What is the difference between...

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johnnygirl

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What is the difference between a web designer / web developer / web architect? And do i really need all these people on a job? Okay, granted it is quite a technical site i want done, but i'm told about ALL these experts, and i'm quoted R200,000 + to do this, and i'm thinking: ****!!! With that kind of money i can "employ" a bloody good developer and pay him R40,000 a month for 6 months, and have more control over the end product. Or is it stupid to have only 1 person developing a big website?
 
All of those roles could be done by one person.
What each of those people will do, is:
  • Design the workings of the website (what should happen if people click where)
  • Design how it should look like, and where all the menus will be located for easy navigation.
  • The guy actually putting everything together according to the design specification.
What is nice, is that you'll get a complete set of documents describing all the detail that went into the project. Makes it easier to change something afterwards.
The bad thing is price. You have to pay for three people (plus maybe a project manager).

One person can do it. But it might take longer (or not, depending on skill), and you might not get documentation. Requirements should be clear in any case, so that you are protected and get what you pay for, and the developer is protected as he only do what is needed.

It's up to you in the end. If you plan to make money off the website, then do it properly (just my opinion).
 
The roles have become blurred but in essence most web sites only need 2 positions (although they can be done by one person who has the necessary talent in both areas): a developer and a designer.

The coding is done by the developer, the graphic & color design is done by the designer. In an ideal world the designer would also do the HTML (with input from the developer) but finding designers who understand HTML and can produce standards compliant output in this country is a little tricky.

A quality product will require them to work well together and understand the roles and boundaries of each others knowledge.

In the rare circumstances where you wish to create a high performance web application you may want to add in a developer specializing in javascript as well.
 
johnnygirl said:
What is the difference between a web designer / web developer / web architect? And do i really need all these people on a job? Okay, granted it is quite a technical site i want done, but i'm told about ALL these experts, and i'm quoted R200,000 + to do this, and i'm thinking: ****!!! With that kind of money i can "employ" a bloody good developer and pay him R40,000 a month for 6 months, and have more control over the end product. Or is it stupid to have only 1 person developing a big website?
Click to expand...
Excellent question.

I spent an inordinate amount of time researching this very question when I put my site up. I wanted to know where I fit in, and the answer is a fuzzy one.

As icyrus said, the lines are blurry. A Web Designer will do the front-end - what the visitor sees. This generally includes styling, graphics, and layout. A Web Developer will do the functional aspect/backend, including (in most cases) database, server-side code, front-end functionality (where needed, and it is usually the case), and other bits and pieces. The Web Developer also needs to make the code he/she has written fit in with what the Web Designer has created. A Web Architect is a glorified name for a person that ties the two together - almost the Project Manager, if you will, while also concentrating on the design as a whole.

You can get one person to do the job (I am one of them :p), but let me say this: a developer's design hardly ever matches that of a designer's design. There are few and far between that can handle both sides of the coin perfectly, and if you take on one person you may well have to compromise one way or the other. With it being a technical web application, you would do well to hire a designer for the initial design, and then hand that to a developer and let rip. Just be sure to specify in detail what you expect from each, and yes - documentation is one of those, and from both sides. The designer needs to supply a layout document, detailing the design aspects (CSS styles, etc.), and the developer needs to document everything else. :)

Out of interest, can you share what you have in mind, and how you plan to go about it? I'd love to know what you were quoted R200k for.
 
gosh, i learnt more from these 4 posts, than i did from hours of questioning the consultants! thanx a million, guys.

Raithlin, what i didn't say, was that i was quoted R250,000 - R1m, from different firms. Technically, the site will function like blueworld.co.za or myspace. it is obviously a social network, but with a huge strategic difference. the functionality, however, will be 80% similar to the 2 i quoted here. and i'm super cautious now about who to deal with, because i've already burnt my fingers with the previous developers, and it cost me thousands and thousands in what i now refer to as "school fees". so now i think the safest way to go is to get one of the big guns on the job, someone like cambrient, and ultimately that's gonna cost more.
 
Sounds good. Best of luck to you, and whatever you end up paying, I hope that you get your money's worth! If you intend to make money from your web application, then you need to be sure of the end result. Take your time choosing the next development house, and remember that big doesn't always mean better.

Oh, and the forum is here to assist too. ;)
 
spend a lot of money on the coding of the site, as that will be most important, IMHO.

Oh and I can do graphics and html too, but not that kind of scripting.

Good luck!
 
you know, i was considering taking that money and just employing maybe 1 or 2 ****-hot developers on a contract basis. but now i'm leaning towards going with a big/proven firm, where they can offer all sorts of added goodies, like taking care of the hosting, marketing, etc. so i can sit back and worry about the fluffy things in life. and besides, i worry that if i employ a freelancer to do it, he may turn "tantrum" on me (because i can be a little difficult), and then i'm back to square one.

do you guys know of cambrient in jhb? and would you say they are one of the best?
 
Um, I don't know them - doesn't mean a thing though. I do my own websites, so I never had to go and find one.

What does your pro/con list look like, and why do you think a big company would be better? I would look to several companies - one for hosting (ok, maybe this could be handled by the developer), one for marketing, etc. - that way I could pick the best, and get the best return for my cash. Big companies often end up as Jacks - you want experts on your side.
 
i think a big company would be best, it's hard to find people who know what they are doing on your own.
 
Keeper said:
i think a big company would be best, it's hard to find people who know what they are doing on your own.
Click to expand...

I know what I'm doing on my own... ;)

Seriously though, those roles are pretty much the same. What you should look for ideally is someone who can provide you with a multi-tier application:
  • Data Access Tier - All access to the database is restricted to this tier. Managing your connections is isolated to this one component.
  • Business Logic Tear - All business logic is handled in this tier. Calculations, algorithms, etc. are all executed here and the results are passed on to the Data Access Tier.
  • Presentation Tier - This tier represents the front-end of your web application. The content and design should be separated by using CSS, ideally. No business logic or data access is handled on this tier.

By splitting your application into the multiple tiers, you can outsource any updates to qualified developers at a later stage. You can even just hire a graphic artist to create the images for your site and update the site's presentation tier without getting confused about any unnecessary scripting on the front-end. If you can specify more details as to the "technicality" of the site, maybe I can provide you with more info?
 
I as an individual can script/program and design look & feels for websites. I am however stronger on the programming side.

I would never take on a project like the one you want done by myself. It would just take too long and by the time the deadline approaches more often than not the original specs would have been changed making the project more expensive and time consuming. This leads to the reason why many projects are behind schedule and way over budget.

If you have the resources, I would employ 2 or 3 individuals to complete this project. I use the word 'complete' very loosely as a web application of this magnitude usually requires constant maintenance.
 
Only read the rest of the posts now - the scope of the site is pretty huge. You would be lucky to get it done in 6 months with 2 full-time developers employed. Like already mentioned in this thread, scope-creep is the major downfall of most projects like these. Proper planning and specification would be of utmost importance to get this done within time and budget...
 
Heh, like I said, the forumites are here to assist. :)

Keeper said:
...it's hard to find people who know what they are doing on your own.
Click to expand...
Unless you hover around this forum. Quite a few of us are adept at this sort of thing.
Syzygy78 said:
If you have the resources, I would employ 2 or 3 individuals to complete this project.
Click to expand...
Agreed, but it depends on how big, and how fast you want it done.
 
Raithlin said:
Unless you hover around this forum. Quite a few of us are adept at this sort of thing.
Click to expand...
Perhaps something like this?

<forum id="frmMyBB" class="forum_class" onmouseover="ShowAdeptAtHtml(this);" onmouseover="HideAdeptAtHtml();" />
 
FarligOpptreden said:
Perhaps something like this?

<forum id="frmMyBB" class="forum_class" onmouseover="ShowAdeptAtHtml(this);" onmouseover="HideAdeptAtHtml();" />
Click to expand...
LOL Not quite... :D

I prefer unobtrusive script to be honest. Oh, and you'd want that 2nd onmouseover to be an onmouseout. ;)

@JohnnyGirl: Perhaps you might consider putting a team together from the forum? You'd have people you can trust, at least... :p
 
Make sure that you know exactly what you want. If you are not technical minded, take somebody you trust with you when you negotiate the specifications. It is important to know what technology you are going to use (PHP, ASP, AJAX, JSP, Ruby, combination of all, etc).

Designing the layout of a website is a study on its own, and I would recommend that you get a professional for this. The look and feel of the website can either make or break you. There is a fine line between easy to use and useless. Facebook can become very slow depending on the additional apps that are installed.
 
Raithlin said:
LOL Not quite... :D

I prefer unobtrusive script to be honest. Oh, and you'd want that 2nd onmouseover to be an onmouseout. ;)

@JohnnyGirl: Perhaps you might consider putting a team together from the forum? You'd have people you can trust, at least... :p
Click to expand...


Oops, yeah. Typed it very quickly so didn't notice the typo! I stand ashamed now...
 
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