Which would you pick?

[Jean Claude Vaaldamme]

I've driven a BMW, a VW and a Chinese car in the last few weeks.

All new models, the BMW is by far and away the best feeling in terms of quality but the worst in terms of tech, the vw is just a smidgen better than the Chinese in terms of quality feeling but only a bit better than the bmw in terms tech.

The Chinese cars are roughly half the price of the vw and a third of the price of the BMW.

So yeah you can't really compare it but the Chinese win on value for money every single time atm.

Tech is not quality, its lipstick on a pig. We all know all the "tech" you can buy at Chinatown and how long that last.
That is exactly how they brainwash people. All kinds of fancy gadgets and BS you don't need, but you can brag about it to your friends.

Yes the Chinese cars are value for money, but only if you look at the short term gratification. Longs term I will still bet on the German cars. That is now long term on a car you buy and long term on the brand.

Playing the stock market can be much better value for money than getting interest in the bank. But the one carries a way bigger risk of going south. Same with the cars. These Chinese cars are a long way from proving themselves reliable as a car and a brand.

This feels like appliances and many other stuff. You can buy the cheap shyte, throw them away after a few years use. Or you buy the expensive Bosch, AEG etc and keep it for years/decades or sell them for some decent money.

I remember a few years back wife was looking at buying another car and she took us to either Haval or Mahindra. Yes the car drove nice and looked OK. Then I started looking closer. Back of back seats looked like they got an 5 year old to staple the upholstery with a staple gun. Window rubbers did not fit properly and looked like they were homemade and cut with a Stanley knife.

 

[ToxicBunny]

Tech is not quality, its lipstick on a pig. We all know all the "tech" you can buy at Chinatown and how long that last.
That is exactly how they brainwash people. All kinds of fancy gadgets and BS you don't need, but you can brag about it to your friends.

Yes the Chinese cars are value for money, but only if you look at the short term gratification. Longs term I will still bet on the German cars. That is now long term on a car you buy and long term on the brand.

Playing the stock market can be much better value for money than getting interest in the bank. But the one carries a way bigger risk of going south. Same with the cars. These Chinese cars are a long way from proving themselves reliable as a car and a brand.

This feels like appliances and many other stuff. You can buy the cheap shyte, throw them away after a few years use. Or you buy the expensive Bosch, AEG etc and keep it for years/decades or sell them for some decent money.

I remember a few years back wife was looking at buying another car and she took us to either Haval or Mahindra. Yes the car drove nice and looked OK. Then I started looking closer. Back of back seats looked like they got an 5 year old to staple the upholstery with a staple gun. Window rubbers did not fit properly and looked like they were homemade and cut with a Stanley knife.

You sound suspiciously like one of those guys who said the same thing about the Koreans 15/20 years ago, and the Japanese 40 or 50 years ago.

BTW, AEG is now basically Electrolux, its not the posch German brand you think it is, its a cheap(ish) brand now.

 

[Speedster]

Tech is not quality, its lipstick on a pig. We all know all the "tech" you can buy at Chinatown and how long that last.
That is exactly how they brainwash people. All kinds of fancy gadgets and BS you don't need, but you can brag about it to your friends.

Yes the Chinese cars are value for money, but only if you look at the short term gratification. Longs term I will still bet on the German cars. That is now long term on a car you buy and long term on the brand.

Playing the stock market can be much better value for money than getting interest in the bank. But the one carries a way bigger risk of going south. Same with the cars. These Chinese cars are a long way from proving themselves reliable as a car and a brand.

This feels like appliances and many other stuff. You can buy the cheap shyte, throw them away after a few years use. Or you buy the expensive Bosch, AEG etc and keep it for years/decades or sell them for some decent money.

I remember a few years back wife was looking at buying another car and she took us to either Haval or Mahindra. Yes the car drove nice and looked OK. Then I started looking closer. Back of back seats looked like they got an 5 year old to staple the upholstery with a staple gun. Window rubbers did not fit properly and looked like they were homemade and cut with a Stanley knife.

Do yourself a favour and take a BYD seal for a test drive

 

[Jean Claude Vaaldamme]

You sound suspiciously like one of those guys who said the same thing about the Koreans 15/20 years ago, and the Japanese 40 or 50 years ago.

BTW, AEG is now basically Electrolux, its not the posch German brand you think it is, its a cheap(ish) brand now.

Yes a Bentley is basically a Polo
A Range Rover is basically a Tata
Ferrari is/was a Fiat

 

[ToxicBunny]

Yes a Bentley is basically a Polo
A Range Rover is basically a Tata
Ferrari is/was a Fiat

Way to miss the point entirely, but that's not a surprise really.

 

[Jean Claude Vaaldamme]

Do yourself a favour and take a BYD seal for a test drive

Geez at R1-R1.2 bar I would hope its great quality. Don't know where that fits into the argument.

 

[Speedster]

Geez at R1-R1.2 bar I would hope its great quality. Don't know where that fits into the argument.

You were saying build quality/finishing on Chinese is poor.

 

[ToxicBunny]

You were saying build quality/finishing on Chinese is poor.

To be brutal, build quality on bmws is actually pretty piss poor as well.

The door pulls on the inside of my 320d disintegrated into sticky messes after a few years, and it's a known problem with bmw in general that they have not fixed in over a decade.

 

[Jean Claude Vaaldamme]

You were saying build quality/finishing on Chinese is poor.

No I said you get what you pay for. You not getting a VW/BMW/Merc quality if you pay half or 2/3 of the price.
If those guys made such huge profits for the same quality parts/workmanship/materials then they could easily drop prices and drive the Chinese out the market.
Their cars are more expensive for a reason.

 

[Pax]

Where is the line when 'tech' just become unnecessary gimmicks?

My cars both can park themself. I think it crossed the line already. Why can I control my BM from my cell phone? Gimmick. So, you say the Chinese cars have even more of this 'tech'!?

Maybe ABS and stability control was enough 'tech'?

 

[Splinter]

No I said you get what you pay for. You not getting a VW/BMW/Merc quality if you pay half or 2/3 of the price.
If those guys made such huge profits for the same quality parts/workmanship/materials then they could easily drop prices and drive the Chinese out the market.
Their cars are more expensive for a reason.

You refuse to get the point. The factual point.

 

[Splinter]

Where is the line when 'tech' just become unnecessary gimmicks?

My cars both can park themself. I think it crossed the line already. Why can I control my BM from my cell phone? Gimmick. So, you say the Chinese cars have even more of this 'tech'!?

Maybe ABS and stability control was enough 'tech'?

You now have a BMW that you can cont....

Enough. Another sad troll

 

[Pax]

You now have a BMW that you can cont....

Enough. Another sad troll

Jealousy makes one nasty......

I recall my first car had central locking. One could sit centrally in the car and reach all doors to unlock them. Now, I can open windows from another town. I really NEED that! (Not)!

 

[RedViking]

Lol, how did we get from cheap Chinese cars to Mercs?

 

[Pax]

Lol, how did we get from cheap Chinese cars to Mercs?




View attachment 1873867

Mercs, BMs, Jaguars.....cheap cars, starting from a mere R800k. Problem is most people are poor.

Jesting aside, to give perspective, when I had my first decent job, still before academic qualifications were finished, a Corolla (then a smallish but decent car) cost about 8 - 12 month's salary. What would a e.g. Polo now cost compared to a 20 year matriculant's salary, say, as I was then, a government employee?

Cars have become hellishly expensive. Young people must really battle to afford anything half decent.

I think we are forced to pay for gimmicks which make up a lot of unnecessary cost.

 

[ToxicBunny]

Mercs, BMs, Jaguars.....cheap cars, starting from a mere R800k. Problem is most people are poor.

Jesting aside, to give perspective, when I had my first decent job, still before academic qualifications were finished, a Corolla (then a smallish but decent car) cost about 8 - 12 month's salary. What would a e.g. Polo now cost compared to a 20 year matriculant's salary, say, as I was then, a government employee?

Cars have become hellishly expensive. Young people must really battle to afford anything half decent.

I think we are forced to pay for gimmicks which make up a lot of unnecessary cost.

Bog standard entry level polo will hit a junior for probably 2 - 3 years salary at least assuming they start off at around the national median salary.

 

[SauRoNZA]

Ok, let's know how many Mercs of 'kak' quality you've owned? None of mine ever was of 'kak' quality. Many other brands I had can however be described as such, not any Merc, Bm or Volvo I owned though.

...............And 12.5 l/100km.....a 8 cylinder V8 with carburettors I must assume, or you have a fuel leak somewhere.

"You are still not comparing like for like.". So, if I may not compare compact 1500cc turbo petrol cars, what would in your mind be 'like for like'?

And how many Chinese cars have you owned?

I wouldn’t dare to argue the Germans aren’t better…the problem is they are double the price and that difference in overall quality is at most 5% not the 100% people so desperately tell themselves to justify how much they over spent.

The point of difference isn’t nearly what you think it is…and there are plenty of Chinese cars running around with high mileage.

Ironically if there’s one German brand that seems to cost people a hell of a lot of money just out of warranty it’s Mercedes as my personal direct experience has shown with a number of different family members.

Volvo has effectively been all Chinese for a number of years already. So has Smart but people keep buying them no problem under historic brand illusion.

 

[SauRoNZA]

Ooooh. Either my writing skills or your reading skills need some work. I never alluded to there only being one Merc in my frame of reference. I thought it was abundantly clear that I have a rather wide field of experience.

As for pics, please be patient. If I feel to bother to satisfy your 'Thomas syndrome', I'll get the owner.....in a town about 150k from me, to send me pics.....but to what purpose, I must ponder!

They live on the moon?

I thought you had personal and direct access?

 

[SauRoNZA]

I currently drive a BMW, but dont suffer from any superiority complex over the new upstarts.

I have also read a LOT of Chinese-brand reviews lately, and I can tell you a common them is the testers comparing them to their MUCH more expensive German competitors - and almost without fail yhey sre saying the quality is on par.

Its hard for them to address your only real point - that of longevity.

Well, my brother in law just told me has done 50 000kms, in a year and a half, with his Haval.

No issues at all.

So that seems pretty good to me.

I must say your comments about looking at the Haval knowing you are a die hard BMW man is one of the real about turns showing just how far they’ve come.

No German car does even 200,000km without major failure so arguing longevity there is pure crazy.

If someone used the Japanese as a reference for longevity I can still sort of go for it but these days it’s very model dependent since very little is still genuinely Japanese and they aren’t entirely full proof any more either.

No modern car really is, there simply is too much going on.

And that’s okay.

 

[ToxicBunny]

I must say your comments about looking at the Haval knowing you are a die hard BMW man is one of the real about turns showing just how far they’ve come.

No German car does even 200,000km without major failure so arguing longevity there is pure crazy.

If someone used the Japanese as a reference for longevity I can still sort of go for it but these days it’s very model dependent since very little is still genuinely Japanese and they aren’t entirely full proof any more either.

No modern car really is, there simply is too much going on.

And that’s okay.

Hell I'm contemplating a new Chinese bakkie in the new year.

American Co-developed engine, European gearbox, and American transfer case and 4x4 system and Bosch electrical system. So yeah it's a Chinese bakkie in name but the bits you genuinely care about are global.