Windows Client/Server Licencing TCO

[kwaggawerner]

Hi Guys,

I'm trying to figure out the total cost of deploying a small (<25 PC) windows (domain) network. The prices a general indicators only. Obviously VLK will make a big difference.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, with any of the following. I'm primarily trying to identify all the licencing that's required, not so much the cost of the licences.

Details of Fake PTY LTD:

They have one server, it's quite beefy, it has one physical cpu, several cores, and a lot of RAM. They will want to leave quite a bit of room for future expansions, and are looking to establish 2 regional offices in the future, each with their own domain's and regional administrators - these costs are of no concern at the moment.

First off, Windows Server... average cost for 2K8R2 STDx64 is R 5400.00
Then, Each client will need a server-licence, let's work on the per-device model. The above includes 5. We need another 20, so that's another R4000.00

Then, Fake PTY LTD will also want to make use of Hyper-V, as far as my knowledge goes, W2K STD makes provisions for 1 Physical CPU, and 1 Virtual Host. They want to run 5 VM's, so that's another amount of licenses, which I think has to be purchased from Microsoft themselves.

Then... they would like to mobilize their workforce, meaning, everyone has notebooks, either VPN's into the company, or accesses things via RDS & RemoteApp, again, licenses required, through MS themselves.

Now, those notebooks run FreeDOS, they Want Win7... that's 25 Win7Pro licenses, so it's R1500 x 25 = R37500.00

Now, they will also want Exchange, it has it's own license, plus each client will need a license, right? (Not including the costs of Office to get Outlook)

Is there any other licensing costs that I've missed? I get the feeling there is something I'm missing.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[PsyWulf]

Will be glad to help,1 question though - When you say they want 5 VMs,are you saying 5 Windows Server 2008 VMs?

 

[kwaggawerner]

Will be glad to help,1 question though - When you say they want 5 VMs,are you saying 5 Windows Server 2008 VMs?

Sure, why not, let's say they want to capture 2 of their existing 2K3 machines, and then run two Win XP clients for testing purposes and one 2K8 machine - so those are already licensed. These may or may not be joined to the domain, for the time being, let's exclude them from the licensing model. The one 2k8 machine they will just rearm a couple times, until they are certain they need it.

 

[PsyWulf]

Sure, why not, let's say they want to capture 2 of their existing 2K3 machines, and then run two Win XP clients for testing purposes and one 2K8 machine - so those are already licensed. These may or may not be joined to the domain, for the time being, let's exclude them from the licensing model. The one 2k8 machine they will just rearm a couple times, until they are certain they need it.

Here we already have a few problems if you want to be fully up to code regarding licensing:
The 2 existing Server 2003 machines were likely licensed as OEM - which cannot be transferred to differing hardware
The 2 XP machines may also not be virtualized unless you have a VDI license on-top of your Hyper-V license
Here's a VDI licensing guide for your perusal

If the company gives company-issued notebooks with a standard OS you need 1 Windows Home Basic license per notebook and then also 1 appropriate Windows 7 Pro License for that PC to upgrade ( cheaper than a standard Pro-only OEM key,and is transferrable as long as there is a home basic license on the new destination machine )

For your RDS and multiple ( new ) server 2008 vms,i'd look at either getting Windows Server 2008 enterprise ( 1x physical and 4 x vms license ) or if you will be using many different Servers look at Server 2008 Datacenter edition. Server 2008 standard licenses are single-use and have a limit of 250 RDS connections

Exchange 2010 will need a license per live Exchange server ( if you are looking at failovers ),as will every client,and of course 1x Office 2010 Pro per PC ( can be bought under Volume Licensing )

 

[PsyWulf]

To be frank i'd go with the following setup and licensing:
1x Citrix Xenserver as your Hypervisor
1x Windows 2008 R2 Enterprise license ( 1+4VMs = 5 Server 2008 R2)
1x Microsoft Exchange 2010
25x Microsoft Exchange CAL ( VL )
25x Microsoft Office 2010 Pro ( VL )
25x Microsoft Windows 7 Home Basic ( OEM - shouldve gotten with PCs )
25x Microsoft Windows 7 Pro ( VL )
25x Windows RDS CAL ( VL )

or if you won't be going over 75 users for the domain consider using Windows Small Business Server 2008 Premium ( 1 SBS 1 Standard server license ) which would include a single-use exchange,and the CALs for exchange and AD are rolled into 1

 

[The_Unbeliever]

Quite expensive, hey?

 

[PsyWulf]

Quite expensive, hey?

That it can be,especially if you interpret their licensing terms as they want you to interpret them We've had a few wrestling matches regarding precisely how many licenses are required

If you used VNC from Linux to Windows machines you *should* technically have a Windows license of the same version or higher ( Win7 -> xp,vista,7 ;Winxp -> xp only )

 

[riverdusty]

RANT RANT use opensource RANT RANT.

I've done a lot of analysis around this, basically paid-os vs opensource.
The only cost for opensource is a full time employee to manage the opensource system. Other than that, go for opensource.

 

[The_Unbeliever]

Precisely the reason why I decided to ditch Microsoft as an email/file server for a new site, and go opensource.

Too horribly expensive, and I don't want issues with viruses/worms...

ClearOS and Ubuntu FTW.

 

[kwaggawerner]

Thank you for your input PsyWulf. Appreciated.

As this was just a hypothetical scenario, I'm glad you added some non-Microsoft products. As there is always a cost-perspective that needs to be taken into account, even more so with companies tightening their IT budgets, and cutting back on spending across the board.

You mentioned Citrix, I know of them, but I have never had any dealings with their software. Personally I like VMware, but they are also not "cheap" in the traditional sense, their baremetal hypervisor is free though. Same as Citrix' baremetal offering. However the free version does not offering fault tolerance or clustering - which as you most likely know, is a must, especially fault-tolerance. A small company can still get away with backups to an external location, but there will be downtime should the machine die.

Most of my certifications are for Microsoft products, and as much as I love Microsoft's server software offering, it isn't quite affordable for all companies.

Same goes for their client OS'es... I love Windows 7 for a business or the prosumer, but I love Ubuntu just as much for my home use. And as much as I love FOSS, Debian/Ubuntu isn't always the best for a company, although kudos to FNB for using Ubuntu in all their branches!

So I like trying to either get to an acceptable compromise between what the client needs, and what they can reasonably afford.

The reason for my pondering about the costs, one of my clients, have about 10+ windows machines in a workgroup, they have a file server, and each PC retrieves mail via POP from their ISP, they mentioned to me that they want to expand, and a need for greater security and accountability has risen. Immediately I think of "domains and active directory", I'm not one for per-computer security measures or third party software. They will also want to utilise WDS when they buy several machines at once, so that will be the first VM, and a fax server, and of course DNS - I would personally run 'trivial' aka low duty/resource applications on the domain controller, it can handle it. They have other requirements also, but at least I have a rough idea of what the costs will be.

Now, All of the PC's are licensed with retail copies of Windows 7 Pro. My client is looking to double their workforce in the next year or two, it might make sense to convert to a full domain. The initial-cost is hindrance. My client is also using a fair amount of Apple machines, so a hybrid scenario needs to be taken into account.

 

[PsyWulf]

Considering fault-tolerance and clustering as a consideration the licensing fees and hardware will far exceed the Hypervisor price for Citrix which isn't remotely as high as VMWare or Microsoft

If I wasn't so busy with DB queries for audits i'd weigh in more but for now my previous input will have to make do