the plug/amp are located, to try find a clearer path. Wireless signals radiate out in a doughnut shape upwards and downwards so there may be a possibility of finding a path through windows, stairs etc.
Only other solution you can try pursuing is Ethernet over Powerline using something like this ... http://www.billionsa.com/product/ho...ug-AV-Wall-Plug-Gigabit-Ethernet-Adapter.html (unsure of pricing/availability)
Run a cable.
What Ponder said. For the same reasons as my earlier comments use CAT 5E or higher.