Why bailout Automakers?

germany is planning a bailout for opel as the are not doing well...look, i understand the whole free market thing, and it would correct itself but at what cost? we are talking hundreds of thousands of jobs, if not in the low millions that would have been lost if the bailout did not happen!!! the market would be flooded for a long time of people needing jobs..families would lose there homes just because a few people in suits really fd up...you cant talk about things like 'they should have let them fail' because it is not YOUR family that would be living on the street because you would have lost your income, the gov cant just sit there and do nothing...this is for the people to still survive!! you cant just wait for things to be better again.
 
germany is planning a bailout for opel as the are not doing well...look, i understand the whole free market thing, and it would correct itself but at what cost? we are talking hundreds of thousands of jobs, if not in the low millions that would have been lost if the bailout did not happen!!! the market would be flooded for a long time of people needing jobs..families would lose there homes just because a few people in suits really fd up...you cant talk about things like 'they should have let them fail' because it is not YOUR family that would be living on the street because you would have lost your income, the gov cant just sit there and do nothing...this is for the people to still survive!! you cant just wait for things to be better again.

They are talking at about 2% of the American work force, or +2 million, that can lose their jobs. Be it linked directly or indirectly to the American auto industry.

Will this be a factor in rescuing the big three? Yes. I cannot see the American government letting +2 million people lose their jobs.
 
They should force them to re introduce the Electric car which Big Oil killed off. Oh wait. That's a bad idea, because all the garage owners, spares manufacturers, and mechanics and union leaders will also be unemployed and will need a bailout too. What a frikken mess.
 
South African carmakers can see there's a global recession, yet they will still raise their prices. Does not compute.

I think these buggers will also apply for a bailout as most of the dealers will close down and they'll sit with stock they can't sell because of the high prices which they have imposed in the first place.

Globally, the auto industry is in a very tough situation - sales are down as most people are unable to afford new cars - but that's stating the obvious.

In order to survive, the industry will have to look at creating small cars (like Tata does) with very little or no frills, just a plain basic car. (The Datsun 1200 sedan is a good example of that).
 
Throughout the car history you will see that there was companies who started up, rose up, and fell. Or got assimilated by other companies.

What good does it do to bail out the car manufacturers if nobody is able to buy new cars? It just will be a waste of money as they'll need to be bailed out time and again...
 
Same as the Air industry. I see the SAA asked for another R3 billion to be added on what they asked for a couple of months ago and the same goes for Alitalia.
 
Big Three auto CEOs flew private jets to ask for taxpayer money

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/11/19/autos.ceo.jets/index.html

Big Three auto CEOs flew private jets to ask for taxpayer money

(CNN) -- Some lawmakers lashed out at the CEOs of the Big Three auto companies Wednesday for flying private jets to Washington to request taxpayer bailout money.

"There is a delicious irony in seeing private luxury jets flying into Washington, D.C., and people coming off of them with tin cups in their hand, saying that they're going to be trimming down and streamlining their businesses," Rep. Gary Ackerman, D-New York, told the chief executive officers of Ford, Chrysler and General Motors at a hearing of the House Financial Services Committee.

"It's almost like seeing a guy show up at the soup kitchen in high hat and tuxedo. It kind of makes you a little bit suspicious."

He added, "couldn't you all have downgraded to first class or jet-pooled or something to get here? It would have at least sent a message that you do get it."

The executives -- Alan Mulally of Ford, Robert Nardelli of Chrysler and Richard Wagoner of GM -- were seeking support for a $25 billion loan package. Later Wednesday, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid reversed plans to hold a test vote on the measure.

An aide told CNN that Reid decided to cancel the test vote when it became clear the measure would fall well short of the 60 votes needed. Reid did, however, make a procedural move that could allow a vote on a compromise, which several senators from auto-producing states were feverishly trying to craft.

At Wednesday's hearing, Rep. Brad Sherman, D-California, pressed the private-jet issue, asking the three CEOs to "raise their hand if they flew here commercial."

"Let the record show, no hands went up," Sherman said. "Second, I'm going to ask you to raise your hand if you are planning to sell your jet in place now and fly back commercial. Let the record show, no hands went up."

The executives did not specifically respond to those remarks. In their testimony, they said they are streamlining business operations in general. VideoWatch Nardelli ask for help »

When contacted by CNN, the three auto companies defended the CEOs' travel as standard procedure.

Like many other major corporations, all three have policies requiring their CEOs to travel in private jets for safety reasons.

"Making a big to-do about this when issues vital to the jobs of millions of Americans are being discussed in Washington is diverting attention away from a critical debate that will determine the future health of the auto industry and the American economy," GM spokesman Tom Wilkinson said in a statement.

Chrysler spokeswoman Lori McTavish said in a statement, "while always being mindful of company costs, all business travel requires the highest standard of safety for all employees."

Ford spokeswoman Kelli Felker pointed to the company's travel policy and did not provide a statement elaborating.

But those statements did little to mollify the critics.

"If it is simply the company's money at stake, then only the shareholders can be upset or feel as it might be excessive," said Thomas Schatz, president of the watchdog group Citizens Against Government Waste.

But in this case, he said, "it's outrageous."

"They're coming to Washington to beg the taxpayers to help them. It's unseemly to be running around on a $20,000 flight versus a $500 round trip," Schatz added.

The companies did not disclose how much the flights cost.

Analysts contacted by CNN noted that the prices vary with the size of the plane and the crew, and whether the aircraft is leased or owned by the company.

Analyst Richard Aboulafia of the Teal Group said that $20,000 is a legitimate ballpark figure for a round trip corporate jet flight between Detroit, Michigan, and Washington. iReport.com: Share your thoughts on the 'Big Three' bailout

When asked whether they plan to change their travel policies as part of the restructuring needed to shore up their finances, none of the companies answered directly. But they said they have cut back on travel in general as revenues have fallen.

LOL... FAIL! :D
 
These guys just are not serious. It just goes to show, the cash will just go towards keeping current procedures running. :rolleyes:

And in a couple of years, they will be back asking for more, as the fundamental issue of them selling their cars, would still not be solved, IMO.

Business as usual! :D
 
First, their huge disadvantage in costs relative to foreign brands must be eliminated. That means new labor agreements to align pay and benefits to match those of workers at competitors like BMW, Honda, Nissan and Toyota. Furthermore, retiree benefits must be reduced so that the total burden per auto for domestic makers is not higher than that of foreign producers

This is what turns the unions and their party white :o

The auto makers going down the toilet is a nightmare for the Dems. Their voters get the shaft and the new firms will be independent free from good old social engineering from the state.
 
According to the Financial Mail, this is what the auto-industry means to America:

  • 20% of US GDP and 17% of (direct) jobs depend on the industry
  • 3m US jobs would be lost if the Big Three closed down
  • $67480 is the average annual salary for auto production workers
  • $81940 is the average for skilled workers
 
Michael Moore has his say:

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/US/11/20/lkl.michael.moore/

alanf85 and marine are allowed not to read it ... ;)

Moore: Well, what really went wrong is that General Motors has had this philosophy from the beginning that what's good for General Motors is good for the country. So, their attitude was we'll build it and you buy it. We'll tell you what to buy. You just buy it.

Eventually, the consumer got smart and said, 'You know what, I'd like a car that gets a little better gas mileage. I'd like a car that's safer on the road,' so they started to buy other cars. General Motors still wouldn't change. They still kept building the wrong cars, and more and more people stopped buying them.

The problem is the cars they've been building. They've never listened to the consumers. They've just gone about it their own wrong way. I'll tell you, you know, I'm of mixed mind about this bailout, Larry, because I don't think these companies, with these management people, should be given a dime, because that's just going to be money going up in smoke or off to other countries.

GM is currently building a $300 million factory in Russia right now to build SUVs, right outside of St. Petersburg. That's where your money's going to go, no matter what they say.
 
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