zOMG! When clients lose the plot...

[SmartKit]

We recently build a website for a telecommunications company. It was a fair effort and required major involvement from both us and the marketing division of the company.

A further request was made by an associate company for something similar. Until... a rather heated debate this week with regards to what defines web development.

The client is under the impression we are to write and create the copy of the website, after which we carefully explained that "Sir, we are not a telecommunications company, we are a web development company. We have no idea what you do!"

We were then instructed that we were to merely copy and paste the content from the first site we did (a competitor of this company). Never mind the fact that the businesses do not provide the same products but compete in a similar realm. We then had to explain that all content is copyrighted, as per the (c) at the bottom of the page an we could not legally or in good conscience do this.

This rather irked this client would explained he expected a more professional attitude, and he can't be expected to take the time to create content! He was then told us that he was assured that the extraction and copyright could be fulfilled by an associated resource: "Sir, we have never, nor will we ever do this so I do not know where you expectations came from. Once again we are not a telecommunications company and know nothing about the industry." :wtf:

Of course I could have been more emboldened and just said: "Dude, you try this s**t and you're gonna get your ass sued you dumb moron!"

 

[guest2013-1]

People like that... I don't know WHY they even want a website. Surely they have marketing material and spend money on advertisements right? But when you ask them to write content for their site, like an "About Us" or give you the content required to put on their site re: products they want, they go "But isn't that YOUR job?"

Well yes. Its "our job" (CMS???) but then it's defined in the contract that we're responsible for LOADING the content and that the client is responsible for GIVING US the content they want on there. You might as well just give them a design and fill it up with "Lorem Epsor" and go "there, finished, use the CMS"

Name+Shame the company dude. I want to know what company, in this day and age, would do this.

 

[Ancalagon]

This belongs in Not Always Right.

Can't be expected to take the time to create content? Ha ha ha! Well, tell him you can create the content for him, as long as he pays you for it and provides you access to his staff so you can understand his business.

 

[SmartKit]

This belongs in Not Always Right.

Can't be expected to take the time to create content? Ha ha ha! Well, tell him you can create the content for him, as long as he pays you for it and provides you access to his staff so you can understand his business.

Too true, and not always above board either!

Actually I think we did say something along those lines, but I doubt he would pay extra.

 

[The_Unbeliever]

lolwhut?

copy and paste?

Yeah riiiiiight.

 

[w1z4rd]

We have our own CMS we have built, and will load content onto the website... no worries... at R450 an hour.

 

[SmartKit]

People like that... I don't know WHY they even want a website. Surely they have marketing material and spend money on advertisements right? But when you ask them to write content for their site, like an "About Us" or give you the content required to put on their site re: products they want, they go "But isn't that YOUR job?"

Well yes. Its "our job" (CMS???) but then it's defined in the contract that we're responsible for LOADING the content and that the client is responsible for GIVING US the content they want on there. You might as well just give them a design and fill it up with "Lorem Epsor" and go "there, finished, use the CMS"

Name+Shame the company dude. I want to know what company, in this day and age, would do this.

That's true! What the hell did they do before all this?

"We contacted you because you designed the other website which is almost exactly the same as ourselves except we’ve been trading longer." Er, how?

Perhaps, if lost as a client (my recommendation was to return their deposit and run) I can name and shame. For now I have to see how this plays out.

 

[SmartKit]

We have our own CMS we have built, and will load content onto the website... no worries... at R450 an hour.

With the amount of stress I have to endure I should be upping my rates. Surely my sanity isn't worth the price per hour I charge right now? :wtf:

 

[w1z4rd]

With the amount of stress I have to endure I should be upping my rates. Surely my sanity isn't worth the price per hour I charge right now? :wtf:

Depends on how much you charge per hour Theres a direct correlation between how much discomfort someone is willing to endure and the amount they charge per hour

 

[SmartKit]

Depends on how much you charge per hour Theres a direct correlation between how much discomfort someone is willing to endure and the amount they charge per hour

You're right, I definitely need to double my fees

 

[icyrus]

I find that it is always best to explicitly state the scope of work and exclusions at the quote stage. Helps mitigate problems like this.

 

[SmartKit]

I find that it is always best to explicitly state the scope of work and exclusions at the quote stage. Helps mitigate problems like this.

I do feel it's kinda implied that we won't be doing anything illegal. There's only so much we can put in the exclusions before it becomes ridiculous:

"Yes, yes, that last exclusion clause. No, we won't be killing off your rival CEO and forcing their marketing manager at gun point to write you some copy. No, I understand it seems that logically we wouldn't do that, but you never know what some clients expect of us. Yes, stealing their server is also illegal, see exclusion point four."

 

[The_Unbeliever]

Depends on how much you charge per hour Theres a direct correlation between how much discomfort someone is willing to endure and the amount they charge per hour

You're right, I definitely need to double my fees

So, the cheaper you are, the easier it is for clients to abuse you?

Must keep that in mind definitely.

 

[SmartKit]

So, the cheaper you are, the easier it is for clients to abuse you?

Must keep that in mind definitely.

Seems the cheaper you are the more dubious your client base. Kinda like a cheap hooker.

 

[icyrus]

I do feel it's kinda implied that we won't be doing anything illegal. There's only so much we can put in the exclusions before it becomes ridiculous:

"Yes, yes, that last exclusion clause. No, we won't be killing off your rival CEO and forcing their marketing manager at gun point to write you some copy. No, I understand it seems that logically we wouldn't do that, but you never know what some clients expect of us. Yes, stealing their server is also illegal, see exclusion point four."

Understandable, but what I meant was that copy would have been initially clearly illustrated as the client's responsibility.

It is sad that this has to be explicitly stated but that is the reality we're in.

 

[w1z4rd]

So, the cheaper you are, the easier it is for clients to abuse you?

Its more like, the more you get paid, the less it feels like abuse

 

[guest2013-1]

I've reconsidered my original post. Here is what I think you should do:

Copy and Paste all the content from the other site as is. And I mean "as is". If there's a link pointing to the competitor's site, keep it there. If the competitor's name is used in the text, keep it there. If they're trading "longer" than their competitor, keep the competitor's "we've been in business since xxxx".

Clients like these won't notice until it's too late.

You have to make sure you have email evidence or something on paper from the client requesting to just copy and paste the content

If the client asks you to change something, tell them it will incur additional costs as you were just obeying their orders and since they never specified how much longer they've in business, you took their "copy/paste" as a sign that it was good enough. Use the "but you said to copy/paste whatever is on your competitor's site" as a reason if they notice the links/competitor's name in the text etc (even copy/paste any pricing on products if there's any, even if you know that they're cheaper or more expensive than the other guys). Again, if confronted with "These aren't our prices!" you go "You said to copy and paste from your competitor's site and refused to help us understand your business and what you sell and for how much, here's the proof you asked for it and this is what we delivered."

Once the client is sufficiently pissed off and refuses to pay (they all do) then just take the site down. If they pay the balance report them to the competitor and log a complaint with Google for copyright infringement and to take their site out of the index as it's a spam site and breaches their webmaster guidelines. (obviously, anonymously)