Culture and Democracy

nightjar

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A two-year-old KwaZulu-Natal boy is in a critical condition after his tongue and penis were cut off, police said on Monday.

He was found in eZimangweni in eNanda late last Wednesday after he disappeared while playing with his friends, Lieutenant Colonel Vincent Mdunge said.

No arrests had been made.

Police were investigating a case of assault with intent to do grievous bodily harm and appealed to local residents to come forward with information about the attack. - Sapa
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=nw20100719091752815C183802


What chance is there for democracy in SA when this barbarity is part of the culture?
 
What chance is there for democracy on earth when barbarity is part of human culture?
 
Muthi. He has a point as thats exactly what I see that assualt as. Luckily the kid managed to escape.

I didn't see anywhere the mention of Muthi in the news article. And if that's what you see the assault as, I'll throw my view and say it was a racist attack from whites. What chance is there for democracy in SA when this white racism is part of their culture?

It's fun to make up facts.
 
This child will never speak, will never be the man he was born to be, will never have a normal life.
The person who did this is a psychopath, but more, this is what evil is, an absolute disregard for life, in cases like this, only and eye for eye justice is any justice at all.

So sad, so cruel, this world tires me.
 
What does culture have to do with this?

Culture has everything to do with it.

I have lost count of the newspaper articles published since 1994 that describe witches killed, muti murders and botched bush circumcisions.

The fact that the toddler was found alive was pure accident and I think he would probably be better off had he died.

For your information, muti parts are always harvested while the victim is alive because the screams of agony are "pleasing to the spirits" and produce better results.

As far as I am aware, these crimes seldom get prosecuted and certainly never get a conviction because the authorities tacitly accept them as being part of the culture.

The same culture has elevated a murderous psychopath like Tshaka to the status of a king who seized by force everything within reach. This culture has been perpetuated by most in the ANC, all of whom are doing exactly the same in order to enrich themselves and build personal empires.

African culture and democracy are mutually exclusive and if you doubt me look to the north. If you still doubt that it is happening here just look at SAPS which has been turned into the enforcement arm of the ANC in exactly the same way as the KGB or Gestapo. The National Prosecuting Authority and Justice system are not far behind.
 
The same culture has elevated a murderous psychopath like Tshaka to the status of a king who seized by force everything within reach. This culture has been perpetuated by most in the ANC, all of whom are doing exactly the same in order to enrich themselves and build personal empires.

African culture and democracy are mutually exclusive and if you doubt me look to the north. If you still doubt that it is happening here just look at SAPS which has been turned into the enforcement arm of the ANC in exactly the same way as the KGB or Gestapo. The National Prosecuting Authority and Justice system are not far behind.

Because no other culture in the world had a group of people conquering the lands? Europeans never did no such thing, neither did the Japanese, just Shaka in the minute land he had in the Natal. What a psychopath.

Why is Zimbabwe brought into this? Did their country fail due to people getting killed for muthi? Since when were our policemen comparable to the Gestapo? HOW IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM FAILING? Don't throw random bullshi t without any factual information, mismatch with your own personal naive and constricted view on things and exaggerate everything to the point where your post is a joke in order to deliver the most fail polemic.

As for that, you tell me where our constitution allows murder for medicine and how that's intrinsic in ANC culture (yes I want you to give me a link where the ANC condoned it themselves).
If you can't, shut the fuk up and make two new threads on how backwards muthi and sangomayism is and another on how you hate the ANC. Because as far as I know, they are not interlinked.
 
Culture has everything to do with it.

And there are no facts about this case that links any of it to "culture". As far as you know, this could a mentally deranged woman to believes her husband talks to much and sleep around, being deranged might have triggered that this child was his bastard child and to get a sick sense of justice she mutilated the child.

I don't see how you can scream "culture!" when there is no evidence for it?
 
In one corner you have people linking Muti to the subject without any proof it and in the other corner you have people side stepping the Muti issue by pointing out the lack of linkage the specific incedent in question. MyBB's finest debaters at work here :)

How about you feel sorry for the poor kid here and open a separate thread for Muti? After all, it is a current affair. Muti killings are on the rise in KZN in 2010 according to Wikipedia.
 
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How about you feek sorry for the poor kid here

If you pay close attention to the starting post, you'll see that the intentions of nightjar is to link culture to the [apparent] lack of democracy, this topic had nothing to do with feeling sorry for the child.
 
A two-year-old KwaZulu-Natal boy is in a critical condition after his tongue and penis were cut off, police said on Monday.

He was found in eZimangweni in eNanda late last Wednesday after he disappeared while playing with his friends, Lieutenant Colonel Vincent Mdunge said.

No arrests had been made.

Police were investigating a case of assault with intent to do grievous bodily harm and appealed to local residents to come forward with information about the attack. - Sapa
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=nw20100719091752815C183802


What chance is there for democracy in SA when this barbarity is part of the culture?

Where on earth does a political form of goverment have links to cultural beliefs? Not to defend what happened to that boy, but making a statement like that WILL piss people off, so perhaps you need to think rationally about the things you post?

Or perhaps your agenda was more along the lines of, "Africans are savages/barbarians/heathens/etc and must be ruled and NOT be allowed to have a say in government!"...
 
African culture and democracy are mutually exclusive and if you doubt me look to the north. If you still doubt that it is happening here just look at SAPS which has been turned into the enforcement arm of the ANC in exactly the same way as the KGB or Gestapo. The National Prosecuting Authority and Justice system are not far behind.
So what you're saying is that the Europeans are a bad influence. That KGB and Gestapo stuff must be their culture.
 
It is quite obvious that "Western" culture and "African" culture place the emphasis on different issues. (I am of course generalising to a certain extent when I refer to these two cultures, simply because it is needed for the sake of the argument.)

The same goes for the difference between "Western" culture and "Asian" or "Eastern" culture.

I was brought up in a house that followed typical Western ways of thinking. In this culture, the height of success is independence. Financial independence, emotional independence, etc.

Generally speaking, in Western culture, when you're approx. 18 or 20 yrs old, you leave the house to go study, or get a job or travel the world or start your own business.

You are considered to be successful if you manage to hold down a job, get property of your own, and start your own life seperate from your parents. THAT is success in Western culture - independence.

In other cultures, family and support networks play a more important role and in some families up to 3 generations live together under one roof, sharing income and responsibilities and supporting each other.

I would never be able to live like that, simply because of how I was raised.

In my opinion, Western culture places much more emphasis on the individual and her rights and it is therefore much easier for someone to fit into a rights-based society like ours if you understand Western culture.
 
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group of people conquering the lands? Europeans never did no such thing neither did the Japanese, just Shaka in the minute land he had in the Natal. What a psychopath.

Why is Zimbabwe brought into this?

Since when were our policemen comparable to the Gestapo?

HOW IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM FAILING?

Don't throw random bullshi t without any factual information, mismatch with your own personal naive and constricted view on things and exaggerate everything to the point where your post is a joke in order to deliver the most fail polemic.

As for that, you tell me where our constitution allows murder for medicine

and how that's intrinsic in ANC culture (yes I want you to give me a link where the ANC condoned it themselves).

If you can't, shut the fuk up and make two new threads on how backwards muthi and sangomayism is and another on how you hate the ANC. Because as far as I know, they are not interlinked. .

RE. Don't throw random bullshi t / If you can't, shut the fuk up
Descending to insults shows that you have no confidence in your own rants.

RE. group of people conquering etc, etc
Praising Hitler publicly in Germany will get a person jailed.
Stalin is no longer the hero he was in Russia.

RE. Why is Zimbabwe.....
I never mentioned Zimbabwe but since you raise the subject it has lessons for all South Africans. Murderous dictators like Mugabe and Teodoro Obiang Nguema Mbasogo (Equatorial Guinea) have enjoyed the unwavering support of the South African (ANC) government.

RE. Since when were our policemen comparable to the Gestapo?
Don't you read the papers?
Blue Light brigade thugs
Any policeman in a uniform is a law unto himself http://www.news24.com/MyNews24/Letters/Ive-lost-respect-for-cops-20100716#
Most of the senior ranks have been replaced by uneducated party loyalists who can be counted on to obey orders from Luthuli House.
Many members are convicted rapists, armed robbers and murderers but their loyalty is to the party.

RE. HOW IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM FAILING?
You must be blind to even ask the question.
JZ escaped his day in court while his convicted partner in crime spent a few months in a prison hospital before giving the Vaseline finger to the justice system.
Corrupt Tony Yengeni was carried into jail on the shoulders of senior ANC members. When he later broke his parole conditions a SAPS station commander fiddled the evidence to destroy the case. That officer officially lost his job but watch him get rewarded (out of the public purse) a few months down the line.
Justice was not served in the case of Alan Boesak either.
What's the betting that Selebi will serve a similar sentence to Shabir Shaik - possibly because he also knows a lot of dirt that the mob would prefer kept hidden.
Don't forget that there are thousands of cases where prisoners (mostly black) have been in jail without trial for years because dockets are lost, witnesses don't turn up and there are endless court postponements. Nobody gives a toss about them because they are not connected.

RE. mismatch with your own personal naive and constricted view on things and exaggerate everything to the point where your post is a joke in order to deliver the most fail polemic.
I have no idea what you are trying to say here and I suspect that you don't know either. You just like big words.

RE. where our constitution allows murder for medicine and how that's intrinsic in ANC culture (yes I want you to give me a link where the ANC condoned it themselves).
It is a reasonable assumption that because muti murders NEVER result in prosecutions the police, as the enforcement arm of the ANC, do not regard them as serious.

Democracy as in "Western" culture took hundreds of years to evolve to its present state and in the process both England and America were torn apart by civil wars. The chief in "African" culture has always been the boss and anyone who disagreed ended up being killed and that philosophy still prevails. Read up on Quattro Camp and other ANC camps to see how dissidents were treated prior to 1994. Very little has changed now.

In all African countries culture dictates that the CHIEF has first pick of the loot and lower down the chain the lesser chiefs grab what they can. Look at the extravagance with cars, parties (food & booze type) five star hotels and soccer tickets to list the most obvious.

In the last sixteen years the word “culture” has been rammed down our throats ad nauseum and anyone who criticized it was branded a racist. Too bad that people are unable to face the facts of life.

For thousands of years African culture has done nothing for Africa and unless Africans discard all the useless baggage nothing will change.
 
RE. Don't throw random bullshi t / If you can't, shut the fuk up
Descending to insults shows that you have no confidence in your own rants.

RE. group of people conquering etc, etc
Praising Hitler publicly in Germany will get a person jailed.
Stalin is no longer the hero he was in Russia.

RE. Why is Zimbabwe.....
I never mentioned Zimbabwe but since you raise the subject it has lessons for all South Africans. Murderous dictators like Mugabe and Teodoro Obiang Nguema Mbasogo (Equatorial Guinea) have enjoyed the unwavering support of the South African (ANC) government.

RE. Since when were our policemen comparable to the Gestapo?
Don't you read the papers?
Blue Light brigade thugs
Any policeman in a uniform is a law unto himself http://www.news24.com/MyNews24/Letters/Ive-lost-respect-for-cops-20100716#
Most of the senior ranks have been replaced by uneducated party loyalists who can be counted on to obey orders from Luthuli House.
Many members are convicted rapists, armed robbers and murderers but their loyalty is to the party.

RE. HOW IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM FAILING?
You must be blind to even ask the question.
JZ escaped his day in court while his convicted partner in crime spent a few months in a prison hospital before giving the Vaseline finger to the justice system.
Corrupt Tony Yengeni was carried into jail on the shoulders of senior ANC members. When he later broke his parole conditions a SAPS station commander fiddled the evidence to destroy the case. That officer officially lost his job but watch him get rewarded (out of the public purse) a few months down the line.
Justice was not served in the case of Alan Boesak either.
What's the betting that Selebi will serve a similar sentence to Shabir Shaik - possibly because he also knows a lot of dirt that the mob would prefer kept hidden.
Don't forget that there are thousands of cases where prisoners (mostly black) have been in jail without trial for years because dockets are lost, witnesses don't turn up and there are endless court postponements. Nobody gives a toss about them because they are not connected.

RE. mismatch with your own personal naive and constricted view on things and exaggerate everything to the point where your post is a joke in order to deliver the most fail polemic.
I have no idea what you are trying to say here and I suspect that you don't know either. You just like big words.

RE. where our constitution allows murder for medicine and how that's intrinsic in ANC culture (yes I want you to give me a link where the ANC condoned it themselves).
It is a reasonable assumption that because muti murders NEVER result in prosecutions the police, as the enforcement arm of the ANC, do not regard them as serious.

Democracy as in "Western" culture took hundreds of years to evolve to its present state and in the process both England and America were torn apart by civil wars. The chief in "African" culture has always been the boss and anyone who disagreed ended up being killed and that philosophy still prevails. Read up on Quattro Camp and other ANC camps to see how dissidents were treated prior to 1994. Very little has changed now.

In all African countries culture dictates that the CHIEF has first pick of the loot and lower down the chain the lesser chiefs grab what they can. Look at the extravagance with cars, parties (food & booze type) five star hotels and soccer tickets to list the most obvious.

In the last sixteen years the word “culture” has been rammed down our throats ad nauseum and anyone who criticized it was branded a racist. Too bad that people are unable to face the facts of life.

For thousands of years African culture has done nothing for Africa and unless Africans discard all the useless baggage nothing will change.

nice article. :)

but sooner or later, you will be classified as, "right wing", "racist", "mykkk", "whitey", "want SA fail", "traitor" ..... etc :D

watch out! :eek:
 
I didn't see anywhere the mention of Muthi in the news article. And if that's what you see the assault as, I'll throw my view and say it was a racist attack from whites. What chance is there for democracy in SA when this white racism is part of their culture?

It's fun to make up facts.

Indeed it is, especially if you can't think for yourself. The removal of genitalia and other body parts are generally for muti ( spelling? ) purposes. So I made an observation based on the evidence of the mutilation of the child and which specific body parts were removed.

But if you want to make it up, ignore facts and prior similar killings, go right ahead. I hear ostrich meat is tasty too.
 
RE. Don't throw random bullshi t / If you can't, shut the fuk up
Descending to insults shows that you have no confidence in your own rants.

I have confidence you're a douche. Care for a rebuttal?

RE. group of people conquering etc, etc
Praising Hitler publicly in Germany will get a person jailed.
Stalin is no longer the hero he was in Russia.

And you're comparing Stalin and Hitler to the ANC (your argument "The same culture has elevated a murderous psychopath like Tshaka"). Do you not see why I cannot take you seriously. We shall go down for more reasons why I can't.


RE. Why is Zimbabwe.....
I never mentioned Zimbabwe but since you raise the subject it has lessons for all South Africans. Murderous dictators like Mugabe and Teodoro Obiang Nguema Mbasogo (Equatorial Guinea) have enjoyed the unwavering support of the South African (ANC) government.

You said, look to the north. "Look to our neighbours up north" is what many people say when they compare us with Zimbabwe. And again, we never had leaders like Mugabe, and I doubt we ever will. You're probably one of those people who predicated South Africa's doom after Mandela, Mbeki, Zuma. The difference between South Africa and the rest of Africa is that we didn't have those bloodthirsty dictators after the minority gave up power.

RE. Since when were our policemen comparable to the Gestapo?
Don't you read the papers?
Blue Light brigade thugs
Any policeman in a uniform is a law unto himself http://www.news24.com/MyNews24/Letters/Ive-lost-respect-for-cops-20100716#
Most of the senior ranks have been replaced by uneducated party loyalists who can be counted on to obey orders from Luthuli House.
Many members are convicted rapists, armed robbers and murderers but their loyalty is to the party.

Are you an idiot? Are you retarded? DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT THE GESTAPO DID? Have you heard of the Nuremberg Trials? And because we have, blue light brigades, of ALL THINGS, we are now comparable to one of the most violent and oppressive government forces in modern history? As I said above, I cannot take you seriously. You are shrouded by ignorance, and you quote a person's personal experience where the Pretoria chief was "unhelpful" as a source of such atrocities? I understand you are an under achiever and naive so you claim that our police are rapists and armed robbers and murders, please go down to the station and ask any of them if this is true.

Again. You dumbass.

RE. HOW IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM FAILING?
You must be blind to even ask the question.
JZ escaped his day in court while his convicted partner in crime spent a few months in a prison hospital before giving the Vaseline finger to the justice system.
Corrupt Tony Yengeni was carried into jail on the shoulders of senior ANC members. When he later broke his parole conditions a SAPS station commander fiddled the evidence to destroy the case. That officer officially lost his job but watch him get rewarded (out of the public purse) a few months down the line.

Justice was not served in the case of Alan Boesak either.
What's the betting that Selebi will serve a similar sentence to Shabir Shaik - possibly because he also knows a lot of dirt that the mob would prefer kept hidden.
Don't forget that there are thousands of cases where prisoners (mostly black) have been in jail without trial for years because dockets are lost, witnesses don't turn up and there are endless court postponements. Nobody gives a toss about them because they are not connected.

Shabir Shaik, Tony, Agliotti, Selebi, all of them... Guilty. JZ is the one I know who got off scot free but we cannot prove that he is guilty (although there is no doubt in my mind he is). Our courts are separated from the state, the NPA has freedom and isn't tampered with. The failed African states? The courts are pretty much aligned with the government, that's the point I'm making. That's why international journalists and overseers compliment South Africa as being different. If there is one thing that hasn't been corrupted, its our courts..

RE. mismatch with your own personal naive and constricted view on things and exaggerate everything to the point where your post is a joke in order to deliver the most fail polemic.
I have no idea what you are trying to say here and I suspect that you don't know either. You just like big words.

You're joking. You can't use a dictionary? The only "big word" I see there is polemic, shame if you don't understand it and too dumb to google. Look, go google all those big words that you can't comprehend and come back. Because I'll stick to what I said above. You have your narrow views and exaggerate.

RE. where our constitution allows murder for medicine and how that's intrinsic in ANC culture (yes I want you to give me a link where the ANC condoned it themselves).
It is a reasonable assumption that because muti murders NEVER result in prosecutions the police, as the enforcement arm of the ANC, do not regard them as serious.

I'm not joking. Give me proof of a case where a muti murder was tossed out because the "ANC enforcement arm" didn't regard it as serious. Give me even ONE. Go boy, go!

Democracy as in "Western" culture took hundreds of years to evolve to its present state and in the process both England and America were torn apart by civil wars. The chief in "African" culture has always been the boss and anyone who disagreed ended up being killed and that philosophy still prevails. Read up on Quattro Camp and other ANC camps to see how dissidents were treated prior to 1994. Very little has changed now.

In all African countries culture dictates that the CHIEF has first pick of the loot and lower down the chain the lesser chiefs grab what they can. Look at the extravagance with cars, parties (food & booze type) five star hotels and soccer tickets to list the most obvious.

In the last sixteen years the word “culture” has been rammed down our throats ad nauseum and anyone who criticized it was branded a racist. Too bad that people are unable to face the facts of life.

For thousands of years African culture has done nothing for Africa and unless Africans discard all the useless baggage nothing will change.

What was the point of the quoted above? :confused:

Your argument was that we cannot have a democracy with the culture we have here...
So we are not a democracy? Huh?

Nevermind extravagant unnecessary lifestyles, we know the ANC wastes money, but this somehow stops democracy? This takes away my right to vote? What are you on about?
 
And there are no facts about this case that links any of it to "culture". As far as you know, this could a mentally deranged woman to believes her husband talks to much and sleep around, being deranged might have triggered that this child was his bastard child and to get a sick sense of justice she mutilated the child.

I don't see how you can scream "culture!" when there is no evidence for it?

What about raping young virgins as protection against various issues including aids?
 
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