Wordpress sucks?

[rward]

TLDR;
I'm a fanboi, post why you think wordpress sucks so we can stay up all night because there's someone wrong on the internet!


I've been reading a bit lately about how badly wordpress sucks. I like it very much and think it's pretty awesome so I'm really curious as to why it sucks.

I've made a couple of reasons that I think it may suck and some counterpoints to them.
I'd be interested in feedback and further reasons as to why it sucks ....

Why does it suck?

1. Does it suck because it doesn't have the plugin you want?
That's not really a reason to say it sucks, is it?

2. Does it suck because you need to pay for the plugin?
That's also not a reason why it would suck. It takes time to write and support a plugin. It's not a case of 'fire and forget', you need to check it against new releases, help other users with configuring, running and troubleshooting, etc.

3. Does it suck because it has a really steep learning curve and poor documentation?
If you think this has a steep learning curve then maybe you shouldn't be doing development. If you think it has bad documentation then I'd guess you haven't checked out https://codex.wordpress.org/

4. Does it suck because it is slow?
Is it slow because you've installed 'over 9000' plugins?
Is it slow because you're using it as a static site (in other words you're using wordpress but you aren't updating any content so you may as well have written a static site but wordpress was easier.. so you were lazy and blaming the speed on it ..?)?

5. Does it suck because it can't do something that xyz can do?
Wordpress has a billion plugins, I'm pretty sure what you're looking for has been done..
If you don't think the plugin you want to use is secure, then download it and check out the source. If you're still not happy then copy the hard pieces out the plugin and use them to write your own.

6. Does it suck because it has badly developed plugins that were easily hacked?
How often do you update your wordpress installation and plugins?
Have you ever looked into the code after you've downloaded a plugin and audited it yourself? Even a quick look?
Do you use a vulnerability checked to scan plugins you've downloaded?

If you're bitching about 1, 2, 5 or 6 then you're not actually bitching about wordpress, you're moaning about a specifically written plugin.

Wordpress core is pretty solid and has a hell of a lot of functionality that would take quite a long time to write from scratch.

Next time you're thinking 'Wordpress sucks', please come post why, I'm really interested to hear..

 

[DA-LION-619]

Updates

 

[rward]

Updates

Updates that could break your layout or custom functionality?

I hadn't thought of that one and I've only experienced it with plugins, so fair enough, I guess.

After fixing the mess I checked the plugin and thought it was written well enought so I updated the version to 9999 so it wouldn't request an update anymore.


Wordpress core updates - I think I had an issue when I went from wrodpress 2.x to 4.x .. There were some issues with that but they were expected. Upgrading after version 3 has never been an issue.
For theme updates - you should have done all your stuff in a child theme....

 

[Fulcrum29]

Wordpress sucks because it has been repurposed to do ‘more’ than blogging, it sucks because Ghost took its grass roots.

 

[Thor]

Updates, good plug ins stop being supported 3 years down the line cause the developer lost interest.

 

[skimread]

Wordpress sucks because it has been repurposed to do ‘more’ than blogging, it sucks because Ghost took its grass roots.

I had so much hope for Ghost. It just never took off. No plugins. Very few theme. All I want it a blog with tags with similar articles. A blog is supposed to be like a spiders web, not a book. Ghost might look pretty but not usable for people who find an article via google and would like to explore the blog.

 

[Thor]

Side note

I can use a WordPress developer someone who can code.

Cause I can't seem to find plug ins that are free or maintained for what I have in mind

 

[rward]

Wordpress sucks because it has been repurposed to do ‘more’ than blogging, it sucks because Ghost took its grass roots.

Isn't a fresh install of wordpress a fast, secure, reliable blogging platform?
Lots of people do lots of great things with wordpress and manage to do them while keeping it fast, secure and reliable.
Lots of other people do 'just blogging' (wordpress.com and all it's user blogs)

Updates, good plug ins stop being supported 3 years down the line cause the developer lost interest.

Could it be that after 3+ years there is nothing more to do on the plugin, all the bugs have been fixed and the only thing left is to help out users that don't read the documentation?

 

[neo_]

Whilst I understand your point, my problem with WordPress is that it is too easy for security issues to pop up based on plugin usage, and that bloat is too easy to acquire. Note the key here: too easy. Whilst you are correct about processes to avoid this, the simple truth is that not everyone knows to follow these processes. Not everyone is an 'aware' developer or designer, and just wants to throw a site together. Many other platforms put a little bit of effort into their screening processes, and some other systems integrate the functionality of certain plugins into the core.

My current position is that WordPress does not suck. It is actually a great platform. The problem is that many people don't know how to effectively use it, and some of those people are not aware that should know how to effectively use it. WordPress is not targeted only at developers. It is also targeted at designers, and general users (like bloggers who put up their own sites) - they wouldn't have a 'five-minute' setup if it was only for developers. This leaves a gaping hole in terms of who should know what about the system.

Just a little something to add in here. I have two issues with WordPress. The first is that it's field system is not very flexible. Sure, there's a plugin for that, but it isn't really nice at all. Custom fields are becoming an essential tool for many developers these days, and the fact that WordPress doesn't handle it nicely is a no-no for me. My second issue is also from a developer point-of-view: it isn't object-oriented, it's still procedural - kind old-school now, don't you think? Sure, the system works. But, PHP as a language is mocing much faster, and WP as not catching up, as far as I understand.

Side note about updates: one should most certainly not have to change a plugins' version to 9999. Who does that? The simple fact of the matter is that updates are available too often, and, most of the time, updates are geared toward security issues. Daily plugin updates (which is true in many, many cases) is simply too much. It increases the risk of something going wrong - something breaking on the front-end. As WP is widely-used by a very large audience, it is safe to assume that many who encounter a break will not know to blame it on a plugin.

I'm not here to rat out WordPress - the purpose, here, is simply to bring up issues that can be solved with a little effort. Like I said, WordPress doesn't 'suck', so long as it is being used properly.

 

[rward]

Thanks for taking the time to write that out _neo, it's very close to how I feel about wordpress.

Custom post types and fields are two things that are regularly used to create 'more advanced' sites and they can be better supported by wordpress.


The 'updating plugin version to 9999' was for a plugin that did minimal db interaction and at some stage got a major update that broke a couple of things in the site. Rather than updating the site I rolled back the plugin and hard coded the version so it wouldn't be updated.

 

[shadowfox]

I'm writing this as someone who has used WordPress for my own blog/site since 2007, and as someone currently working for a company that develops premium plugins and builds websites on the WordPress platform.

I'm writing this in my personal capacity, so this is mostly my own opinion.

The issue WordPress has, from a security point of view is exactly the same one Windows has - it was built with the intended purpose of making the platform available to everyone, regardless of their level of expertise. Actually, a lot of the 'issues' people have with WordPress are remarkably similar to those of Windows.

And, given the fact that it runs a quarter of the top 10 million sites live today, it has succeeded admirably. But, the majority of the users aren't aware of the potential dangers of the internet (much the same as your average Windows user) and this leads to gaps in security that online criminal elements can easily exploit. So, this is definitely not a fault of the platform; it's just an attractive target.

2. Does it suck because you need to pay for the plugin?
That's also not a reason why it would suck. It takes time to write and support a plugin. It's not a case of 'fire and forget', you need to check it against new releases, help other users with configuring, running and troubleshooting, etc.

Plenty of free plugins available that will do the job if people don't want to pay. That being said, it does quite often happen that plugins become inactive, which can leave a person in the lurch, and I feel like this is a problem.

Premium plugins, on the other hand, tend to have time invested in them, and support is always on hand (I speak for ourselves here, of course). As much as we would like to build a plugin where support is completely unnecessary, this is a pipe dream, because you can't plan for every possible variation of plugins, themes, server setups and whatever else.

In the end though, most of the money we make off the plugins go towards support and further development of the plugins we have.

3. Does it suck because it has a really steep learning curve and poor documentation?
If you think this has a steep learning curve then maybe you shouldn't be doing development. If you think it has bad documentation then I'd guess you haven't checked out https://codex.wordpress.org/

I jumped into WordPress with very little experience, although I did have a Web Dev course in my pocket - but it was amazingly easy to pick up and use. Of course, you won't be able to do truly advanced things straight off the bat, but I've rarely needed to go and look for guides or anything because it's so straightforward.

That being said, I do have to admit I've badly broken my site on one or two occassions

4. Does it suck because it is slow?
Is it slow because you've installed 'over 9000' plugins?
Is it slow because you're using it as a static site (in other words you're using wordpress but you aren't updating any content so you may as well have written a static site but wordpress was easier.. so you were lazy and blaming the speed on it ..?)?

It goes both ways really - I've seen a couple of lightning-fast WP sites, and I've come across a few crawlers too. It's not even always plugins that cause the issue - I sped up my own site by 60% simply by moving it to a new server.

6. Does it suck because it has badly developed plugins that were easily hacked?
How often do you update your wordpress installation and plugins?
Have you ever looked into the code after you've downloaded a plugin and audited it yourself? Even a quick look?
Do you use a vulnerability checked to scan plugins you've downloaded?

This is very often a user-related issue as far as I'm concerned - if you're looking for plugins you need to do due diligence. For free plugins I would always recommend sticking to WordPress.org's repository, and even there, check that it's updated regularly, check reviews, check that the dev is active in the support threads.

Premium plugins - same thing. Stick to the reputable marketplaces, check reviews, dev support, ratings - Envato actually requires that devs support their plugins for at least 6 months after purchase. And, for heaven's sake - stay away from nulled premium plugins. This is not because I think 'by downloading our product for free you're stealing our bread and butter' - nulled plugins very often have malicious scripts added to them, and a user who downloads and uses them have only themselves to blame for whatever transpires.

WordPress just catches a lot of security related flak because it's got such a large ecosystem, and more people talk about it. Joomla, Magento, VBulletin, custom built CM systems - all of them can be compromised, and all of them have potential vulnerabilities. Joomla patched a serious SQL injection vulnerability just last month, Magento had a big attack a week or so before that - it's all relative.

I do agree with _neo that daily updates are a bit much though, it does happen however. And unfortunately it falls on the webmaster to keep an eye on things and make sure everything is updated whenever there is a release, but, this is - most of the time - a relatively minor thing. Imagine if it was a custom built system, and a vulnerability was discovered

 

[Thor]

Give me south African plug ins prices.

I hate it when I see the much needed plug in go for $19 - $32 which to them is cheap cheap cheap, but for us it's that times 14 which is not cheap.

 

[shadowfox]

Give me south African plug ins prices.

I hate it when I see the much needed plug in go for $19 - $32 which to them is cheap cheap cheap, but for us it's that times 14 which is not cheap.

Unfortunately, we sell our plugins via CodeCanyon, so they're charged for in USD. As far as I know WooThemes and Obox charge in USD too - it's easier that way since a very large portion of our buyers are off-shore.

And as soon as you sell on CodeCanyon, you have no control over the pricing - CodeCanyon's reviewers decide. Our current portfolio ranges from $18 - $19, and I find plugins on CodeCanyon generally cost a fair bit less than what you would pay from a dev directly.

 

[Thor]

Unfortunately, we sell our plugins via CodeCanyon, so they're charged for in USD. As far as I know WooThemes and Obox charge in USD too - it's easier that way since a very large portion of our buyers are off-shore.

And as soon as you sell on CodeCanyon, you have no control over the pricing - CodeCanyon's reviewers decide. Our current portfolio ranges from $18 - $19, and I find plugins on CodeCanyon generally cost a fair bit less than what you would pay from a dev directly.

Hence why I don't like WordPress, it's not for South Africans

 

[shadowfox]

Hence why I don't like WordPress, it's not for South Africans

I'm a little curious as to why you would think so. Surely not just because everything is priced in dollars?

If not WordPress, what are the alternatives available to locals?

There's an initiative running here in Cape Town, for example called Code4CT, where they are using WordPress as a platform to give girls a leg up in and expose them to opportunities in the ICT sector. WordPress is actually a great leveler in this regard.

Multiplying the dollar price by 14 does make it seem expensive, maybe, but compared to the time that would be needed to develop a website from scratch, with all the functionality that already comes with an out-the-box install of WordPress? You're looking at thousands of rands just to start, and that's before adding additional functionality.

You could pretty much apply your argument to absolutely everything we use - technology, software, games ... everything ends up being multiplied by 14. Doesn't mean we should go without it.

 

[rward]

Give me south African plug ins prices.

I hate it when I see the much needed plug in go for $19 - $32 which to them is cheap cheap cheap, but for us it's that times 14 which is not cheap.

A general developer rate in SA I'd guess is R350 an hour. So if the plugin can be thought of, planned and written in under an hour then yeah, it's expensive to buy the plugin.
I sincerely doubt that there are Any Paid For plugins that can be rewritten in under 4 hours, so you've jut saved yourself R1050...

I'm a little curious as to why you would think so. Surely not just because everything is priced in dollars?

I'm also very curious about this as it seems a very silly reason to dislike something.

Your operating system is $ based, all the apps on your phone are $ based, most of the stuff we get via the internet is $ based (which is why when the dollar goes up, prices go up).

 

[Thor]

A general developer rate in SA I'd guess is R350 an hour. So if the plugin can be thought of, planned and written in under an hour then yeah, it's expensive to buy the plugin.
I sincerely doubt that there are Any Paid For plugins that can be rewritten in under 4 hours, so you've jut saved yourself R1050...



I'm also very curious about this as it seems a very silly reason to dislike something.

Your operating system is $ based, all the apps on your phone are $ based, most of the stuff we get via the internet is $ based (which is why when the dollar goes up, prices go up).

Apps on my phone is in ZAR

 

[neo_]

Apps on my phone is in ZAR

Yeah, but those ecosystems are designed to run in multiple currencies. WP vs App usage statistics would show a giant gap. General public uses apps, but does not use WordPress.

 

[Zarkon]

I have a question for u wordpress peeps,rward if that's okay otherwise i will move to my own thread.

Im new to wordpress,so i developed a "test site" localhost(Xampp)

Ftp the files over to the public_html folder
Exported database from localhost, Used notepad++ replace function
Uploaded database to server,Changed the wp-config.php info

First time i uploaded the site worked,only the main page tho. I was looking to fix why the menu links wasn't working,read something about permalinks,and in that time the website updated,which broke some of my things on my website,then i added the no update script in the wp-config.php. Reuploaded everything,which seemed to work sorta,only one thing was out of place the next day,maybe from an update again. So i ftp everything once again,re doing everything. And now the site is broken on the server,localhost it works 100%. But on the server,a lot of things are broken. Is there like a file that saved or cached something on the server when it updated. What folders and files can i clear in the server.

 

[D3athD00r]

I have a question for u wordpress peeps,rward if that's okay otherwise i will move to my own thread.

Im new to wordpress,so i developed a "test site" localhost(Xampp)

Ftp the files over to the public_html folder
Exported database from localhost, Used notepad++ replace function
Uploaded database to server,Changed the wp-config.php info

First time i uploaded the site worked,only the main page tho. I was looking to fix why the menu links wasn't working,read something about permalinks,and in that time the website updated,which broke some of my things on my website,then i added the no update script in the wp-config.php. Reuploaded everything,which seemed to work sorta,only one thing was out of place the next day,maybe from an update again. So i ftp everything once again,re doing everything. And now the site is broken on the server,localhost it works 100%. But on the server,a lot of things are broken. Is there like a file that saved or cached something on the server when it updated. What folders and files can i clear in the server.

Change every url in the database from localhost to your live url. Best way is to use notepad+ replace function. Then make sure your url settings in wp-admin is correct.

Set permalinks to default and save a theme setting.