Where LOTRO got it wrong

I

ironKing

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Don't get me wrong, Im enjoying the game... sort of.

But when it comes right down to it - it just doesn't feel epic enough to approach true LOTR lore.

As my brother said while we were running around doing ridiculous tasks... LOTR is not about killing wights. Neither is it about killing 120 wolves, collecting boar meat or bear hides... COME ON NOW!

When did it ever take a group of beweaponed warriors to kill a single orc, goblin or warg for that matter.

Personally i think they should have concentrated more on killing orcs and goblins in a war of sorts than all this tom-foolery. Instead of a lvl 51 elite orc with 8000 morale - give us 30 hooting, screeching, screaming ugly mugged orcs with pointy swords and armor that we can cut down in swarths (swathes, whatever). Instead of collecting carrots and onions and finding Bamrics lost book on cooking - send us in raiding parties to fight off goblin invasions and orc hordes... and as for there being no ranger class... ok ok admittedly if there had been there would be a million rangers, but still - no ranger class is retarded.

LOTRO is unfortunately a WOW clone, a pretty one, but still a clone. And I hate that I feel compelled to log on everyday to grind a level out.

And as for the weapons and armor - I dont know why we have to run around looking like damn b-grade jokers and fools. There was so much beautifully crafted armor and weapons in the movie trilogy that it SHOCKS me to see how crumby and cartoony LOTRO's goodies are.

thats it, im done... time to login and play some more.
 
Almost all MMORPGs are clones of each other. There are a few exceptions, like EVE or GuildWars, but not many and very few successfuly ones. WoW is famous for doing nothing new, but doing it very well. It's all pretty much start at level 1 killing midges and gradually move up to level XX by killing incrementally bigger midges. Then gather some buddies and go kill the Dragon midge (again and again and again).

My fundamental problem is that nothing changes. Kill Great Dragon Lord Balbombie? Nothing happens and he'll be back this time tomorrow. There is no story development, no progress, nothing. Even quests really don't do anything. Save Babaloo's daughter from the Orc's? Well 10 minutes later he's back at the crossroads having somehow lost her again. And most quests are "go forth and kill X of Y and return to me". Or to be different 'go forth and get me X units of Y (by killing many of Z). This is why you don't have an epic feel to it. You want to be big and important to the world, but so do 19,999 other players on your server. To borrow a phrase ... If everybody is special, then nobody is. PvP holds the promise of something more, but I have yet to see it deliver. (DAoC came close).

But they are addictive.

I really think it's time the industry brought some new life to this Genre.
 
a voice of reason from the darkness...

im in the media industry, shot my first short film (wrote, co-directed, edited and produced it), in web-dev and print mostly, to the point... im writing an epic feel story for an mmorpg... its slow going - but if you are interested in lending a hand - you and i seem to be on the same page. Going to get a forum up for it and try get enough interest on it so that someone takes note.

dont know if it will do any good... its just time for those who want more to start saying it!
 
I think that is what Richard Garriott is focusing on as well. MMORPG's haven't been innovative since Ultima Online (bit of blowing the own horn) and Everquest according to him. Checkout his interviews on Tabula Rasa on G4TV etc. He is trying to break the mold of first generation MMO's.
 
I havent played many MMO's: GW (not really mmo but close enough), i tried WoW official for a day, 9Dragons, Ultima Online, NWN 1 and 2 (also not technically mmo), Dungeons and Dragons Online: Stormreach and a few other free ones...

IMO, Guild Wars is the best for its money... especially since theres no monthly fee

I think for what WoW gives the monthly fee isnt worth it (this is just my opinion, i havent played through the whole thing). I have finished Guild Wars: Prophecies and played a bit of Factions and I'm going to buy it soon along with Nightfall.

DDO (dungeons and dragons online) was sort of a mixture of WoW and GW, but TBH they didnt pull it off very well (they didnt get enough people to play i think), and it also had a monthly fee (same as WoW's).

UO was pretty good, but its just too old now, and too many unbalanced exploits, hehe.

9Dragons + other free ones are just beaten down versions of WoW.

WoW isnt bad, its certainly a lot better than most, but for me, GW is the way to go ^_^
 
thats just the problem with so many MMO's esp. the RPG's -they are all clones, same old grind, same old kill some wasps, collect some berries - oooh epic mission kill a lvl 50 boss surrounded by 3 elites - nothing really groundbreaking

as was mentioned - you just have no feeling of accomplishment - the game world doesnt respond or change

then there are the MMO FPS games - once again clones with nicer interface or graphics... no sense of accomplishment in the grander scale

if only you could meld the two and have a responsive game world that adjusts according to what happens

almost impossible for a number of reasons, but i like to imagine it.

AoC seems to promise some groundbreaking concepts for MMO's - but i suspect that in the end there will still be stupid mission threads or quest chains that have no overall effect in the gaming world.

I will still play AoC - loved the Howard Conan stories
 
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My Solution:

Currently, we have servers with thousands of players on. Every character is a bloody hero wannebee, all are special, hence all all lame.

So, create thousands of servers instead, with no more than 30 players in each. Quests can only be completed once. There should be several classes of players, with most quests requiring a range of classes to complete, or at least 12 players. Also, killing yet another "Evil Owlrat" improves your experience by such a small percentage that it's just lame as opposed, even when all your characters are still at level one, to do quests. There should also be a link of some sort that makes groups level up equally.

One last thing. You should have lives. Three of them. If you are stupid and run into the forest to kill an ogre by yourself, then you die. Be stupid three times and your character is dead. Forever. Start again. Maybe when you get to level 20 you get an extra life or something. But your character must be able to die. For good and forever. It would make you crap your pants a load more when you and your team decide, when you're all at level 40, to do some major hard core quest.

Any other ideas?
 
brevity - you're halfway there...

Some of the threads im writing into my "epic feel mmorpg":

you all start as dirt...
only 1 in 100 players are special
you start being forcable drafted into a war
you have little or no skill - you get 5 points toward whichever weapon you choose
you will "die" in the first encounter - not really die but be knocked out
when you wake depending on how well you did you will be rewarded you also have to choose a wound
everytime you get knocked out or "die" you get to choose a wound - with increasing severity - or choose character death
no level caps - rather skills that can keep going - as you hit certain skill ponts it unlocks new abilities
you cant master every skill set and you have to choose a line, even with in classes - ie. no characters are the same

and a couple other ideas im knocking around - if there are others keen on helping write and contribute - let me know.

if i get enough support and time I will launch a forum.
 
One of the problems with creating a MMORPG that is truly everything we want out of them (think LOTR the book and other major fantasy novels) is that they're simply not sustainable.

If you set out to create completely unique content for everyone you'll need an army of people maintaining and creating new things or to have written some very, very smart GM code.
 
Given - it doesn't have to be the end all - just something dynamic enough to keep you motivated to play. Definately have to be faction based with a large percentage of the gameplay revolving around pvp battles that have some overall effect on the game - think of it as something like BF but where its not endless running over the same maps but a global map with shifting territories that can be taken, fortified, shifting alliances, espionage and counter espionage etc. where your "quests" do not revolve around picking flowers or killing pigs for an NPC - which has NO effect, but quests or missions that are given to you by high ranking players.

In effect a huge hierachy of players working for powerplayers working for the NPC's and the storyline.

Is it possible? In the somewhat mortal words of Twakkie - if you can believe it you can do it... guy!

As to needing an army of people maintaining and creating new things - there are an army of beta testers who would drool over the opp. to play as "godlike" characters who can influence a game, create dynamic content - send other players on fools erands, to their almost certain death against overwhelming odds etc.
 
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I really like the idea of choosing a wound every time you die - your character would be an armless, eyeless scarred up warrior with ultimate sword fighting, kickassness.

Iron King is right, there would be loads of people more than happy to spend their time creating game features, like quests, using an inbuilt programme tool, something like Second Life. Instead of paying monthly sub fees, you buy quests for your team to do. The seller could see as many as he likes for a small fee, restricted by the game company - which in turn would take some of the payment (that's how they cover there been no sub fee). Of course, you would only have to do this much later. Or something like this... but what is certain, there would be people out there who would make this work.
 
Brevity - you damn LEGEND... that is brilliant... absolutely brilliant.

Yeh - my idea was that you start off as a nobody and only have a small chance of becoming a real hero... you're just part of the troops.

First battle - when you're a noob and get your scrawny self conscripted you fight until you get knocked out. When you wake up you can choose a wounds - lose a hand, lose a finger, horribly scarred, lose a leg (below the knee), or injured. Each has a bonus and a drawback. eg.

lose hand (no duel wielding until you get a replacement - eventually get a steel gauntlet or hammer hand to do power punches) but add 5 to skill with one handed
lose a finger (reduces charisma, charm or looks etc) no real bonus
horribly scarred (ugly - but scares enemies)
lose a leg (half run speed - have a peg leg and eventually a steel enchanted leg) powerfull kick as a bonus.
injured (reduce health/vitality/endurance for 1 week game time, locks out certain skills and abilities) upside - no real longterm bad effects

just some idea's off the top of my head... but the wound choices become more severe everytime you get knocked out.

I like the "create quests for money" to regulate paying of quest makers... very nice idea.

ok - i can see that there is some interest... if limited - but at least the ideas are solid. i am going to look into setting up a forum - will post url when its done. brevity - want to moderate? Antithesis - want to be our critic?

without someone to tell us it cant be done - we'll never figure out how to do it.
 
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