Why data expires – Explained by a hacker

[Kloofvreter]

Yawn

 

[juice777]

What is more exploitative is that, after the bundle expires, then you automatically start paying for data at exorbitant out-of-bundle prices. My understanding is that only Telkom provides an option to disable OOB data.

 

[Geoff.D]

You definitely do not understand how data works. There is no pool.

View attachment 598304

Of course, there is a pool. That is what the current business plan model implies. And that is why the current model is flawed, precisely because there is no pool ....

Very contradictory is it not?

And that is another reason why the " speed" terminology is wrong as well when it comes to a debate about capacity.

 

[JustAsk]

Data is a fictional product, it's really just access.

Once the network is built, it's built, all you pay for is maintance of the network. Network plugs into a sea cable for international access and pay x amount for said access. Every voice/data product, big or small, have a percentage cost built into it for network maintance, upgrades,roaming and cable costs. If you build a small wifi network for you and friends, you do not pay anything to move huge data over it, because you own the network

The example by the "hacker" is utter nonsense. If 10 million people buy 1GB each and not use it, you have the network capacity free to resell access to new buyer to use it. The network will actually make more money this way. If the 10 million people decide to use their data, all networks have prioritizing systems in place to handle the load. It works just like regulating road traffic. Congesting can happens, but it is handled with dropped calls, slow data speeds and delayed sms'es. The "keeping of data" is just simple accounting.

Expiring data is just their version of planned obsolescence.

 

[Geoff.D]

What is more exploitative is that, after the bundle expires, then you automatically start paying for data at exorbitant out-of-bundle prices. My understanding is that only Telkom provides an option to disable OOB data.

I don't think that is the case. Vodacom also offers you the choice when you sign up for a new contract. But one is not always in the right frame of mind to understand what the offer is at the time. You have the choice of a sort of automatic rollover into OOB on VC, by just continuing to use capacity when your data is up, or not. If you select the other option, connectivity is lost and cannot be re-activated until you consciously buy an OOB bundle. I have that setup on my tablet but not on my mobile phone. On the phone, the continuation at a OOB rate is more or less automatic. Except that I prevent it in the phone settings, unless I really need to continue for any reason.

 

[supersunbird]

Of course, there is a pool. That is what the current business plan model implies. And that is why the current model is flawed, precisely because there is no pool ....

Very contradictory is it not?

And that is another reason why the " speed" terminology is wrong as well when it comes to a debate about capacity.

They have to express it in some way that normal people can kind of comprehend (even you still say there is a pool even though there really isn't so you fall in line with those people), and proper uncapped will not be affordable on wireless medium.

 

[Geoff.D]

Data is a fictional product, it's really just access.

Once the network is built, it's built, all you pay for is maintance of the network. Network plugs into a sea cable for international access and pay x amount for said access. Every voice/data product, big or small, have a percentage cost built into it for network maintance, upgrades,roaming and cable costs. If you build a small wifi network for you and friends, you do not pay anything to move huge data over it, because you own the network

The example by the "hacker" is utter nonsense. If 10 million people buy 1GB each and not use it, you have the network capacity free to resell access to new buyer to use it. The network will actually make more money this way. If the 10 million people decide to use their data, all networks have prioritizing systems in place to handle the load. It works just like regulating road traffic. Congesting can happens, but it is handled with dropped calls, slow data speeds and delayed sms'es. The "keeping of data" is just simple accounting.

Expiring data is just their version of planned obsolescence.

Excellent post!
At least one other person on this forum that can see through all the rubbish!
just one small comment. Slow throughput is what happens.

 

[genetic]

Data is a fictional product, it's really just access.

Once the network is built, it's built, all you pay for is maintance of the network. Network plugs into a sea cable for international access and pay x amount for said access. Every voice/data product, big or small, have a percentage cost built into it for network maintance, upgrades,roaming and cable costs. If you build a small wifi network for you and friends, you do not pay anything to move huge data over it, because you own the network

Read the article.

Just because they own the network, does not mean they magically get access to the rest of the internet / ISP's and exchanges. That all costs money.

 

[supersunbird]

Data is a fictional product, it's really just access.

Once the network is built, it's built, all you pay for is maintance of the network. Network plugs into a sea cable for international access and pay x amount for said access. Every voice/data product, big or small, have a percentage cost built into it for network maintance, upgrades,roaming and cable costs. If you build a small wifi network for you and friends, you do not pay anything to move huge data over it, because you own the network

The example by the "hacker" is utter nonsense. If 10 million people buy 1GB each and not use it, you have the network capacity free to resell access to new buyer to use it. The network will actually make more money this way. If the 10 million people decide to use their data, all networks have prioritizing systems in place to handle the load. It works just like regulating road traffic. Congesting can happens, but it is handled with dropped calls, slow data speeds and delayed sms'es. The "keeping of data" is just simple accounting.

Expiring data is just their version of planned obsolescence.

The bolded is very correct.

This network they have to build is very expensive and rebuilt every now and then with new technologies and spectrum bidding/licensing costs and generators and batteries for power outages and theft, and then the retail channels and support and whatever that needs to be maintained, which you won't have on your LAN.

 

[DXL]

And the odds of this happening are?

You will have a better chance of catching the USA Powerball and Euromillions in the same week

1 Zillion to 1

 

[Geoff.D]

They have to express it in some way that normal people can kind of comprehend (even you still say there is a pool even though there really isn't so you fall in line with those people), and proper uncapped will not be affordable on wireless medium.

Not so. A wireless network is no different from any other network. It just has more constraints and will run out of "capacity" sooner than wireline networks. It is actually able to regulate itself. When it is full, it is full so connectivity slows down or you don't get any connectivity at all, and comms becomes an exercise in queue management.
The entire wireless industry relies upon "oversell" to justify its existence. They "sell" the "pool" of instantaneous capacity available over and over again, relying on the fact that not everyone wants to or does, communicate /connect at the exact same instantaneous time. In the old analogue days, it was far more apparent how these things work, because you would "book" a circuit, get it set up for you ("nailed up") and it was available to you until you cut the connection. Now, it is all about access to "timeslots" made available to you in a perceived seamless fashion, but if there are no time slots available, your data packet "waits" until there is and what you perceive is low throughput.

 

[JustAsk]

The bolded is very correct.

This network they have to build is very expensive and rebuilt every now and then with new technologies and spectrum bidding/licensing costs and generators and batteries for power outages and theft, and then the retail channels and support and whatever that needs to be maintained, which you won't have on your LAN.

I've addressed that in my post very clearly.

All of that you mentioned, plus a hefty profit makes up the price of every data product. I pay for maintance,theft,power outages,etc even if i buy a 100mb data for R29.

 

[DXL]

Data is a fictional product, it's really just access.

Once the network is built, it's built, all you pay for is maintance of the network. Network plugs into a sea cable for international access and pay x amount for said access. Every voice/data product, big or small, have a percentage cost built into it for network maintance, upgrades,roaming and cable costs. If you build a small wifi network for you and friends, you do not pay anything to move huge data over it, because you own the network

The example by the "hacker" is utter nonsense. If 10 million people buy 1GB each and not use it, you have the network capacity free to resell access to new buyer to use it. The network will actually make more money this way. If the 10 million people decide to use their data, all networks have prioritizing systems in place to handle the load. It works just like regulating road traffic. Congesting can happens, but it is handled with dropped calls, slow data speeds and delayed sms'es. The "keeping of data" is just simple accounting.

Expiring data is just their version of planned obsolescence.

Well Explained ! ! !

 

[supersunbird]

Not so. A wireless network is no different from any other network. It just has more constraints and will run out of "capacity" sooner than wireline networks. It is actually able to regulate itself. When it is full, it is full so connectivity slows down or you don't get any connectivity at all, and comms becomes an exercise in queue management.
The entire wireless industry relies upon "oversell" to justify its existence. They "sell" the "pool" of instantaneous capacity available over and over again, relying on the fact that not everyone wants to or does, communicate /connect at the exact same instantaneous time. In the old analogue days, it was far more apparent how these things work, because you would "book" a circuit, get it set up for you ("nailed up") and it was available to you until you cut the connection. Now, it is all about access to "timeslots" made available to you in a perceived seamless fashion, but if there are no time slots available, your data packet "waits" until there is and what you perceive is low throughput.

And then when you get low throughput, there is a mob ranting and raving on all forms of media, especially the social kind, vowing to never use your again and callign an a boycot and whatever, like you do when a banks systems are down or a mobile network is down or an ADSL exchange was congested.

 

[Swa]

ICASA and the NCC were warned that if they insisted on including regulations to force a three-year minimum for data expiry, the matter would end up in court.

Wonderful when you can just dictate to the regulator in order to get your way.

And the odds of this happening are?

Exactly, this "hacker" doesn't know what he's talking about. In the end when dealing with thousands of people it all averages out and bundle expiry actually encourages bad consumer behaviour by splurging at the end of the month to avoid losing so you end up with capacity issues.

 

[Swa]

I don't think that is the case. Vodacom also offers you the choice when you sign up for a new contract. But one is not always in the right frame of mind to understand what the offer is at the time. You have the choice of a sort of automatic rollover into OOB on VC, by just continuing to use capacity when your data is up, or not. If you select the other option, connectivity is lost and cannot be re-activated until you consciously buy an OOB bundle. I have that setup on my tablet but not on my mobile phone. On the phone, the continuation at a OOB rate is more or less automatic. Except that I prevent it in the phone settings, unless I really need to continue for any reason.

My issue with VC is more to the fact that it's impossible to use all your data at the agreed price unless you're on prepaid with no airtime left. Funny how they can make it work then. Otherwise you either leave some data over to avoid OOB and end up with a higher in bundle rate or use it all and pay OOB at exhorbitant rates.

And then when you get low throughput, there is a mob ranting and raving on all forms of media, especially the social kind, vowing to never use your again and callign an a boycot and whatever, like you do when a banks systems are down or a mobile network is down or an ADSL exchange was congested.

Funny that happens more often with the more expensive networks.

 

[The_Ogre]

Excellent post!
At least one other person on this forum that can see through all the rubbish!
just one small comment. Slow throughput is what happens.

So, by your own admission, then, Rogan is correct? The ISP would either need to get nefarious, or increase the size of their pipe onto the internet.. which means they'll have to pay.

For the record, and because I see you're staunchly defending your quotee, we're talking about international internet here.

edit: replaced tcp with Internet in the last sentence

 

[The_Ogre]

Just to ad, I'm not sure about others, but I'm defending @RoganDawes for at least trying to explain this phenomenon because I believe his explanation makes logical sense.

 

[Geoff.D]

Just to ad, I'm not sure about others, but I'm defending @RoganDawes for at least trying to explain this phenomenon because I believe his explanation makes logical sense.

His explanation defends an indefensible business plan which makes the whole article just "clickbait".
There is no justification whatsoever to "expire" "data" purchased with real money, ever.

 

[R13...]

Just to ad, I'm not sure about others, but I'm defending @RoganDawes for at least trying to explain this phenomenon because I believe his explanation makes logical sense.

To be fair, Jannie has also always explained it the same but he always got heckled because he was defending the system and works for Vodacom.