Wrong ammo used at protest: Mthethwa

LazyLion

LazyLion

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Police fired discontinued shotgun rounds during a service delivery protest in Mothutlung, North West, in which four protesters were killed last week, Police Minister Nathi Mthethwa said on Friday.

The SSG 12-gauge rounds, which contain pellets, were officially discontinued by the SA Police Service in 2006, and were "not supposed to be used", he told reporters in Pretoria.

Three people died in Mothutlung during the protests over water services -- two allegedly shot by police, while another died after falling out of a police vehicle. A fourth, shot in the head on the day, died a week later in hospital.

Responding to questions, Mthethwa said no live ammunition was used by police at the protest.

He announced that 14 police officers -- six constables, six warrant officers and two lieutenants -- were facing disciplinary action.

"Six are already suspended, others are being served with their suspension notices."

The disciplinary process could take up to 60 days. All of them were "well-experienced and practised" members of the public order policing unit, Mthethwa said.

According to police, a total of 185 shots were fired at protesters in Mothutlung last week during the water delivery protests.

These included rubber shot and the discontinued SSG rounds, as well as two stun grenades and a number of smoke grenades.


Source : Sapa /rod/hdw/ar/th
Date : 24 Jan 2014 15:32
 
Garyvdh said:
He announced that 14 police officers -- six constables, six warrant officers and two lieutenants -- were facing disciplinary action.
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Disciplinary action? They should be charged with murder because this is what it was!
 
Mike Hoxbig said:
Disciplinary action? They should be charged with murder because this is what it was!
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Because acting like a mob and swarming the police while shouting angrily and holding weapons with an obvious intent to do bodily harm does not constitute a reason for police to defend their outnumbered selves.

I highly doubt the police just walked up and started capping people. They were even regarded in the reports as highly trained and experienced.

It should be law that every officer or at least one person in each unit wears a video camera of some sort.
 
agentrfr said:
Because acting like a mob and swarming the police while shouting angrily and holding weapons with an obvious intent to do bodily harm does not constitute a reason for police to defend their outnumbered selves.

I highly doubt the police just walked up and started capping people. They were even regarded in the reports as highly trained and experienced.

It should be law that every officer or at least one person in each unit wears a video camera of some sort.
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Sorry mate but I can't justifiy killing someone just for acting like an idiot. There are other forms of crowd control that could have, and should have, been used.
 
Exactly murder, if they knew then it is premeditated as they knew the rounds were dangerous
 
"The SSG 12-gauge rounds, which contain pellets, were officially discontinued by the SA Police Service in 2006"

so who authorised the use of these? if it was allowed to be used then the blame should be directed at the police service for not collecting all rounds that were discontinued.
 
How is it the police had access to discontinued shotgun rounds in the first place?
 
Celine said:
"The SSG 12-gauge rounds, which contain pellets, were officially discontinued by the SA Police Service in 2006"

so who authorised the use of these? if it was allowed to be used then the blame should be directed at the police service for not collecting all rounds that were discontinued.
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bwana said:
How is it the police had access to discontinued shotgun rounds in the first place?
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It would have been sitting, as mentioned, in the armoury/storage safes.
Problem is, if you don't know the shotguns well, then you won't realise there's a difference between this blue cartridge and that one, or that green one and this red one.

How it didn't get removed back when, I have no idea.
Oh, and the SSG gives a mother of a kick. It's not quite a slug yet, but it's definitely not buckshot.
 
Garyvdh said:
He announced that 14 police officers -- six constables, six warrant officers and two lieutenants -- were facing disciplinary action.

"Six are already suspended, others are being served with their suspension notices."
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If that is what they were issued with then they are not to blame.
 
Responding to questions, Mthethwa said no "live" ammunition was used by police at the protest.

"I explained that there are rounds which are known as SSG, or 12-gauge rounds... which were not supposed to be used, but that's not live ammunition, it's mainly pellets."

Mthethwa said a police investigation had discovered these rounds were used.
http://www.timeslive.co.za/politics/2014/01/24/wrong-ammo-used-at-mothutlung-protest-mthethwa
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SSG will stop a charging lion; but ruin it as a trophy.

A mob of rioters (would-be killers) wielding rocks and other weapons deserves all it gets.

The small group of police were sent, inadequately prepared, out by SAPS management and cannot be blamed for defending themselves with the equipment issued to them.

The days leading up to the Marikana main event clearly showed how far strikers and "service protesters" are prepared to go and if the police had stood back it would have been at the expense of other innocent lives.
 
When, in real life, a institution fails the CEO and senior executives are normally booted.

Man up and fv(k off!
 
This is ma gun, I put this in, I press button :rolleyes:
 
And it must be really crappy when you're expecting rubber to come flying out your pipe and instead, you see chunks of lead flying out. Along with a rather big kick (SSG vs Rubber -> big difference in recoil).
 
froot said:
And it must be really crappy when you're expecting rubber to come flying out your pipe and instead, you see chunks of lead flying out. Along with a rather big kick (SSG vs Rubber -> big difference in recoil).
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Assumption is...

How could you not know what is it you are holding in your hands? Surely you should know the weapon, know the ammo or are these part of the 30% pass rate and job creation for Bros ?
 
The difference between SSG and AAA is not that great ,AAA is 32 balls of 32 caliber in a shot shell and SSG is 14 balls of 9mm in a shot shell more or less .
There is a slight difference in the size of the balls in the different size shot shells.
Obviously in the situation that they were used if AAA was used more people would have been wounded or dead due to the number of balls in the different shot shells.

AFAIK AAA is SAPS issue not SSG.

"The SSG 12-gauge rounds, which contain pellets, were officially discontinued by the SA Police Service in 2006, and were "not supposed to be used", he told reporters in Pretoria."

It is more about what he did not say than what he did say. He did not say bird shot or rubber cartridges were supposed to be used simply that SSG was used .
 
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