Why conservatives prefer propaganda to reality

[marine1]

He is conservative and a white racist. The two often (though not always) go hand in hand I can understand how you wanna distance yourself from him, but at the end of the day he is a conservative whether you believe it or not.

See with liberals that's how you like to see it. You either with you or against you. I'm conservative and I don't agree this picks view one bit.
It doesn't always go hand in hand . I have very conservative views about things but also very democratic views. Doesn't mean I'm like him or you.

 

[w1z4rd]

See with liberals that's how you like to see it. You either with you or against you. I'm conservative and I don't agree this picks view one bit.
It doesn't always go hand in hand . I have very conservative views about things but also very democratic views. Doesn't mean I'm like him or you.

No, thats how you see it, I didnt say anything about being for or against. I just simply highlighted what he is. If someone lables me as white, it doesnt mean I am automatically anti-black. I have some very good conservative friends (the non-racist type). But I understand how you dont wanna be associated with him and wanna ignore the reality of the situation, hence the OP

Do you know the Taliban are also conservatives ?

 

[OrbitalDawn]

So why are anti-immigration parties making huge inroads across Europe? Ghoti might be interested that even in uber liberal Sweden, the Swedish Democrats obtained 13% of the vote (up from 6.5% previously) in the recent elections and are now the third biggest party in the Swedish parliament. Also see the rise of the National Front in France or UKIP in England.

Also there are lots of quotes of support from liberals about the great liberator Robert Mugabe.

Economic issues, mostly. Oh, and populism. It's pretty standard Othering. Things aren't peachy so let's blame the durn immigrants!

 

[Nom Chompsky]

Oh wow ghoti you really are a bit desperate.

Let me spell it out to you clearly.

Steve Hofmeyr is FAR RIGHT and I have almost nothing in common with him. I am centre right (e.g. I support abortion, homosexual rights and a safety for the poor but not an overly generous social safety net. I dont support big business cynically supporting immigration so they can pay lower wages to foreigners at the expense of the indigenous population).

It is akin to me painting you as one of the loonie left...

 

[OrbitalDawn]

See with liberals that's how you like to see it. You either with you or against you. I'm conservative and I don't agree this picks view one bit.
It doesn't always go hand in hand . I have very conservative views about things but also very democratic views. Doesn't mean I'm like him or you.

It's irrelevant that you don't agree with his views on this. He's still conservative. I don't agree with all liberals on everything, either. Doesn't mean they aren't liberals.

 

[w1z4rd]

It's irrelevant that you don't agree with his views on this. He's still conservative. I don't agree with all liberals on everything, either. Doesn't mean they aren't liberals.

Yeah, some liberals annoy me. Im not a fan of Ben Affleck for instance. There are many shades of liberalism and many shades of conservatism. Marine1 is a liberal to a conservative like Steve.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Oh wow ghoti you really are a bit desperate.

Let me spell it out to you clearly.

Steve Hofmeyr is FAR RIGHT and I have almost nothing in common with him. I am centre right (e.g. I support abortion, homosexual rights and a safety for the poor but not an overly generous social safety net. I dont support big business cynically supporting immigration so they can pay lower wages).

It is akin to me painting you as one of the loonie left...

The hell are you talking about? Hofmeyr is a conservative. That's pretty much beyond dispute. He might be far right, and father right than you are, but that doesn't make him not a conservative.

 

[w1z4rd]

Oh wow ghoti you really are a bit desperate.

Let me spell it out to you clearly.

Steve Hofmeyr is FAR RIGHT and I have almost nothing in common with him. I am centre right (e.g. I support abortion, homosexual rights and a safety for the poor but not an overly generous social safety net. I dont support big business cynically supporting immigration so they can pay lower wages to foreigners at the expense of the indigenous population).

It is akin to me painting you as one of the loonie left...

Lol, he is a conservative, no matter how you try paint it. Just like ISIS is a conservative group, however to both Steve and ISIS, you are a left wing loonie (even though you self identify as a conservative). Neither of you would see each other as conservatives. The irony

 

[OrbitalDawn]

the lines become blurred in politics and philosophies. i still wish i could find the article i read years ago where there general premise of each group is explained. at the same time, don't let other nitwit conservatives speak on my behalf simple because we both identify as conservative.

i believe in universal freedom for the individual, while most conservatives simply care about their freedom and to hell with others

That's not quite right. Conservatives generally like to prescribe to society how it should function. Liberalism generally advances the rights of the individual.

there is also an ugly side to liberalism, while they support others' rights, they sometimes infringe on people's rights to cater for other people's sensitivities.

FTFY. Most prevalent in religious criticism, I've found.

neither is worse or better, it's simply different outlooks, and we can both find common ground between the philosophies

Can't agree with that. Conservatism is simply worse, imo. There's a reason progressives are called that.

 

[Nom Chompsky]

Economic issues, mostly. Oh, and populism. It's pretty standard Othering. Things aren't peachy so let's blame the durn immigrants!

Partially true.

Read about the Trojan Horse scandal in Birmingham schools or the rape of 1400 white school girls in Rotherham by Muslims. In the latter case, Labour admitted they did nothing about it in fear of upsetting Muslims. What a disgrace. It is as clear as daylight a significant minority of Muslims dont want to integrate into their adopted homes but rather create little Pakistans in England.

Also I remember Paris and Stockholm had big riots caused by Muslims.

I am still stunned you think liberal immigration laws have worked. Interesting that yet again, one of Ghoti's favourite places - Canada - has tight immigration restrictions.

Ok you can call SM a conservative but just dont paint all conservatives as SM types .

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Partially true.

Read about the Trojan Horse scandal in Birmingham schools or the rape of 1400 white school girls in Rotherham by Muslims. In the latter case, Labour admitted they did nothing about it in fear of upsetting Muslims. What a disgrace. It is as clear as daylight a significant minority of Muslims dont want to integrate into their adopted homes but rather create little Pakistans in England.

I'm aware of the Trojan Horse scandal. Posted the original thread about it on here, IIRC.

And in the other case, see my response to STS. I regard it as a dangerous blindspot of modern liberalism. Don't want to be called a racist or Islamophobe so let's not protect the rights of others. It's complete nonsense, of course.

Also I remember Paris and Stockholm had big riots caused by Muslims.

What constitutes a 'big riot'?

I am still stunned you think liberal immigration laws have worked. Interesting that yet again, one of Ghoti's favourite places - Canada - has tight immigration restrictions.

Why are you ignoring the millions of immigrants that don't cause problems and where it did work?

Ok you can call SM a conservative but just dont paint all conservatives as SM types .

Had no intention of doing so.

 

[Fulcrum29]

Anyone know on which research provided by Pew Research, AlterNet made their views on this topic?

This is the research on this topic by Pew:

http://www.pewresearch.org/topics/political-polarization/

 

[STS]

That's not quite right. Conservatives generally like to prescribe to society how it should function. Liberalism generally advances the rights of the individual.

FTFY. Most prevalent in religious criticism, I've found.

Can't agree with that. Conservatism is simply worse, imo. There's a reason progressives are called that.

Both advance the right of the individual, both abuse it in places. Political correctness did not come from conservatives, segregation didn't come from liberals. I said in other threads, conservative people are more focused on freedom(although many lose the plot somewhere taking photos them in their rooms, holding guns with the american flag behind them)

both definitions fall short, because conservatives do not want to conserve everything, just as liberals do not want to liberate everything.

in the end i have my views, and if they lean more towards being described as a liberal, then i am a liberal, but my views are my views, and a label doesn't do a person's beliefs justice

 

[marine1]

Oh wow ghoti you really are a bit desperate.

Let me spell it out to you clearly.

Steve Hofmeyr is FAR RIGHT and I have almost nothing in common with him. I am centre right (e.g. I support abortion, homosexual rights and a safety for the poor but not an overly generous social safety net. I dont support big business cynically supporting immigration so they can pay lower wages to foreigners at the expense of the indigenous population).

It is akin to me painting you as one of the loonie left...

Exactly

 

[Fulcrum29]

I worked through the Pew Research articles, interesting indeed:

Herewith the main research article to be discussed by AlterNet through their viewpoint, it makes a really good read.

http://www.journalism.org/2014/10/21/political-polarization-media-habits/

I am not going to copy paste the entire article here, but will snip an early summary:

Overall, the study finds that consistent conservatives:

• Are tightly clustered around a single news source, far more than any other group in the survey, with 47% citing Fox News as their main source for news about government and politics.
• Express greater distrust than trust of 24 of the 36 news sources measured in the survey. At the same time, fully 88% of consistent conservatives trust Fox News.
• Are, when on Facebook, more likely than those in other ideological groups to hear political opinions that are in line with their own views.
• Are more likely to have friends who share their own political views. Two-thirds (66%) say most of their close friends share their views on government and politics.

By contrast, those with consistently liberal views:

• Are less unified in their media loyalty; they rely on a greater range of news outlets, including some – like NPR and the New York Times– that others use far less.
• Express more trust than distrust of 28 of the 36 news outlets in the survey. NPR, PBS and the BBC are the most trusted news sources for consistent liberals.
• Are more likely than those in other ideological groups to block or “defriend” someone on a social network – as well as to end a personal friendship – because of politics.
• Are more likely to follow issue-based groups, rather than political parties or candidates, in their Facebook feeds.

Those with down-the-line conservative and liberal views do share some common ground; they are much more likely than others to closely follow government and political news. This carries over to their discussions of politics and government. Nearly four-in-ten consistent conservatives (39%) and 30% of consistent liberals tend to drive political discussions – that is, they talk about politics often, say others tend to turn to them for information rather than the reverse, and describe themselves as leaders rather than listeners in these kinds of conversations. Among those with mixed ideological views, just 12% play a similar role.

Do read the entire article, or else it will void the conclusion (and other's viewpoints) made on the research.

 

[Space_Chief]

I worked through the Pew Research articles, interesting indeed:
Are more likely than those in other ideological groups to block or “defriend” someone on a social network – as well as to end a personal friendship – because of politics.

Are more likely to have friends who share their own political views. Two-thirds (66%) say most of their close friends share their views on government and politics.

The two points may go hand in hand. US conservatives are more likely to have conservative friends, possibly in part because US liberals "un-friend" them.

 

[Nom Chompsky]

The two points may go hand in hand. US conservatives are more likely to have conservative friends, possibly in part because US liberals "un-friend" them.

Yip. This was interesting:

But that doesn’t mean consistent liberals necessarily embrace contrasting views. Roughly four-in-ten consistent liberals on Facebook (44%) say they have blocked or defriended someone on social media because they disagreed with something that person posted about politics. This compares with 31% of consistent conservatives and just 26% of all Facebook users who have done the same.

 

[noxibox]

In the latter case, Labour admitted they did nothing about it in fear of upsetting Muslims.

It wasn't about Muslims as such, but not wanting to appear racist and a disdain for the working classes. The police viewed them as basically trash anyway. A disdain that continues with the Conservative party, and all the people who are often called liberal, but are as anti-liberal as they come.

I am still stunned you think liberal immigration laws have worked. Interesting that yet again, one of Ghoti's favourite places - Canada - has tight immigration restrictions.

They've worked very well. The majority of immigrants to the UK integrate just fine and they provide a net benefit. Canada could also benefit from further relaxing their immigration. Free movement is important and fundamental. It happens that it also provides real economic benefits.

Political correctness did not come from conservatives, segregation didn't come from liberals. I said in other threads, conservative people are more focused on freedom

Political correctness does come from self-identified conservatives. They also have no interest whatsoever in freedom. Whether those things are a genuine conservative viewpoint is another matter, considering that many people who call themselves or get accused of being liberal are nothing of the sort.

 

[zippy]

http://www.salon.com/2014/10/24/why_conservatives_prefer_propaganda_to_reality_partner/

No surprises there. We can see it in South Africa, where conservatives like Steve Hofmeyr blame black people for Apartheid. They create their own reality bubble and pretend its reality.

Propoganda is not just a problem with conservatives. Look at the ANC and Cosatu. They deny many economic realities in favor of their own Marxist propoganda

 

[zippy]

I guess this means that atheists who want to ban religion can't be called liberal, because this prescribing what people should or should not believe ?