What if Apartheid didn't do it?

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Cara

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One reason the apartheid-did-it explanation doesn’t completely satisfy is that South Africans are not unique in the world in having gone through long periods of disenfranchisement, oppression and collective violence.

The Poles and the Chinese, the Koreans and the Rwandans, the French and Vietnamese and Russians and Algerians: pretty much every nation on the planet outside North America spent some portion of the 20th century on its knees, the victim of catastrophic violence directed either by local tyrants or by foreign overlords.

And yet only a handful has levels of violence that even approach ours.
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http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.aspx?articleid=319876&area=/insight/insight__comment_and_analysis/

This is an extract from Antony Altbeker’s new book, A Country at War with Itself (Jonathan Ball Publishers). Altbeker is a senior researcher at the Institute for Security Studies

Altbeker provides some interesting points to think about.
 
OMG! You cant say that!

This entire country is built on "its apartheid's fault". By proving that it may not be will throw a spanner in the works so big...
 
Leaving the problem instead of doing something early has no doubt made the problem much worse.

How about bringing back the right to self-defense, specifically the use of deadly force against an intruder in your home? If you have an intruder in your home you should be entitled to kill them first and ask questions later, without even having to consider whether they might be armed.

Maybe we now need mandatory life sentences for any crime involving violence.

I'm wary of allowing further intrusive measures from government because it is hard to get rid of these later and they're easily abused.
 
Build many more prisons because a society with high levels of violence is a society with too many people who are too willing to hurt others. We need to get them off the streets because they deserve it and because their behaviour is making the use of violence acceptable to others.
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And just who is going to pay for this? Make them work for their keep, and contribution back to society. It might just help with skills developement.
 
noxibox said:
Leaving the problem instead of doing something early has no doubt made the problem much worse.

How about bringing back the right to self-defense, specifically the use of deadly force against an intruder in your home? If you have an intruder in your home you should be entitled to kill them first and ask questions later, without even having to consider whether they might be armed.
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It should not come to that. I should not have a reason to defend myself in the first place. Bottom line: there should be no intruder.

There are violent robberies in SA because:
- it pays off
- the police don't care
- the government don't care
- they have no alternative viable source of income
 
Skinner said:
It should not come to that. I should not have a reason to defend myself in the first place. Bottom line: there should be no intruder.

There are violent robberies in SA because:
- it pays off
- the police don't care
- the government don't care
- they have no alternative viable source of income
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Spot on about the fact that we shouldn't have to watch over our shoulder the whole time but ...

I can't agree with that last point, for locals at least. Maybe for illegal immigrants who don't have work permits but SA's economy is strong and our local guys are far from starving and destitute (and even if they were I don't think being poor necessarily forces people into crime). I think that maybe there isn't an easy source of income which crime is.
 
sigh one can only wonder where all the people go and what they do that crosses into our borders.
 
Simple, our society is still stuck in the middle ages IMO. This is no disrespect to anybody in particular but our society enjoys the benefits of technology, but it is governed by medieval cultural practices and norms.

There is no denying it. Until we don't grow past it we will be stuck in this problematic situation.
 
I have often wondered why SA is so violent. I have been to other war torn countries and you can actually walk around and feel safe.

Perhaps community is still intact there and not here. ???
 
antowan said:
Simple, our society is still stuck in the middle ages IMO
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antowan - have we ever left it in the first place or was we left to believe there was some advancement since the past "dark/middle" ages ?
 
vespax said:
I have often wondered why SA is so violent. I have been to other war torn countries and you can actually walk around and feel safe.

Perhaps community is still intact there and not here. ???
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Wondered the same thing myself and don't think there are simple answers but I would bet that it partly comes down to a lack of policing. People do something small and get away with it and soon violent crime becomes an option to get what you want.

But I still have hope that we can swing the tide, although it will take a huge effort and a large amount of resources from government. Our best chance is to make sure that Mbeki doesn't serve a third term because he's too busy flitting around globe to put in the hard work in SA.
 
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My mother was a teenager in the 1960's Poland and believe me she and her friends would regulary hitch hike. In fact it was a very common practice, you had kids as young
as 15 hitch hiking and you never heard of a case or rape, molestation or murder. It was just so rare. Sure you got the occasional psycho - in one case a guy murdered
a child not far from where my great-grandmother lived - but for the loss of 21% of the population to German barbaism of WW2 and subsequent Russian BS, Poland WAS and is currently VERY safe. In fact all of Europe - except for maybe the Balkans (due to war
and maybe now Kosovar drug dealing) is safe. It must be something else which is causing the high levels of violence in SA, maybe its the water?
 
PeterCH said:
My mother was a teenager in the 1960's Poland and believe me she and her friends would regulary hitch hike. In fact it was a very common practice, you had kids as young
as 15 hitch hiking and you never heard of a case or rape, molestation or murder. It was just so rare. Sure you got the occasional psycho - in one case a guy murdered
a child not far from where my great-grandmother lived - but for the loss of 21% of the population to German barbaism of WW2 and subsequent Russian BS, Poland WAS and is currently VERY safe. In fact all of Europe - except for maybe the Balkans (due to war
and maybe now Kosovar drug dealing) is safe. It must be something else which is causing the high levels of violence in SA, maybe its the water?
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What about Belarus :p
 
I think it's the 'chip on the shoulder' problem. I've been to Luanda and I can tell you that it's actually a very peaceful place. I mean they have just come out of civil war and almost everyone is of the belief that they must rebuild. Sure they have their problems (and lots of them) but they are generally positive with a desire to move on and prosper and nobody blames anyone for their woes either.

The amazing thing that I found there was that almost every single person I met was very anti guns and violence.
 
alf101 said:
We should reopen Robbin Island and send all our hardcore prisoners there.
Then we put cameras all over the island and make a reality show.
Divide the prisoners into tribes, give them challenges to do.

The tribe that loses the challenge, get`s executed at the end of the week. (this will take care of overpopulation as well).
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Its a bit Escape from New York'ish dont you think? :)
 
alf101 said:
Liked that Movie.:)

It`ll be a great show.
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But who's going to play Snake Plissken? Expecting Kurt Russell to do it is like expecting Chuck Norris to do a roundhouse kick. :eek:
 
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