When does a hobby turn obsessive?

[Foxhound5366]

Generally I don't have this issue but I know plenty of people with spending issues on hobbies. However there was one game I got hooked on during covid that was a Pay to Win style mobile game that was very expensive. Ended up dropping about 3K on it over 18 months and looking back every cent was a waste. That game was a bottomless pit for very little value in the end. My spend was minor compared to the whales of the game. The top spenders were dropping thousands of dollars a month to maintain top position. Read stuff online about people in Europe etc who spent 100K+ in Euro on the game and realized after family interventions they had to stop and then they were weeping at how much they wasted on it. Games can be designed to be crazy addictive and the loot boxes can be very much like gambling addiction. I'll never play a game like that again.

I play Clash of Clans and have started paying for the monthly R110/month pass, which i justify because it supports the developers and gives me a lot of perks that save me time in the game world. If I find myself spending anything more I'd rather drop off, but for now it's fun.

 

[bwana]

As soon as you have to "justify" something, it's probably already a problem.

 

[Foxhound5366]

As soon as you have to "justify" something, it's probably already a problem.

So you just do things in your life with no justification. Just every day is a surprise hmm.

 

[Nerfherder]

It's a fine line, isn't it? One moment you're just saving for a nice camera, and the next moment you're trying to justify a new lens that costs more than a few of your bond payments.

I've been considering just how pervasive this normalisation of obsessive behaviour has become, with vastly different expressions of the same basic inner drive:
- Coffee machine and technique upgrades
- Mountain bike upgraders
- Camera equipment upgraders
- Car upgraders
- Yacht upgraders
- Cellphone upgraders
- Audiophiles
- PC gamers
- Soccer fans
- Formula One fans

You get the idea. There's a slippery slope in every single hobby or pursuit: the communities you might join might be vastly different and look down on other rival communities, but progressing further in them can entail investment of everything you have (both time and money). Sounds a bit like a drug addiction, and becomes just as damaging once you lose yourself in it.

Why this feels particularly dangerous to me is we don't have any guardrails. A barkeeper might tell you to leave after you get so blind drunk that you're disturbing the other patrons, but who is going to advise you to not spend R40 000 on an espresso machine, or R300 000 on a home audio system?

And how do you choose anyway? Wouldn't everyone want the best car, best computer, best camera and best sound system .... if only they could afford it all?

And maybe that's the ultimate guardrail then: because so few people get to explore the most expensive options in even a single hobby, never mind many ... the joy really has to be more about choosing something that gives you the most enjoyment and then making the smallest possible enhancements to extend the enjoyment you get out of that into the rest of your life.

Very zen. And yet not something we see much of in society. Not in marketing, not in public discourse.

The two questions it leaves me with is: how can one be satisfied with what you have when there's always better? And ... should you be?

These days I don't even walk into Exclusive Books because the sheer number of rabbit holes to lose myself in is overwhelming. And reading books is so 1980s (I jest ... but only a little).

The older I get, the more I find myself appreciating simplicity. Quality absolutely too, but not at the cost of stress or even financial pressure.

I take my hat off to you if you've got hobbies you're obsessive about and can pour yourself into, but just look after yourself and your loved ones first ok? People before things, always.

Always.

Don't forget people who ride horses...


The best thing is when there is a massive barrier to entry. Like with boats and such... so many hobbies I just cant even start getting into because I don't have a pot of cash to throw at it.

I think the best thing has been youtubers... so many of them are getting really honest and are like "your aeropress is fine, don't get this" - which is what most people need to hear

 

[Baxteen]

I played competative Magic the gathering.
that was expensive, I sold everything and paid for my wedding in full.
but I stopped playing years before that.
right now the closest I have to a hobby that is bordering on obsession is Vaping.
I have more than one device, more than one flavour, and more than one strenght on my desk right now.
I am looking at importing a high end German engineered device for myself as a treat, and I do get given grief about how many devices I have by people in my life often

 

[maumau]

So you just do things in your life with no justification. Just every day is a surprise hmm.

Correct.

Who needs to justify purchases - or anything else really? We work so we can have nice things or do enjoyable things and if you're spending too much that's just plain irresponsible.

 

[Foxhound5366]

Correct.

No need to justify your purchases. We work so we can buy nice things and if you're spending too much that's just plain irresponsible.

If you don't need to justify your purchases, then does "too much" exist? Surely that's part of a framework of justification?

 

[Heisenborg]

I played competative Magic the gathering.
that was expensive, I sold everything and paid for my wedding in full.
but I stopped playing years before that.
right now the closest I have to a hobby that is bordering on obsession is Vaping.
I have more than one device, more than one flavour, and more than one strenght on my desk right now.
I am looking at importing a high end German engineered device for myself as a treat, and I do get given grief about how many devices I have by people in my life often

Not a hobby. Cancer and god knows what else inducing, disgusting habit. Seek help

 

[maumau]

If you don't need to justify your purchases, then does "too much" exist? Surely that's part of a framework of justification?

"Too much" may well exist as an expression or even a state where you'd like to give "some" away but otherwise what's wrong with having lots, and lots, and lots, and lots ........... of what you want. Assuming you are not depriving a loved one?

It may be wasteful but we're living a hard life with few enough pleasures.

Come to think of it - are we talking only about too much of a good thing? Or can there be too much of a bad thing?

 

[Foxhound5366]

"Too much" may well exist as an expression or even a state where you'd like to give "some" away but otherwise what's wrong with having lots, and lots, and lots, and lots ........... of what you want. Assuming you are not depriving a loved one?

It may be wasteful but we're living a hard life with few enough pleasures.

Come to think of it - are we talking only about too much of a good thing? Or can there be too much of a bad thing?

I guess you could classify drug abuse or physical abuse as a hobby for some, which could also turn obsessive ... so yes? Technically any cent you spend rather than investing into an ETF for your kids is depriving them of future money, so I'm not even sure your new guardrail of depriving loved ones is too helpful.

Of course it's ALSO too easy to just say "If it feels wrong for you, then it's wrong even if it's right for somebody else." That implies we know ourselves perfectly, or that we're right at least more times than we're wrong.

 

[maumau]

I guess you could classify drug abuse or physical abuse as a hobby for some, which could also turn obsessive ... so yes? Technically any cent you spend rather than investing into an ETF for your kids is depriving them of future money, so I'm not even sure your new guardrail of depriving loved ones is too helpful.

Of course it's ALSO too easy to just say "If it feels wrong for you, then it's wrong even if it's right for somebody else." That implies we know ourselves perfectly, or that we're right at least more times than we're wrong.

I mean depriving loved ones now not saving money to help them in the years to come.

Ideally parents bear in mind their children's future without having to deny themselves.

 

[Foxhound5366]

I mean depriving loved ones now not saving money to help them in the years to come.

Ideally parents bear in mind their children's future without having to deny themselves.

Come on maumau, just be frank about it: there is no right answer. As a parent you're entitled to spoil yourself, just like you're entitled to not spend every waking moment doting on your spawn. But chances are you will feel guilty sometimes, as you will about many things related to your children, and then you'll drown it out by saying at least you're doing a better job than your parents. And go eat some icecream.

 

[dabean]

For me my major hobbies have been: RC Helicopters, Astronomy, and FPV Racing drones.

I love the learning curve. Once I see that return on investment drops off (and I can appreciate the highest level) I lose interest.

 

[dabean]

Come on maumau, just be frank about it: there is no right answer. As a parent you're entitled to spoil yourself, just like you're entitled to not spend every waking moment doting on your spawn. But chances are you will feel guilty sometimes, as you will about many things related to your children, and then you'll drown it out by saying at least you're doing a better job than your parents. And go eat some icecream.

A hobby by definition should be something that loses money.

Otherwise it’s a job.

 

[Foxhound5366]

A hobby by definition should be something that loses money.

Otherwise it’s a job.

Yoga in a park is a nice free hobby. And Netflix binging (not counting your monthly subscription). Neither are great jobs.

I think we all know it's gonna run into money, we're kinda asking here where the line should be drawn.

 

[dabean]

Yoga in a park is a nice free hobby. And Netflix binging (not counting your monthly subscription). Neither are great jobs.

I think we all know it's gonna run into money, we're kinda asking here where the line should be drawn.

If yoga in the park cuts down on the happiness of others should be the line.

 

[Foxhound5366]

This video has a boatload of food for thought, which is pretty relevant to this thread:

 

[chrisc]

I have several,audiophile friends. Some have spent over R3m on gear.
The average spend to get something worthwhile seems to be about R600k
But there is a thriving used gear market and you can get as good items for less than half

It's surprising to me how infrequently some people,listen to music. With Tidal and Spotify, there is an endless source of music

A good example of a pricey audio component is a Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC selling for R250k

 

[Zellephant]

I must say OP, I have often had similar thoughts in the past, especially when I was younger and a bit unsure of myself.

In many ways, I had a somewhat blessed childhood/youth. The kind where you only really in your early 20s start realising a lot of things you thought were perfectly normal - are actually a luxury. But, contrary to what one might believe, that actually grounded me a lot when it comes to hobbies. It made me an “experience over things” person first and foremost. So to me, it’s important that the tool does the job, reliably, and brings you joy while doing it. It doesn’t matter if it’s the most expensive model, or some rusty hand me down, as long as it adds instead of detracts for the experience. Sometimes, that does mean needing to save, or dig deep and buy something really expensive, but you only buy once, and will end up handing it down to your kids, but other times it really doesn’t. If figuring out how to pay for the fancy tool is standing in the way of actually doing the thing, and a more affordable option would let you get on with it, and put a smile on your face, then have at it with the cheaper stuff.

Also, amongst a few other, I’m really glad mountainbiking became my primary hobby. It’s a hobby absolutely filled to the brim with posers on equipment that Olympic medalists can only dream of, but they really doesn’t matter much, no amount of money spent on the gear can make you any better at actually doing the thing. The only way to actually progress is to get on you bike and head for the trails. So, for those who know, no one really cares what you ride, we are all out on that trail together enjoying the activity. Whether you are on a R50k bike, or a R250k bike actually makes very little difference. So in that way, it sort of keeps the hobby honest. The only people who actually care about the price tag of your kit, are the posers in the parking lot.

 

[Zellephant]

Tools. Tools. Tools, you must always be checking out the latest, bestest new tools at the hardware store. But... you rather drink lots of whisky/favourite drink to forget your craving after browsing...

But but but, what happens when the whiskey fueled misadventures end up with you and your best mate at the bottom of a bottle of singe malt deciding that converting your garage into a distillery is a brilliant plan, and at 02:30 on Sunday morning your plans are stopped dead in their tracks because you don’t have that one critical tool… best you just buy the tools incase then, so they are always at the ready

I like this idea. I mostly stick to this, except I have been known to snap and put a whole Xbox or laptop onto a credit card before, lol. Also how does a cellphone contract factor in? Technically it's a new tech toy on a loan. Same for car loans.

But yes, I think I'm going to try stick to the principle of hanging on for some personal hobbies until I can just pay for them cash outright.

This is very very very important advice. Never, ever finance a toy/hobby. You only ever finance something if the financial return it will give you is going to be more than the interest on the loan - or, in some very rare cases, there could be a tax benefit to leasing the toys instead of an outright purchase.

I’m telling you this as someone who has learned that the hard way, but also hasn’t had a cellphone contract since about 2012 I think, and have never had vehicle finance in my life.

Making the odd unhedged impulse purchase on your credit card and then settling it the next month before interest comes due though is perfectly fine.

Collecting stuff is a sickness

That it is, and clutter robs one’s life of joy. It’s a never ending fight in our house. I haven’t got a sentimental bone in my body, but my wife attaches sentimentality to everything she touches.

But we regularly actively purge ourselves from our stuff. If you haven’t used it in the past three years, it gets chucked out. If it’s too sentimental to chuck it out, you need to make a strong case to prove it, and then do something with it to give it meaning/pride of place (like frame it and make it part of the decor, repurpose it creatively into something for the kids or something along those lines), otherwise, if it’s just going to sit around and collect dust, it goes. It was hard at first for my wife, but after a couple of rounds, it gets easier, and the home is all the better for it.

(we do make exceptions for high quality tools, and legitimate family heirlooms)

As soon as you have to "justify" something, it's probably already a problem.

Do you mean justify it to yourself? Or justify it to other people?

I think it’s only healthy and rational to need to justify every decision you make to yourself, otherwise we would all just be drifting aimlessly through life.

But agreed, when it comes to hobbies, you shouldn’t need to justify it to anyone. But someone else, especially if they aren’t your spouse or a dependent child living under your roof having a problem with it, and expecting you to justify what you do, doesn’t automatically mean you have a problem.

If you don't need to justify your purchases, then does "too much" exist? Surely that's part of a framework of justification?

Too much is always going to sit somewhere on a sliding scale, and everyone’s balance point will be different.

Come on maumau, just be frank about it: there is no right answer. As a parent you're entitled to spoil yourself, just like you're entitled to not spend every waking moment doting on your spawn. But chances are you will feel guilty sometimes, as you will about many things related to your children, and then you'll drown it out by saying at least you're doing a better job than your parents. And go eat some icecream.

If you feel guilt about practicing a hobby, then there is something wrong. It goes beyond you being allowed to “spoil” yourself. Having a hobby is more than that. It’s about you being a complete and rounded human being. A healthy hobby, should by default also make you a better spouse and parent, because you are a fulfilled person in your own right.

First prize is obviously a hobby that the whole family can join in on, but that isn’t always realistic, and that’s where balance becomes important.

You also need not feel guilty about spending money on yourself or hobbies, because you should rather be investing it for your children’s sake. As long as there is enough provision made for them to complete their educations (within reason), and maybe a little bit of capital for them to have a soft landing into adult life, you have done enough. You should then feel free to spend the rest just as you see fit - whether that’s growing the family trust, or spending it to go chase butterflies in Mongolia with the Lepidoptera society, what you do with your money, is your business.

A hobby by definition should be something that loses money.

Otherwise it’s a job.

What if your hobby is art speculation? Or sports betting?

What if you get really good at your hobby, to the point where people offer to pay you to present a worship or training course etc, but you still keep your day job, and you still enjoy yout hobby?