Windows 7 Touch, Dead On Arrival

[PeterCH]

Multi touch is available on the newer macbooks via the trackpad - I dont think its a big jump from there to touch screens.

Yes it is, and it works better than on Windows 7 but its key benefits lie in handheld devices. Vertical screens and touch technology for home use or chronic work use do not go well because our anatomy and physiology works against it. Holding your hand eye level leads to fatigue and other issues.
eg Gorilla arm etc.

 

[I am Penguin]

Multi touch is available on the newer macbooks via the trackpad - I dont think its a big jump from there to touch screens.

Main problem here is the cost of touch screens, not the support for it. There is a huge market and as soon as screens are produces with the touch layer as standard then I presume the cost will drop by a large margin. Maybe with the build in Microsoft support it will trigger a new range of commercial mainstream touch screen LCD's

 

[I am Penguin]

Yes it is, and it works better than on Windows 7 but its key benefits lie in handheld devices. Vertical screens and touch technology for home use or chronic work use do not go well because our anatomy and physiology works against it. Holding your hand eye level leads to fatigue and other issues.
eg Gorilla arm etc.

And point of sale functions? I see them every day.

 

[PeterCH]

And point of sale functions? I see them every day.

Standing till operator inputting the odd "Credit card number" at more or less waist height is a bit better but note that most input is done via bar code scanning and the operator does not sit the way desktop users sit with the screen at eye level - keeping your shoulder abducted and flexed for prolonged periods leads to fatigue very quickly. Next time you see a till operator use such a screen observe them more closely and you'll see what I mean.

Also as I've pointed out, MS is pushing this as a consumer feature (with Now Playing Video and Music) on a screen and not an industrial feature - this isn't the right page for that, nor is the picture correct.

 

[killadoob]

Another company producing yet more products that take advantage of Windows 7's much-vaunted touch capabilities? Amazing but true, at least according to DigiTimes, which is reporting that Acer is set to launch no less than three "touch-enabled products" loaded with Windows 7. That word apparently comes straight from a product manager in the company's mobile computer department, who also went on to say that touch-enabled netbooks might see "good market acceptance" if they're marketed as cheaper alternatives to tablet PCs, although it's not clear if the products in question are actually touch-enabled netbooks. In other touch-related news, Acer is also reportedly looking at using in-cell touch panel technology when it becomes widely available, which should be cheaper to produce than conventional touch panels that don't have all the necessary touch components built right in at the LCD panel level.

Research peter is all that is needed when you make threads.

 

[I am Penguin]

Standing till operator inputting the odd "Credit card number" at more or less waist height is a bit better but note that most input is done via bar code scanning and the operator does not sit the way desktop users sit with the screen at eye level - keeping your shoulder abducted and flexed for prolonged periods leads to fatigue very quickly. Next time you see a till operator use such a screen observe them more closely and you'll see what I mean.

Also as I've pointed out, MS is pushing this as a consumer feature (with Now Playing Video and Music) on a screen and not an industrial feature - this isn't the right page for that, nor is the picture correct.

All I am saying there is a market for it. At Sappi we have a system with Industrial control software and the operators prefer the touch screen controls above the mouse and keyboard. Its a question of if the facility is there it will be used and new ways fouund to use it effectively, if you have to make special effort to use the functions then nobody or rather a few in need will adopt or use it. With support integrated in the OS and freely available touch screens then the need will grow.

 

[PeterCH]

Research peter is all that is needed when you make threads.

So what that Acer is making touch screens for netbooks. Conics.net has been selling TOUCH SCREEN add-ons for netbooks for years now. They won't catch on because people who buy these netbooks are not designed differently to others. Touch screens for home use on desktop PC is a dead end - it never caught on and never will because it's too tiring for the arm.

 

[killadoob]

Ms will push it for consumer, we are guys who will make touch screens cheaper.

If i could get a 22" touch screen for 2k i would go and buy it right now but sadly touch screens are very expensive. Maybe this new acer touch screen will be much less.

Did you miss the touch screens products peter and only extract the touch screen netbooks?

 

[PeterCH]

All I am saying there is a market for it. At Sappi we have a system with Industrial control software and the operators prefer the touch screen controls above the mouse and keyboard. Its a question of if the facility is there it will be used and new ways fouund to use it effectively, if you have to make special effort to use the functions then nobody or rather a few in need will adopt or use it. With support integrated in the OS then the need will grow.

I'm not arguing industrial applications eg ATMs or POS (where ergonomics are taken into account) - I'm saying that sitting at a desk you will not use a touch screen unless it's in your lap or on your desktop (not vertical and eye level).

 

[I am Penguin]

I'm not arguing industrial applications eg ATMs or POS (where ergonomics are taken into account) - I'm saying that sitting at a desk you will not use a touch screen unless it's in your lap or on your desktop (not vertical and eye level).

What about HT system on PC, the market is growing fast and I would love to have a touch screen on my Desktop to control the Video playback features.

 

[PeterCH]

Ms will push it for consumer, we are guys who will make touch screens cheaper.

If i could get a 22" touch screen for 2k i would go and buy it right now but sadly touch screens are very expensive. Maybe this new acer touch screen will be much less.

Did you miss the touch screens products peter and only extract the touch screen netbooks?

Touch screens are not that bad in price - IC's been selling a touch screen desktop PC for over a year now - it's little more than a gimmick.

Ok, you buy a touchscreen and use it - I know I will get arm strain quickly if I use one - at the location my current screen is at.

 

[killadoob]

If touch screens cost as much as the 24 inch samsung i have i would buy it and use it, i would rather touch the screen than use a mouse.

Microsoft are helping this along and soon we will have cheap touch screens. Arm strain, damn i get hand strain using a mouse so i would love some arm strain rather at this point. Peter selling something is not the same as selling something cheaply. I do not care if touch screens have been out for 5 years they are expensive.

 

[I am Penguin]

I'm not arguing industrial applications eg ATMs or POS (where ergonomics are taken into account) - I'm saying that sitting at a desk you will not use a touch screen unless it's in your lap or on your desktop (not vertical and eye level).

So you agree then that there is a place and valid reason for Windows touch features to be integrated in an OS then . One up for Windows7. Desktop applications will grow once the facilities are there and become mainstream. I just see this growing forward in leaps and bounds.

Thus end of the discussion.

 

[PeterCH]

So you agree then that there is a place and valid reason for Windows touch features to be integrated in an OS then . One up for Windows7. Desktop applications will grow once the facilities are there and become mainstream. I just see this growing forward in leaps and bounds.

Thus end of the discussion.

No you're derailing the argument.

I said that Touch was implemented poorly in Win 7 and is over hyped.
(see linked article - actually the author said that).
Secondly I pointed out how the touch interface is touted by MS as a 'top feature' for consumers (or business users) while arm fatigue and gorilla arm preclude the use of vertical eye level height touch screens for repetitive use.

It's a gimmicky feature.

Furthermore touch screens are great for handheld devices - tablets, smartphones - and there Apple has the edge over Windows Mobile.

I never said that touch screen was a complete dead end altogether - eg in ATM or POS. I use a touch screen at ATMs but I would hate to use it for everyday work. At the ATM you press 2-3 buttons on it max and it's at waist height - your shoulder stays in its neutral anatomic position and the elbow is flexed. The Windows page I referred to is a sales pitch to consumers and users of netbooks/desktop/laptops and not manufacturers of POS/ATM/etc hardware/software.

Google "touch screen arm fatigue" or "gorilla arm" and you'll see that most people agree with me that repetitive use of touch screens at eye level is very uncomfortable. Maybe MS will come up with a bionic arm too.

 

[killadoob]

So peter you have used the touch on windows 7 have you?

You say it is poorly implemented so i am assuming you have some working knowledge with it as usual.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvThW2liaaY[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mg7v2TqNdLg[/ame]

Wow peter wow look at how poor it is, wow people cannot even use it. Glad you are around to tell us how poor windows 7 is. Always nice to have someone who has used the stuff and can give an opinion based on usage.

O wait that is not you.

 

[PeterCH]

So peter you have used the touch on windows 7 have you?

You say it is poorly implemented so i am assuming you have some working knowledge with it as usual.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvThW2liaaY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mg7v2TqNdLg

Wow peter wow look at how poor it is, wow people cannot even use it. Glad you are around to tell us how poor windows 7 is. Always nice to have someone who has used the stuff and can give an opinion based on usage.

O wait that is not you.

Actually, it's an InfoWorld article, as bwana has pointed it out to you.

Tell me one thing, why do you always get personal? Why are you a fanboy about this? Is your mom the Win 7 designer? Are you married to Win 7?
I'm trying to understand this but I can't get my head around it - why do you attack me personally when I post here.

Do you think personal attacks are acceptable? Are you capable of dissecting an argument even without attacking the poster?

Anyway bwana's rule (see his sig) applies to you. I've tried to be reasonable with you - I've argued this out politely and with fact but you have not.

BTW your Youtube video is a fail. Can you tell why?

 

[killadoob]

Yup i know i copied the vista one instead of the other one i saw.

Will find it now. Actually naaa i won't, you ask me if i am a fanboy and yes i am i enjoy windows 7. Now i ask you why do you keep posting about windows 7 when you do not and more than likely will not ever use it?

Why does it matter in your life if windows 7 is rubbish? Why the fixation on something you don't plan on using and have not used. Makes no sense to me why you are always making threads about windows 7 and commenting in threads about windows 7 when you have not used it and don't intend on using it. Do i go into the linux and mac forums and post all the kuk i can find on the internet about the 2, nope because i would be called a troll with no clue about either OS much like i am calling you.

MAKES NO SENSE

So explain to me why someone who does not like or want to use windows 7 is always going on about it? then maybe we can have a decent conversation.

 

[PeterCH]

Yup i know i copied the vista one instead of the other one i saw.

Not it.

Will find it now. Actually naaa i won't, you ask me if i am a fanboy and yes i am i enjoy windows 7. Now i ask you why do you keep posting about windows 7 when you do not and more than likely will not ever use it?

Why can't I post about it?

Why does it matter in your life if windows 7 is rubbish? Why the fixation on something you don't plan on using and have not used. Makes no sense to me why you are always making threads about windows 7 and commenting in thread about windows 7 when you have not used it and don't intend on using it.

How do you know I haven't used it? Why are you so arrogant to presume what others DO and MAY think?

Do i go into the linux and mac forums and post all the kuk i can find on the internet about the 2, nope because i would be called a troll with no clue about either OS much like i am calling you.

Why do you call someone who disagrees with you a troll? Why do you brand other posters? Why do you even care what other people think or post?
A troll post is a post designed to infuriate and piss others off. I'm not doing that since I'm responding - and arguing quite well - in fact you are unable to refute anything I've said in this thread. That's not trolling.

MAKES NO SENSE

Dude, if you disagree that's ok but don't insult someone else, don't accuse them of things and argue their points and not the person who is posting.

So explain to me why someone who does like or want to use windows 7 is always going on about it? then maybe we can have a decent conversation.

I think MS is usually full of hype and most of their products are disappointments when compared to what they advertise. Secondly this is an IT forum and Win is an IT issue. Infoworld is not a Win-troll site either.

You don't have to agree - but if you want to argue - don't attack another person and don't accuse them of anything. Don't assume everyone is like you - and that everyone likes Windows for what you like - some of us don't care for marketing BS and want simplicity and stability. Respect others and be polite. You can disagree - and then say why. There's many PRO-WIN 7 posts in this forum, I don't comment on those do I?

 

[killadoob]

Some people do not like windows BECAUSE THEY HAVE USED IT. You say you want stability but yet you have not seen with your own eyes if windows 7 is stable have you? Nope so troll status will get put on the end of your name.

You have another agenda so carry on peter but i will not stop. Keep goin bud.

I have no problems with people disagreeing with me, take aqualung as an example we often have arguments and i never call him a troll because he has actually used what he is arguing about. You are a windows 7 troll of note, the worst windows 7 troll ever on any forum worldwide .

I cannot tell someone who has not used windows 7 why i think this or that because they will have no idea WTF i am talking about BECAUSE THEY HAVE NOT USE IT LOL man peter this is so much fun.

Windows 7 troll would be someone who has plenty bad stuff to say but no actual experience using windows 7.

 

[PeterCH]

Some people do not like windows BECAUSE THEY HAVE USED IT. You say you want stability but yet you have not seen with your own eyes if windows 7 is stable have you? Nope so troll status will get put on the end of your name.

Again you're judging others with your own metric. How you know what is stable for me? Are you me? Why are you so arrogant and patronising?

You have another agenda so carry on peter but i will not stop. Keep goin bud.

I have no agenda. I think you're paranoid there. I use OSX and Win XP and haven't seen enough benefit in Win 7 or Vista to go there - for my purposes.
Maybe if I played DirectX 10/11 games I'd need to, but I don't. I don't badger you with: "You only thing Win 7 is great because you haven't used OSX."
I don't care about that.

You presume to much and you base your attacks on me personally (your conclusions about hidden agendas) instead of arguing posts on fact. You need to chill out, you're going to have stress related issues in your life that way.