Why do YOU pay taxes?

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sox63

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This is a debate I had with my friends not too long ago, and would like to see the points raised on this forum (even though I have a good idea of what will be posted).

The question is quite simple. How do you as an individual justify the tax we "pay" from our salaries? My and few others view is that we have no problem to pay them because we were born into being citizens of a country where taxes are the law, and seeing as though I chose to work and live here, best to keep SARS off my back and give them what I'm legally obliged to give them.

However, there seems to be another school of thought, whereby citizens want to apply some "warm and fuzzy feeling" logic to the process and say they are paying to make the country a better place. And I think if you take a survey of tax payers globally, you will find a big chunk of them that say their respective goverments are abusing the tax funds that they have been elected to spend in "the good of the country".

I know tax authorities use the "warm and fuzzy" aspect when doing advertising, but is it REALLY the reason we should comply? The way I see, you have no choice either way, so why not come out and say, "Pay up or go to Jail"?
 
To build enclosed sh|thouses in the Cape ! For people who should be building their own sh|thouses, but are not.

Not that I want to, but I have to - on pain of jailtime !

BTW, I've just spent a lot of my own money fixing up my own sh|thouse !
 
Lol, already knew what my answer was going to be and you said it in your last sentence
sox63 said:
"Pay up or go to Jail"?
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I'd actually like to see what private companies can do. Private companies will always run more efficiently since they need to in order to make a profit. But it gets difficult when you wan to completely privatise essential services such as police, fire prevention or medical care.
 
With all due respect, sox, you do not seem to understand the reasoning behind the levying of taxes.

Tax is imposed to fund government's activities, i.e. the supply of services and infrastructure to its citizens.

The law is merely the tool to get the citizens to comply with this.

So if SARS tells you nicely what the govt plans to do with the money that is collected, they are 100% spot on. THAT is why you pay tax.
 
Archer said:
But it gets difficult when you wan to completely privatise essential services such as police, fire prevention or medical care.
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Hasn't that already been done ? I get no police protection, medical care, education, etc, it's all privatised.
 
sox63 said:
This is a debate I had with my friends not too long ago, and would like to see the points raised on this forum (even though I have a good idea of what will be posted).

The question is quite simple. How do you as an individual justify the tax we "pay" from our salaries? My and few others view is that we have no problem to pay them because we were born into being citizens of a country where taxes are the law, and seeing as though I chose to work and live here, best to keep SARS off my back and give them what I'm legally obliged to give them.

However, there seems to be another school of thought, whereby citizens want to apply some "warm and fuzzy feeling" logic to the process and say they are paying to make the country a better place. And I think if you take a survey of tax payers globally, you will find a big chunk of them that say their respective governments are abusing the tax funds that they have been elected to spend in "the good of the country".

I know tax authorities use the "warm and fuzzy" aspect when doing advertising, but is it REALLY the reason we should comply? The way I see, you have no choice either way, so why not come out and say, "Pay up or go to Jail"?
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I don't agree with the bold part, although in practical terms it is the end result, whether you like it or not.

Certain social services are not viable/practical to be offered or run by the private sector e.g. infrastructure expansion and maintenance, policing and safety, the military, social welfare etc. etc. etc. and the government is entrusted by the voters to provide these. These services needs to be funded by the fiscus - hence tax.

So you are effectively required to contribute to services that society as a whole needs and the government acts as the fiduciary thereof.

It is formalised into the statutes, so yes - you have to pay tax when eligible otherwise you go will be convicted.

As to the realities of government spending and politics...well that's another kettle of fish.
 
blunomore said:
With all due respect, sox, you do not seem to understand the reasoning behind the levying of taxes.

Tax is imposed to fund government's activities, i.e. the supply of services and infrastructure to its citizens.

The law is merely the tool to get the citizens to comply with this.

So if SARS tells you nicely what the govt plans to do with the money that is collected, they are 100% spot on. THAT is why you pay tax.
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True, however, I have no say, beyond voting, into the countries budget. So I know what the tax is collected for, but this thread is around the individual and how you "deal" with the prospect of paying tax.
 
Yes, interesting question.

At school you were told that one has to pay taxes to provide funds for public services we use such as roads, sewage, public hospitals, schooling, safety services (police), public recreation such as parks etc, just to name a few.
The funny thing is that most of us who pay tax, rarely use any of the above, except maybe for the roads. Or even if you do make use of the above, you pay for it in other ways:

Roads - huge petrol levies
Sewage - Municipal accounts, levies
Hospitals - If you have medical fund you use a private hospital, and even if you don't, you pay a grand a month towards medical fund
Police - not the greatest service, and most people pay R300 per month for alarms and security companies
Schooling - sky high school fees must still be paid
Public recreation - many still charge a entrance fee

Obviously this is not the only place that our taxes go to...large chunks of the tax money go for development of the poor, and other infrastructure, as well as research and so on, but if would help if the services rendered by these most obvious public services were significantly better so that those who contribute most towards it will actually use it. Just for example, I'm sure tax money was used for the London underground and public transport somewhere, and basically everyone there uses it, because it is effective. Makes it easier to pay your taxes.
 
I pay it because I have too. It doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy feeling at all. Then again I voluntarily teach maths and science to underprivileged children and that doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy feeling either and I just do it because I think it is better for society, but there is no feeling, just logic.
 
I'm paying tax for the following services:

1) Police Force - but I still pay for car theft insurance and a tracker and a security alarm company for home
2) Hospitals and clinics - but I'm forced to get my own medical aid or I'm screwed
3) Education - but I have to pay my kids' school fees and take out a second mortgage to finance their varsity fees
4) Roads - but I've just spent R3k on replacing 2 of my wheels which were taken out by potholes
 
sox63 said:
True, however, I have no say, beyond voting, into the countries budget. So I know what the tax is collected for, but this thread is around the individual and how you "deal" with the prospect of paying tax.
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1. If you think you have no say, it is not entirely correct.

Citizens have a say when they vote (!) and on a more practical level, they have a say through the channels of public participation.

Example: during the legislative process, all bills get published for comments, public hearings are held on a range of issues and at local level, residents of wards are invited to attend the local authorities' public meetings on drafting Integrated Development Plans for their municipal area. The same happens during the budget process.

The point is that we (and I definitely include myself here) are not prioritising our democratic participation in government.

2. I think if people participated more as set out in my point 1 above, they would feel (slightly :) ) better about paying tax, because they would have a sense of involvement in where their taxes go.
 
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blunomore said:
1. If you think you have no say, it is not entirely correct.

Citizens have a say when they vote (!) and on a more practical level, they have a say through the channels of public participation.

Example: during the legislative process, all bills get published for comments, public hearings are held on a range of issues and at local level, residents of wards are invited to attend the local authorities' public meetings on drafting Integrated Development Plans for their municipal area. The same happens during the budget process.

The point is that we (and I definitely include myself here) are not prioritising our democratic participation in government.

2. I think if people participated more as set out in my point 1 above, they would feel (slightly :) ) better about paying tax, because they would have a sense of involvement in where their taxes go.
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I think most of us would rather avoid all that politics and hope that the goverments do what they said they will do. I just want to get on with my life and make my money. :)
 
I pay taxes because I have to. If there was any way I could withhold paying until government made a serious attempt to root out corruption I would in a heartbeat.
 
Voicy said:
I'm paying tax for the following services:

1) Police Force - but I still pay for car theft insurance and a tracker and a security alarm company for home
2) Hospitals and clinics - but I'm forced to get my own medical aid or I'm screwed
3) Education - but I have to pay my kids' school fees and take out a second mortgage to finance their varsity fees
4) Roads - but I've just spent R3k on replacing 2 of my wheels which were taken out by potholes
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+10
 
I pay tax because I'm forced to choose between paying tax and being considered a criminal. If I had any other option, I would not pay. I don't care about anyone starving to death; it's not my problem.

The concept of tax is completely flawed and ultimately corrupts the purity of money and trade. I pay other people but receive nothing in return. I see no fundamental reason why roads, railroads, aeroplanes and airports, healthcare, etc. can't be privately owned and the user pays for the service based on usage. That's a fair trade: the more you use the service, the more you pay. Law enforcement and security (police, military and judicial system) and perhaps foreign relations are the only services I think should be government services.

The flaws in the concept of tax become even more obvious when you look at the taxing model. The amount of tax you pay is based on the magnitude of your income. What is the justification for that? Because you can pay more? By extension then, because you don’t need to pay less? At that very moment you arrive at the unnatural and immoral core of it all. Need. Humans do not need anything, because you don’t need to live. You want to eat food, because you want to live.

A small, fixed tax, equal for every citizen, completely unrelated to income, makes sense to pay for the few services I mentioned above (law enforcement, security and foreign relations).

My apologies if my post doesn’t really belong in this forum.
 
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Voicy said:
I'm paying tax for the following services:

1) Police Force - but I still pay for car theft insurance and a tracker and a security alarm company for home
2) Hospitals and clinics - but I'm forced to get my own medical aid or I'm screwed
3) Education - but I have to pay my kids' school fees and take out a second mortgage to finance their varsity fees
4) Roads - but I've just spent R3k on replacing 2 of my wheels which were taken out by potholes
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This post is why I think medical aid contributions, security costs and school fees should be tax deductable.
Voicy, you can lodge a damage claim for potholes to get your money back.
 
Betonro said:
The flaws in the concept of tax become even more obvious when you look at the taxing model. The amount of tax you pay is based on the magnitude of your income. What is the justification for that? Because you can pay more? By extension then, because you don't need to pay less?
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Huh ?

BrendanD said:
This post is why I think medical aid contributions, security costs and school fees should be tax deductable.
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It is ;)
 
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