What IBurst Think

How about we take the message to them? Tell them that their package is not aimed at the non regular users that are happy with 56k or ISDN. That a 1mbps Package is aimed at Power users, gamers and P2P users. If they got 400 emails saying that what they are doing is a mistake and that their actions will have a similar effect as Sentech, surely they will listen? And if they don't, then their product is destined to fail. And then all our Bandwidth are belong to Telkom.

Cheerz
 
Fieldy, the only way a company like this is going to listen is if it effects them financially

Cancel all your subscriptions and they might just feel our wrath... CONSUMERS WILL NOT LIE DOWN!!!

wmhaahahahahahahaha


er... I've watched too much Invader Zim...
 
And smoked some good sh*t too.

Seriously tho, I think we should think up some good iBurst & WBS surveys, the first ongoing one is how many iBurst pre-launch customers are there, I will ask rpm again.

Another obvious survey: do you think 3Gb is a lot?

Do you think a 1Mbps connection should be capped at a. <3Gb; b 3Gb; c. >3Gb

Do you consider yourself to be a. Bandwidth addict b. Business user c. Low bandwidth user...

Basic surveys like that.

If WBS <i>Management</i> do actually take into account what we say on MyADSL, provided they apply some logic, their target market(s) (i.e. us customers) should heavily nudge WBS in the correct direction.

I am wondering why WBS haven't requested rpm to run some surveys for them - <b>Anakin & Sihen</b>[?]

Nuf said 4 now.
 
What I'd like to know from WBS is how they can justify their pricing, when you look at the same service being offered in Australia.
For example: Why is it that the same modem which is available in Australia for $249Aus (equivalent if R1150) costs R2100 here? I do not believe that it costs you R950 to import a PCMCIA device.
Also, why is it that in Australia, for the equivalent of R462 (Ozemail) you can get their premier service, which includes 3 mailboxes, with 15 email addresses, each mailbox 10MB, personal webspace of 5MB, and dial-up access when out of the network coverage area?
Also, only after 12G usage is the download speed slowed down.
Based on this, how can WBS justify their prices, for which there is a 3GB cap, 1 mailbox, 5 email addresses, NO personal webspace, and no dial-up access?

Maybe those who are close to WBS can ask these questions...

D

Stewing over bad service - roll on any alternatives!
 
divv, you sort of have a point about the cost here of UTC/UTD, but there could be a ligit reason, I'm thinking it's:
CostPrice+ImportDuties+SomeLicenseFeePaidToGovernment

That is of course pure speculation on my part.
 
Hi IC, I'm sure there are import costs etc, however, I'd also like to point out that the price I saw and converted into Rands was the price that END-USERS were paying overseas - which means that the suppliers would be getting it for EVEN LESS...
And all those other costs should not mean that the unit costs almost double.. Interestingly enough, the same overseas website has the ethernet unit as cheaper than the laptop version...
Di

Stewing over bad service - roll on any alternatives!
 
It's quite simply the culture of greed we are cultivating in this country.

It starts at the highest level of government and filters down through every sector of society.
People see top government MP's on the take, so they figure, WTF, I'll just follow suit.
We're becoming a nation of criminals - well, I'm not, but so many around are just take take take.

Conversations dominated by money, stories about BEE where instant millionaires are being made - IOW, young up and coming black businesses are given huge cash injections before they've proved themselves.

Joburg MPs in the top echelon getting bonuses of R250 000, making them millionaires, while squatter camps are home to the vast majority.

How does this relate to iBurst ? - heck, I dunno, just talking crap on a Sunday [:D]

Actually, it does all relate - the South African public are so used to getting the short end of the stick and being screwed out of thier hard earned cash by monopolies/consortiums that iBurst is just following suit with thier horribly over-inflated prices.

If Telkom can do it and make 4.8billion profit, heck, why can't iBurst ?

Vat hom Fluffy!
 
You guys should take into account that in other countries they actually subsidise the purchase of the initial modem so that they get more customers in that way. Proven in new zealand with their version of Sentech. They subsidise the modem to make it affordable for a person.

I do agree with most people here, iburst is trying to corner the wrong market, where their product obviously cater for the power user/gamer/business user.

They should catch a wake up
 
divv, I also looked at the .au iBurst pricing, and I found the prices were about the same, that was a couple of weeks back before I got iBurst.

I suggest that we both post url's & compare what we've been looking at.

I agree that WBS should be getting a bulk discount from Kyocera.

<b>Does anyone know what (if any) license fee would be paid to government for actually using the UTD/UTC</b>[?] This is along the lines of having an alarm system in your home hooked up to a radio transmitter & having to pay an annual radio license fee.
 
IC I googled "iburst" and went to www.iburst.com.au/site/iburst/iburst_overview.php , from there I took the link get iburst - choose a provider. One of the services that caught my eye was OZEmail - and it was from there website that I got most of my data.
But I also saw an earlier post - Ozzie iburst forums - which gives another link: http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-threads.cfm?f=18 amd within that a heading marked WBS Wireless Internet, which I followed because WBS (same dudes???) and if you read some of the posts there you will see many other interesting options - for example http://cbdnet.com.au/Content/content_pricing_monthlyplans.html

Di

Stewing over bad service - roll on any alternatives!
 
di vv, amazing coincidence that - a company in iBurst .au teritory also called WBS. I could be completely wrong but I think a coincidence is all it is (did some quick research).

Unfortunately that cbdnet.com.au/... url hangs my browser (I will eventually switch from IE to something else, just not right now tho).

I don't know if WBS (ZA) realise this, but if people get pissed at them, there will be a very short leap to the name Wireless<i>BS</i>, any name that includes the letters <i>BS</i> is doomed to ridicule, I would do something about it if I were WBS. There once was a (IT) architect I worked with, who had the initials BS, and believe me, he was the laughing stock, because he sprouted so much BS.

Another thing - iBurst - people I talk to keep thinking Burst Eye / Eye Burst, a tad unfortunate, but probably gimmicky enough for people to remember - especially with the "shoot 'em up" gaming community.
 
Just a note re what has been termed here as my allegations.

I could list the names of the persons who stated the various things I referred to, as well as give some interesting quotes from the various IBurst people present, to back up what I've said - but tactically, its not a good idea - because if I list who was present, and who said what, then THEY will know for certain who I am. :)

I will say though, that Sasan Parvin (chief tech oficer) was extremely serious and adamant, whenever the subject came up - that 3 gigs was not only 'a lot of data', but 'quite sufficient for any normal user'. (I would imagine that this is not something he would deny, if asked, given his totally frosty and disinterested attitude, towards any suggestion that a 3gig cap was not a good idea.)

I'm still considering trying IBurst, regardless.

(Because if their eventual 'throttled' state, is more reliable, consistent and faster than Sucktech's supposed 'regular service' - then it might be a better option, regardless of the profiteers at the top of the pyramid.
Guaranteed available and consistent (although low speed) b/w, could still beat the bullsh*t and stress from Sentechs unpredictable 24/7 modem service.)
 
THX1138, let me make this easy for you, I personally stated that you have made allegations about "What IBurst Think", and you can quote me anytime.

In the abscence of conclusive proof, that is all your very 1st post under the member name <i>THX1138</i> is.

I never said that I didn't believe you, right now I am not prepared to say that I do beleive your allegations either.

I have also stated that your allegations are serious enough for WBS Management to provide an official response.

The reason I suggested you name the WBS people, is because you already provided sufficient info for WBS to deduce your identity - you had already exposed yourself. While online anonimity is important, hiding behind a new member name did nothing for you:
Code:
You probably met with several people at WBS, either individually or in group(s).
It happened before 11/25/2004 : 08:57:15.
Looking at the security tapes would allow them to visually identify you.

Your topic is important, especially to those who already have iBurst, your topic is equally controversial.

What should happen now: the named WIM, should either respond individually, or WBS Management should respond. Like I said before, both Sihen and Anakin should authenticate whoever from WBS actually responds - (if).
 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by ic</i>
Cellular Network Operators make you sign a 24 month contract ... to tie you to them hand and foot, although they lure you with a shiny new phone, which they tell you is free. Nothing in life is free, and you are definitely not getting a cellphone for free, you're actually paying it off at an inflated price over 2 years.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
OT: This was actually a pretty clever business tactic, especially in the SAn context where the initial price of a new phone is a major hurdle to becoming a cellphone user for most of the population who aren't so well off ... since you pay for the phone <i>anyway</i> as part of your contract (hope nobody is really stupid enough to think it's actually free), effectively they have managed to sucker all the people on contract into buying a whole new phone every two years. (Of course many don't mind because they've also convinced us we simply have to keep "trendy" too.) Anyway, this was clever because what it means is that a large number of lower-cost 2nd-hand phones are continually entering the market, which allows poorer people to afford phones and also join on a pay-as-you-go arrangement. This strategy has been pretty successful ... Vodacom alone have over 10,000,000 customers in SA alone (almost 25% of the population), and earn an average revenue per customer of R184/month.
 
Sasan Parvin must be a very narrow minded un-imaginative person if he thinks 3gig is enough for anyone.

Try streaming 128kb/s quality radio for a few hours and see how much bandwidth it chows up. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that would be 46meg of data in an hour, so 65 hours of steaming music would chew your 3gig right up.

Perhaps Sasan Parvin would also say that anyone wanting to listen to streaming audio is just not normal too.

What a plonker.

Vat hom Fluffy!
 
Yep, people must either stick with & defend their own <i>o</i>pi<i>nions</i>, or deny they ever said such a thing, or be big enough to admit that they were wrong and take action to sort it!
 
"Just a note re what has been termed here as my allegations"

Well frankly THX1138 at the moment your comments are exactly what you termed them, allegations. Now no one was disputing the accuracy of those allegations (from other sources it does seem to be accurate), we'd just prefer to hear as many opinions as possible before jumping to conclusions.

And to the WBS lads who may or may not be paying attention to this forum I would suggest that you do some in depth research into the current usage of your pre-launch customers and to "broadband" customers the world over. It should become blindingly obvious that 3GB is a ridiculously low cap (if one is even warranted) and that if the cap is in place to limit international usage then only international usage should contrubute towards the cap and only international usage should be affected by it.

Traffic shaping is also a terrible idea, WBS management is not the moral compass of their customers, neither are they the censorship board. Their customers pay them for a connection, what those customers do with that conncection is their own business. I think everyone could accept port prioritization if it was a transparent proccess, certain applications are far more dependant on latency than bandwidth and it is foolish to not recognise that. However care must be taken that such measures are not implemented to a degree that would render other forms of traffic unusable. Otherwise we may as well get the NG Kerk to decide what we may do and read again.

Lastly if iBurst's final offering does not resemble their beta testing period it does render any positive reviews they may recieve void and could possible result in a nasty backlash from those beta users who would have become used to one thing and are now receiving quite a bit less.

I agree with ic and the others in suggesting that some sort of statement regarding what their cap and shaping policies will be, should be forthcoming from a senior member of WBS management if just to end this debate.
 
By Razer0
Speaking of foreign forums with poeple using the same technology...I just had an idea about posting there concerning how we are getting, how shall i say it, 'raped'? of our precious bandwidth...i'd absolutely LOVE to see their reactions after hearing of the prices that these atrocities charge us for internet services

Razer0, this thought crossed my mind even before I got iBurst, and google led me to the same Whirlpool forum. If you do post there, make sure that sheep shagging doesn't feature in the thread :p - I lfound that out the hard way with my uncle in Perth. Sadly iBurst isn't available in Perth, so my cousin has no feedback to give me.

By Craig:
...
Things I can't understand about iburst:
...
-that they seem to be targeting people who would get along fine with dial up 56k connection (i.e. the below average to average, non-power user)
...

Craig, personally I don't beleive that WBS' pricing speaks to the community of up to 56K non-power users. The pricing is more aligned with the "Power User".
 
The Last Post

Okay - my last post:


a) For those who think that 'few posts on forum = minimal potential of being valid'. Bad logic. I'll prove it further in.)

b) I went to IBurst and they met with me knowing that I am a journalist.

c) I was sniffing around for the possibility of a freebie service, or some interestingly useful
'exchange of service for advertising' type of deal that is routine in Media.

d) All the comments they made at me, WERE made - although whether they stated the things they did, and behaved in the way they did because 'I'm a journalist', or because they truly believe them, is unknown.

e) I felt that the things they were saying needed to be communicated to the forum, regardless - and as there was no 'off the record' requests by them, they clearly felt content and secure with what they were saying.

f) Even though there was the chance of a deal potentially occurring with IBurst, the things they were saying didn't sit well with me - and I made a decision call to make the initial post, regardless of whether this screwed up the possible deal. (I tend to be compulsively honest, regarding this as more important and ethical than worrying about my own possible 'benefit' sometimes.)

g) Since the post, I got tired of waiting for my Editor to come back to me with firm info on some kind of useful arrangement - so I forked out cash for the modem and the '30 day notice' contract, becoming a regular customer of IBurst - altho I'm still with Sentech...

h) The one thing that irked me enough to decide to share the info with the forum, was when I was asked just what exactly did I download (that would make me so adamant that a 3 gig cap was utterly insufficient) - and when I replied 'movies and that sort of thing'. Thami Mtashali (chief operating officer) leaned forward with a big smile and said "We'll RENT you some movies rather."
Laughs all round from the assembled folks.

The overall approach which they were taking was precisely as I detailed in my first post on this thread. Again, I don't know if this was a manufactured general construct they chose to 'show' me because I am a journo - or because its what they truly believe. I was quite blatant about the disgusting service I've experienced from Sentech, with them - but they made no real responsive comment in this regard.
(Mention was made elsewhere in passing, about meetings having taken place with Sentech, but unfortunately I didn't pursue this interesting nugget of info)

They also professed to - as I said in my first post - not pay much attention to this forum, and used the words 'a minority' very specifically. Oddly enough, just like various Sentech PR people have, in the media, at various points.

I know there's an online presence of WBS personnel, mostly on IRC (and here as well) - but again, this appeared to be 'news' to the people when I mentioned it. (Although again, I don't know how much of their reaction was 'reality' and 'true' - versus their desire to present a standard corporate 'we're unaware of this and its not official' reaction to a journalist.

From having had a LOT of hands-on experience with Sentech and its 'service', I watched as what I interpreted as a fairly dismissive approach towards consumers needing far more than 3gigs as a norm, began being raised more and more, during the discussion.
I tried various tacks to see how flexible they were on this issue, but the general response was by turns unconcerned and almost shocked at the repeated statements by me to the effect that a mere 3 gigs usage was nowhere near sufficient or acceptable as a norm.
This is the point where chief technical officer Parvin airily dismissed the 'need' for more than 3 gigs by anyone as being basically unreasonable. I did notice that all heads turned to him, each time it was raised by me. He spoke, they quieted.

While treading the dodgy path of sniffing them out for a possible mutually useful arrangement - yet wanting to confront some of the things they seemed to think were fine, and which I did not accept at all. I knew that I was in a priviliged position, and should ask all the things that other forumites would ask, if they were in the same situation..
I tried pushing and asking, for instance 'If you're putting a 3 gig cap in place - what's the difference then between you and ADSL? You're not offering anything that doesnt already exist.' (The 'mobility' angle was floated in reply to this.)

As it stands now, I have the spare cash to enjoy a brief experiment. So I bought the modem unit, and paid for a couple of months in advance, and I'll enjoy the current apparently 'uncapped' service up until it starts to suck, thereafter, I'll cancel. No problem. To me, the money outlay is worth it to have even a month or two of vaguely decent speeds, after most of this year whining and bitching at Sentech.

So IBurst is my brief Xmas present to myself. :)

As for the 'buy back modem'policy - while signing papers, I asked, and watched as one of the staffers carefully took the contract and peered at the fine writing on the back, before eventually announcing that 'theres a seven day period in which you can return it'. So I don't hold out too much hope in getting a return on my outlay. I dont care really. I've waved goodbye to the money I've spent, and am now briefly a user of both Sentech AND IBurst.

Like I said, the instant that IBurst begin to suck, I'm gone - and will return to the fraudulently slow bad 24/7 slow-modem service of Sentech. Thereafter, I'm watching the market for the next better alternative to appear, and do the same testing approach, until I'm sure its decent, then I'll cancel Sentech finally.

Sentech have taught me that throwing good money after bad, and wasting energy and time in trying to 'make an incompetent and blatantly profiteering company see its errors and fix its bad service' - just doesn't work. Ever.
If IBurst turn into Sentech, then bye bye instantly..

So a few grand has gotten me some speeds for now, but I'm ready to cancel and deprive them of any further money. ("Loyalty" is for my friends and family, not for a company I'm paying for a service. Any attempts to suggest that 'loyalty' is important, is a con-job by the company that wants your money)

Sentech have also taught me that - even if there are decent, hardworking, genuinely friendly folks working down on the customer support and tech-levels - it means absolutely nothing, if the top management structure have their own agenda and policy.

So I know that Sentech (and IBurst) both have decent folks working for them, techies doing their best and help-centre folks fielding calls - but ultimately the only thing that counts, is what is decided 'is best for the Customer' in the boardrooms.

So any Iburst workers reading this, don't make the mistake of taking anything said here personally - and that its understood that there is a BIG difference between the individual worker trying to provide a good service, and doing a decent job - and the upper management who make the Policy of the company.
So you Iburst (and you Sentech people) reading the forum, there are those of us who know that you are in the middle, between a rock and a hard place. Its upper management who are at fault, not you. So rest easy :P

There do appear to be a couple of options looming on the horizon in the new year, and time will tell whether any of them are worth repeating this somewhat expensive but worth-it-to-me experiment.

I hope this clarifies some of the issues for the various folks looking to make their own decision call on which way to go, or how to proceed viz 24/7 net.

My choice was 'expend money and get Iburst now up until their cap/bandwidth management' phase kills their service, (or reputation) - and if it does - then cancel. Put modem in cupboard & return to stinky Sentech. Await new wireless companies.'

But that's just me, and not for everyone.

So IBurst will have got a few grand for the modem and a couple of months fees, nothing more. If enough people operate in a similar way, then IBurst will fail, or be forced to alter their policy.
(According to person X at Iburst, that I spoke with while doing the signup, this IS how the majority of their new customers are doing it. 30 day contracts. Very few have done the 'two year' thing.
Good.
We'll see how IBurst behaves with a possible mass withdrawal of their incoming monthly finances, the instant their service becomes capped and/or slows down.
Unlike Sentech, this might even force them to change their policy as their profits drop below projected targets.

There you have it.

THX1138 A.K.A LoneGunman
(Sentech's favourite customer, now also IBursts favourite customer.)

I won't be posting again, unless I run across something else of use for forumites, as in this case. So hold off on wasting energy on flames :P )

Hope everyone's well..

*goes back into the mists of online activity*
 
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