Why I don't trust RA's

Cius

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A cautionary tale I wanted to share.

So my dad had an RA that performed horribly for him. He was always negative towards them but I decided to get one anyways as apparently the rules had changed and the new RA's where "better". So for the past 16 years I have been putting money aside into an RA and not really paying that much attention to it. The RA in question was with PPS, one of the better providers (I thought) in that they at least give profits back to members. A mutual society rather than a for profit outfit.

This year I finally had a proper look at my RA and it was dismal. Total value after all this time was 273K. I just did the math on my total contributions in rand value totaled about 165K. So about 65% cumulative growth for all the years I have been with them. Turns out the high fees of the RA plus financial advisor fees ate almost all my growth. Total costs where over 4% where my pension fund for instance is 1.5% and its growth returns were far better too.

Comparing my pension fund which has been going 2 years less than the RA my net worth is 100% more than my total contributions into it as compared to the RA that is 65% more than my contributions. That is the difference between good and bad fees, and proper returns.

So while the contributions where tax deductible somewhat reducing the cost of that money put in, that RA was never contributing meaningfully to my retirement. I have now switched the remaining lump sum into a SATRIX product with low fees with 25% in a money market index to keep it section 28 compliant and my advisor kindly removed any ongoing fees from his side. The RA contribution i can now rather add to my work pension fund where it will do far better, or perhaps invest myself so its money I can take offshore if needed.

Just wanted to share. RA's have a dirty name for me now. Make sure you are putting your money into something with very low fees, and good returns, as most of the RA industry has mediocre returns and high fee's eating all your growth.
 
Which reminds me. Some guy on the forum had a big fight with me a while back saying there was no such thing as a new generation RA. I wish I could remember who it was so they could come read this thread.
 
Total costs where over 4%
“New” and “old” is the wrong distinction to make. “High-fee” and “low-fee” is the right way to discriminate, and this is squarely in the “high-fee” category.

RAs only work if you're in a low-fee product AND you're reinvesting the tax break.
 
A cautionary tale I wanted to share.

So my dad had an RA that performed horribly for him. He was always negative towards them but I decided to get one anyways as apparently the rules had changed and the new RA's where "better". So for the past 16 years I have been putting money aside into an RA and not really paying that much attention to it. The RA in question was with PPS, one of the better providers (I thought) in that they at least give profits back to members. A mutual society rather than a for profit outfit.

This year I finally had a proper look at my RA and it was dismal. Total value after all this time was 273K. I just did the math on my total contributions in rand value totaled about 165K. So about 65% cumulative growth for all the years I have been with them. Turns out the high fees of the RA plus financial advisor fees ate almost all my growth. Total costs where over 4% where my pension fund for instance is 1.5% and its growth returns were far better too.

Comparing my pension fund which has been going 2 years less than the RA my net worth is 100% more than my total contributions into it as compared to the RA that is 65% more than my contributions. That is the difference between good and bad fees, and proper returns.

So while the contributions where tax deductible somewhat reducing the cost of that money put in, that RA was never contributing meaningfully to my retirement. I have now switched the remaining lump sum into a SATRIX product with low fees with 25% in a money market index to keep it section 28 compliant and my advisor kindly removed any ongoing fees from his side. The RA contribution i can now rather add to my work pension fund where it will do far better, or perhaps invest myself so its money I can take offshore if needed.

Just wanted to share. RA's have a dirty name for me now. Make sure you are putting your money into something with very low fees, and good returns, as most of the RA industry has mediocre returns and high fee's eating all your growth.
@Cius Can you please DM me how you managed to move the lump sum as i am in a similar boat with my RA that's currently with Discovery but not performing at all over the past 13 years. Also just chatted to a financial advisor from Std Bank to look at re-investing my RA or moving it. Will appreciate the advise.
 
Here's a good comparison of low cost RAs. As stated in the article, you really shouldn't be paying anything over 1.2%. The 4% mentioned by OP is daylight robbery and anyone still on that sort of fee schedule should move ASAP.

 
I like to put it in concrete absolute terms. If you have a R 273k RA with 4% fees you are paying R 10 920 / annum or just under R 1k/month for the account.

For a R 1-million RA with 1.2% fee you are still paying R 1k/month.

Compare that to your other financial / banking products and see if it makes sense for what they're actually doing for you. How much of their time are you taking? Do you even go to their offices and drink the coffee you paid for?

There are international ETFs with < 0.1% TER and on top of that you shouldn't really be paying more than some small charges for trading and a nominal fixed custodianship fee.
 
An RA is just a tax wrapper with some rules.

It isn't a product in itself.

What matters most is yes (A) the fees and (B) the underlying funds that you invest in.

If your RA invests in shitty South African funds and ETF's then obviously your gains will be pathetic. Maximise your offshore exposure and invest in equities like S&P500.
 
I don't trust these financial institutions but they seem to be an evil we have to live with. A mate of mines company recently moved over to popular RA provider and asked me if these fees were legit? I have no idea but it does feel a bit high.

Investment management Annual fee - Total 1.20%
Platform administration Annual fee - Total 1.15%
Advice Annual fee - Total 0.29%
 
A cautionary tale I wanted to share.

So my dad had an RA that performed horribly for him. He was always negative towards them but I decided to get one anyways as apparently the rules had changed and the new RA's where "better". So for the past 16 years I have been putting money aside into an RA and not really paying that much attention to it. The RA in question was with PPS, one of the better providers (I thought) in that they at least give profits back to members. A mutual society rather than a for profit outfit.

This year I finally had a proper look at my RA and it was dismal. Total value after all this time was 273K. I just did the math on my total contributions in rand value totaled about 165K. So about 65% cumulative growth for all the years I have been with them. Turns out the high fees of the RA plus financial advisor fees ate almost all my growth. Total costs where over 4% where my pension fund for instance is 1.5% and its growth returns were far better too.

Comparing my pension fund which has been going 2 years less than the RA my net worth is 100% more than my total contributions into it as compared to the RA that is 65% more than my contributions. That is the difference between good and bad fees, and proper returns.

So while the contributions where tax deductible somewhat reducing the cost of that money put in, that RA was never contributing meaningfully to my retirement. I have now switched the remaining lump sum into a SATRIX product with low fees with 25% in a money market index to keep it section 28 compliant and my advisor kindly removed any ongoing fees from his side. The RA contribution i can now rather add to my work pension fund where it will do far better, or perhaps invest myself so its money I can take offshore if needed.

Just wanted to share. RA's have a dirty name for me now. Make sure you are putting your money into something with very low fees, and good returns, as most of the RA industry has mediocre returns and high fee's eating all your growth.
I'm with sygnia and their management fee is 0.6 percent fwiw
 
Advice fee is very low, but then again, it depends and I assume he/she received this fee because of the amount invested. Management and Platform fees are standard, but you can do better doing it directly or comapring with other platforms
 
Here's a good comparison of low cost RAs. As stated in the article, you really shouldn't be paying anything over 1.2%. The 4% mentioned by OP is daylight robbery and anyone still on that sort of fee schedule should move ASAP.

Yeah liberty was charging me just over 3 percent so @zerocool2009 gave me help on how to move..took me two months to complete the section 14
 
Just a cautionary note investing with offshore investment houses is not the answer. Our local asset managers have the same capability. Fees may be the attraction, but the only positive retun you will receive is the depeciation of rand. S&P 500 is underperforming, and unless you were already invested 10 years back, you will not receive the returns you hoped for. Bottom line, diversification strategy is the way to go... no one can predict the future.
 
Advice fee is very low, but then again, it depends and I assume he/she received this fee because of the amount invested. Management and Platform fees are standard, but you can do better doing it directly or comapring with other platforms
Cheers. I can never tell with these things. Definitely not my forte.
 
Just a cautionary note investing with offshore investment houses is not the answer. Our local asset managers have the same capability. Fees may be the attraction, but the only positive retun you will receive is the depeciation of rand. S&P 500 is underperforming, and unless you were already invested 10 years back, you will not receive the returns you hoped for. Bottom line, diversification strategy is the way to go... no one can predict the future.
I don't think you can do an RA with an offshore house. At least not one that I'm aware of.
 
Which is why one really should only even consider new generation RAs from someone like Allan Gray, Sygnia or 10x.
And without an advisor. No sense in paying an advisor is you know you have to go with a reg 28 fund. Just go with Allan gray balanced and change to lower equity once you hit 70.
 
I don't trust these financial institutions but they seem to be an evil we have to live with. A mate of mines company recently moved over to popular RA provider and asked me if these fees were legit? I have no idea but it does feel a bit high.

Investment management Annual fee - Total 1.20%
Platform administration Annual fee - Total 1.15%
Advice Annual fee - Total 0.29%
Here are Allan Gray's blanced fund fees for comparison. 10X and Sygnia are probably even cheaper.

Screenshot 2023-11-16 at 08.45.23.png
 
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